I hate Compass Airlines
Jan 2, 2009, 11:42 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lewis & Clark
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I hate Compass Airlines
Bleh.
/rant_on
Some time ago NWA downgraded my home airport (MSO). We lost our airbus service and got the E175 instead (no additional flights, which means a fair number of seats lost). We also lost NWA and got Compass instead.
Apparently Compass has a bargain-basement operating certificate acquired from some bankrupt east coast carrier. With that operating certificate come some flight restrictions, so even though every other airline can land here in the winter (Horizon, TED, Sky West, even Allegiant), good ol' Compass can't.
Approx half the Compass flights MSP-MSO have been diverted during the last two weeks. The passengers get treated to a 3-4 hour bus ride to MSO, and the plane just flies back to MSP. That means the return MSO-MSP flight has simply been canceled. Naturally this is the most delightful time of the year to travel anyway, but having to try to manage business travel in this charlie foxtrot has been maddening.
I certainly hope this has cost NWA a lot of money re-accommodating pax.
/rant-off
I guess I'll have to switch to Alaska.
/rant_on
Some time ago NWA downgraded my home airport (MSO). We lost our airbus service and got the E175 instead (no additional flights, which means a fair number of seats lost). We also lost NWA and got Compass instead.
Apparently Compass has a bargain-basement operating certificate acquired from some bankrupt east coast carrier. With that operating certificate come some flight restrictions, so even though every other airline can land here in the winter (Horizon, TED, Sky West, even Allegiant), good ol' Compass can't.
Approx half the Compass flights MSP-MSO have been diverted during the last two weeks. The passengers get treated to a 3-4 hour bus ride to MSO, and the plane just flies back to MSP. That means the return MSO-MSP flight has simply been canceled. Naturally this is the most delightful time of the year to travel anyway, but having to try to manage business travel in this charlie foxtrot has been maddening.
I certainly hope this has cost NWA a lot of money re-accommodating pax.
/rant-off
I guess I'll have to switch to Alaska.
Jan 2, 2009, 11:47 am
#2
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Location: MSP
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Can you elaborate about the flight restrictions?
Is it possible that they just aren't yet certified for reduced landing minimums? That's something that's going to happen anytime you have aircraft new to a company and crew new to a type.
Is it possible that they just aren't yet certified for reduced landing minimums? That's something that's going to happen anytime you have aircraft new to a company and crew new to a type.
Jan 2, 2009, 12:52 pm
#3
Original Poster
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Compass has been flying the E175 into MSO for probably 18 months at this point. So I'm not so sure that counts as "new." It's just maddening that the other airlines all manage to land here in the snow..... Bigger plane, and smaller ones....
LOL it's Montana. Surely they knew we had mountains and snow :-)
Jan 2, 2009, 3:00 pm
#4
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: CONUS
Posts: 947
Where do the diversions go? FCA, GEG?
Jan 2, 2009, 3:02 pm
#5
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FCA. They used to go to Great Falls but now it's Kalispell.
Jan 2, 2009, 7:12 pm
#6
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: National Capitol Region
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Posts: 3,912
My Compass flight into MSP was diverted as well - 6 hours on an ER-175 , woo-hoo 
Jan 2, 2009, 7:19 pm
#7
Join Date: Jun 2007
Programs: National ES
Posts: 176
I had a Compass FA tell me they don't serve a beverage (just juice or water) on DTW-SDF because there is no time to serve 76 people in an hour. I said that's funny a DC9 with 24 more people manages it somehow with the same number of FA's 2!
They are unimpressive.
They are unimpressive.
Jan 2, 2009, 7:46 pm
#8
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: CONUS
Posts: 947
Independence Air/Atlantic Coast
Compass operates using the old Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines operating certificate. Northwest bought the FAA operating certificate from the bankruptcy court for a few million dollars. This is why Compass' first aircraft was a CRJ-200. Their headquarters are in the same location as Independence Air, until Delta relocates the DL Connx carriers to MSP.
Bleh.
/rant_on
Some time ago NWA downgraded my home airport (MSO). We lost our airbus service and got the E175 instead (no additional flights, which means a fair number of seats lost). We also lost NWA and got Compass instead.
