Yeah...I can see how adding actual value to a conversation is so painful.
Quoting something without a citation is plagarism. You really should try to avoid that.
When caught propagating myth(s), the recourse seems to be to put up diversionary smoke and mirrors.
Adding actual value comes by contributing facts from federal law and regulation and mentioning a specific airline's policy since 1987. That is apparently not as easy for everyone as practicing plagiarism and the art of the shill.
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This game is not as much fun as it used to be: 2008/2009 Frequent Flyer Program Fleecing Award goes to Delta Airlines
Airline enforcement of the 2 item rule is a prime if not the prime key to improving the situation.
To go back to a suggestion I made on this board a while back, modified for a subsequent response: when checking in at the airport and receiving the boarding pass, pax are issued one overhead bag tag (2 for those in bulkhead seats with no floor storage or in F). The tag would be color coded, which would change daily, would show the date and flight number, and must be visible on the bag from the aisle. When bins started to get full, the FA would go down the aisle pulling bags out that did not have the tag for that flight until sufficient space was created. If people did not claim their bags and put them by their feet, they bags would then be removed from the cabin and checked to the next destination.
Harsh? possibly. Might it PO bin hogs who believe they are entitled to space for whatever they can physically carry and roll on the plane? probably. Would it encourage people to place their bags in bins close to their seats, so that they could watch to make sure the bags with the special tage were not removed and checked? I think so. Will it solve the problem on full flights with large number of coats, etc.? Probably not, though I think it would make the problem rarer.
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Anakin:If you are not with me, you are against me.
Obi-Wan:Only Sith deal in absolutes. The truth is never black and white.
K. Not the exempt items or/and seat baggage with you PAY FOR.
It's amusing to see the attempt to dismiss the paid cabin baggage aspect of the discussion when that aspect is but one of several that goes to show that -- even since 1987 -- taking on board more than your self-supposed "federal mandate" "limit" of "one carry on + one personal item" has occurred. It has occurred and continues to occur without running foul of the airline cabin baggage program on file with the FAA.
Whatever your issue with the paid cabin baggage program, note that if the airlines scrapped the checked baggage fee on at least one bag and instead started charging for cabin baggage, then there would be less "fight for the overheads". Isn't that what you want?
"One carry on + one personal item" are exempted from being checked in as luggage on many US airlines' flights, but those aren't the only items that are exempted from being checked in on many US airlines' flights. You can continue to pick and choose the exemptions you favor and those exemptions which you wish to ignore or see discarded but it won't change the standing reality that there is no federal mandate requiring all US airlines to have a "one carry on + one personal item" policy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRRed
Airline enforcement of the 2 item rule is a prime if not the prime key to improving the situation.
Each airline is within its right to enforce whatever airline carry-on baggage program the airline has filed with the FAA. There is nothing in federal law or regulations to stop an airline from having a "1 item rule" for carry-on baggage and then charging bigger sums of money for most additional carry-on baggage than is charged even for checked baggage. This would do even more to reduce the fighting over overheads than what you suggest above were the airline able to consistently deliver on its commitments.
That an airline -- or at least some to many employees of the airline -- fails to deliver on the airline's commitments to abide by the airline's own carry-on baggage program (as filed with the FAA) is all a product of airline management and other airline employees. The issue with airline management and airline employees not performing up to their own marketed commitments isn't going away anytime soon. Toss in increasing checked luggage fees and this mess still has room to get worse.
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This game is not as much fun as it used to be: 2008/2009 Frequent Flyer Program Fleecing Award goes to Delta Airlines
I was not intending to enter into the earlier debate as to whether common stated restriction of 2 carry-ons per person was government imposed or carrier determined when I used the word "rule." Possibly I should have been a little clearer that I could see either as being considered a "rule."
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Anakin:If you are not with me, you are against me.
Obi-Wan:Only Sith deal in absolutes. The truth is never black and white.
A cut and paste is what the overwhelming majority of that post of his seems to be. Without attributing the cut and paste to any source, doesn't it seem like an act of a plagiarist and/or the act of an AFA shill?
It is a direct quote from AFA materials. Link here:
Without voicing an opinion on the content, it is somewhat misleading (to use the mildest words I can think of) to post such an extensive copy without giving the source.
A cut and paste is what the overwhelming majority of that post of his seems to be. Without attributing the cut and paste to any source, doesn't it seem like an act of a plagiarist and/or the act of an AFA shill?
It is a direct quote from AFA materials. Link here:
Without voicing an opinion on the content, it is somewhat misleading (to use the mildest words I can think of) to post such an extensive copy without giving the source.
That seems a lot like two birds being hit with one stone!
Thanks.
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This game is not as much fun as it used to be: 2008/2009 Frequent Flyer Program Fleecing Award goes to Delta Airlines
You claimed that the FAA's current guidelines for carry-on baggage is two decades old. You provided that myth and I exposed it as a myth. The FAA's current carry-on baggage guidelines are nowhere close to two decades old. Your 1987 "federal mandate" of "one carry one + one personal item" was cancelled over a decade ago.
You seem to believe that the FAA has a uniform carry-on baggage "federal mandate" of "one carry on + one personal item" which is the same across all US airlines and that the carry-on baggage "federal mandate" of "one carry on + one personal item" has been the same since 1987. Your provided that myth and I exposed it as a myth too.
Apparently ENGLISH is not your first language. the ORIGINAL Baggage LIMITS CAME INTO EFFECT IN 1987. I showed YOU the AFA link. Yes, it's been changed since. It got stricter. The one and one personal item became effective in 2001. I showed YOU the NYTimes article.
anyway, I KNOW what is enforced at the gates. I invite YOU to try and come onboard with MORE then one carry on and a personal item, I'll gladly QUOTE YOU THAT MYTH and TAG your bag (unless you bought a seat for it).
Or if you're flying an express carrier with has stricter guidelines for carry on bags.
anyway, I'll leave you to your OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE behavior of being right and sitting on this board ALL DAY LONG.
Not like that, but then again ignoring facts that are inconvenient seems to come easier to some than to others. I cannot help but note how you ignored the context in which that was posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC96
Apparently ENGLISH is not your first language.
You are wrong about that too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC96
the ORIGINAL Baggage LIMITS CAME INTO EFFECT IN 1987. I showed YOU the AFA link. Yes, it's been changed since. It got stricter. The one and one personal item became effective in 2001. I showed YOU the NYTimes article.
The original carry-on baggage limits in play in the US came into effect long before 1987 and they too were an airline-established limit on carry-ons rather than an FAA limit.
You claimed that the current carry-on baggage "limit" of "one carry on + one personal item" came into effect in 1987 and is a federal mandate. That's incorrect as the 1987 rules were subjected to cancellation and as the federal government does not currently have a mandate that requires all US airlines to limit carry on items to your "one carry on + one personal item".
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC96
anyway, I KNOW what is enforced at the gates.
Is that like what you believed you knew about a "current" "federal mandate" being two decades old but which doesn't exist in federal law or regulations?
Each airline has its own cabin baggage program on file with the FAA. That airline cabin baggage program on file with the FAA is what the airline is to follow. It's not consistently enforced at the gate regardless of what you wish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC96
I invite YOU to try and come onboard with MORE then one carry on and a personal item, I'll gladly QUOTE YOU THAT MYTH and TAG your bag (unless you bought a seat for it).
Every year for at least your two decades I have brought more than "one carry on and a personal item" onto the planes -- generally done so without resorting to the paid cabin baggage aspect of an airline. When I've done so, US airline employees at the gate have generally not created a fuss about it like you seem to want to do. Then again most gate agents don't generally go around trying to propagate myths in wishful anticipation that