Apparently Compass has a bargain-basement operating certificate acquired from some bankrupt east coast carrier. With that operating certificate come some flight restrictions, so even though every other airline can land here in the winter (Horizon, TED, Sky West, even Allegiant), good ol' Compass can't.
Approx half the Compass flights MSP-MSO have been diverted during the last two weeks. The passengers get treated to a 3-4 hour bus ride to MSO, and the plane just flies back to MSP. That means the return MSO-MSP flight has simply been canceled. Naturally this is the most delightful time of the year to travel anyway, but having to try to manage business travel in this charlie foxtrot has been maddening.
I certainly hope this has cost NWA a lot of money re-accommodating pax.
/rant-off
I guess I'll have to switch to Alaska.
/rant_on
Some time ago NWA downgraded my home airport (MSO). We lost our airbus service and got the E175 instead (no additional flights, which means a fair number of seats lost). We also lost NWA and got Compass instead.
Apparently Compass has a bargain-basement operating certificate acquired from some bankrupt east coast carrier. With that operating certificate come some flight restrictions, so even though every other airline can land here in the winter (Horizon, TED, Sky West, even Allegiant), good ol' Compass can't.
Approx half the Compass flights MSP-MSO have been diverted during the last two weeks. The passengers get treated to a 3-4 hour bus ride to MSO, and the plane just flies back to MSP. That means the return MSO-MSP flight has simply been canceled. Naturally this is the most delightful time of the year to travel anyway, but having to try to manage business travel in this charlie foxtrot has been maddening.
I certainly hope this has cost NWA a lot of money re-accommodating pax.
/rant-off
I guess I'll have to switch to Alaska.
Jan 2, 2009, 10:31 pm
#9
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Definitely sounds like either Compass's flight crews aren't certified for certain types of approaches in certain types of weather, or the E-Jets lack the avionics to handle them. I suggest reading this for edification:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrum...ILS_categories
To my knowledge, it has absolutely nothing to do with the operating certificate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrum...ILS_categories
To my knowledge, it has absolutely nothing to do with the operating certificate.
Jan 3, 2009, 9:36 am
#10
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ATL
Posts: 406
Sounds to me that Compass does not have the training/procedures developed to fly a GPS/RNAV (area navigation) approach into MSO. The standard approach to MSO is the Instrument Landing System (ILS) which requires at least 5 miles of visibility. A GPS/RNAV approach would allow for lower minimums.
I am not sure about other airlines at MSO. These types of approaches require the development of specific procedures and training and then need to be approved by the FAA.
I am not sure about other airlines at MSO. These types of approaches require the development of specific procedures and training and then need to be approved by the FAA.
Jan 3, 2009, 11:05 am
#11
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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Sounds to me that Compass does not have the training/procedures developed to fly a GPS/RNAV (area navigation) approach into MSO. The standard approach to MSO is the Instrument Landing System (ILS) which requires at least 5 miles of visibility. A GPS/RNAV approach would allow for lower minimums.
I am not sure about other airlines at MSO. These types of approaches require the development of specific procedures and training and then need to be approved by the FAA.
I am not sure about other airlines at MSO. These types of approaches require the development of specific procedures and training and then need to be approved by the FAA.
The other airlines at MSO all have some sort of "exception" (according to the local rag) that allows them to land in lower minimums. The old NWA service (on the airbus) also had this exception. So when NWA switched the service to Compass, they KNEW they would run into this issue. They clearly don't care.
Jan 3, 2009, 11:44 am
#12
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,575
Rant on:
Another flier with only part of the story drawing broad and inaccurate conclusions.
Rant off.
Another flier with only part of the story drawing broad and inaccurate conclusions.
Rant off.
Jan 3, 2009, 12:15 pm
#13
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Jan 3, 2009, 1:37 pm
#14
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MSP
Posts: 9
Hi All,
I thought I maybe could shed some light on the situation about MSO. I am a pilot for Compass Airlines. First off, I am really sorry that the service hasn't been what you have come to expect or deserve.
For those of you who aren't familiar with MSO, mountains surround the area. Because of this there, the approaches going into that airport don't allow you to descend as low without having the airport in sight. Someone mentioned we aren't qualified to do some approaches, that's partially true but not entirely. Without going into too much boring detail, we are fully qualified to perform the GPS approaches that were mentioned above, but MSO's GPS approaches don't allow us or any other airline to descend as low as many other airports. One poster linked to Wikipedia with references to the category of ILS approach that we are allowed to do. That is true we are not approve to do Category II or III approaches, but MSO does not have those type of approaches so that is not the issue here. (Those types of ILS approaches are for very low visibility and the airline is currently in the process of being certified to do those types of approaches). In this case, there is a normal ILS which does have very high minimums and then there is another special ILS approach that has normal ILS minimums. In order to do the special ILS you need special approval from the FAA. We are having a hard time getting that approval, it does not have anything to do with Compass though. Any other airline that would attempt to get approval to do that special ILS at this point would not have an easy time. Every other airline that has been flying in there or has in the past and then starts again is basically grandfathered in. That may not make much sense, but anyone who has dealt with a government agency knows that progress can be slow moving and may not make much sense at times.
I'm really sorry for the frustration, the flight crews are equally as frustrated I can assure you. This explanation may not reassure you of the quality of the airline that is Compass, but operating certificates do not come in a variety of qualities and we are certainly not bottom basement, not in my opinion anyway. I do hope that you give Compass another shot, we are all pretty proud of our little airline. I don't blame you though if you choose to go elsewhere until we do get that approval.
As for Jake, to my knowledge they should at least be handing out juice and water. I would write in a complaint about that. I'm sorry that that was your experience with Compass Airlines. I realize that with a thread title of "I hate Compass Airlines" it's going to attract complaint posts about the airline, but like I said about please try to give it another chance I can all but promise that next time your experience will be better.
I thought I maybe could shed some light on the situation about MSO. I am a pilot for Compass Airlines. First off, I am really sorry that the service hasn't been what you have come to expect or deserve.
For those of you who aren't familiar with MSO, mountains surround the area. Because of this there, the approaches going into that airport don't allow you to descend as low without having the airport in sight. Someone mentioned we aren't qualified to do some approaches, that's partially true but not entirely. Without going into too much boring detail, we are fully qualified to perform the GPS approaches that were mentioned above, but MSO's GPS approaches don't allow us or any other airline to descend as low as many other airports. One poster linked to Wikipedia with references to the category of ILS approach that we are allowed to do. That is true we are not approve to do Category II or III approaches, but MSO does not have those type of approaches so that is not the issue here. (Those types of ILS approaches are for very low visibility and the airline is currently in the process of being certified to do those types of approaches). In this case, there is a normal ILS which does have very high minimums and then there is another special ILS approach that has normal ILS minimums. In order to do the special ILS you need special approval from the FAA. We are having a hard time getting that approval, it does not have anything to do with Compass though. Any other airline that would attempt to get approval to do that special ILS at this point would not have an easy time. Every other airline that has been flying in there or has in the past and then starts again is basically grandfathered in. That may not make much sense, but anyone who has dealt with a government agency knows that progress can be slow moving and may not make much sense at times.
I'm really sorry for the frustration, the flight crews are equally as frustrated I can assure you. This explanation may not reassure you of the quality of the airline that is Compass, but operating certificates do not come in a variety of qualities and we are certainly not bottom basement, not in my opinion anyway. I do hope that you give Compass another shot, we are all pretty proud of our little airline. I don't blame you though if you choose to go elsewhere until we do get that approval.
As for Jake, to my knowledge they should at least be handing out juice and water. I would write in a complaint about that. I'm sorry that that was your experience with Compass Airlines. I realize that with a thread title of "I hate Compass Airlines" it's going to attract complaint posts about the airline, but like I said about please try to give it another chance I can all but promise that next time your experience will be better.
Jan 3, 2009, 2:06 pm
#15
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In this case, there is a normal ILS which does have very high minimums and then there is another special ILS approach that has normal ILS minimums. In order to do the special ILS you need special approval from the FAA. We are having a hard time getting that approval, it does not have anything to do with Compass though. Any other airline that would attempt to get approval to do that special ILS at this point would not have an easy time. Every other airline that has been flying in there or has in the past and then starts again is basically grandfathered in. That may not make much sense, but anyone who has dealt with a government agency knows that progress can be slow moving and may not make much sense at times.
Good to hear it from the horse's mouth! And thanks for correcting my ILS guess.
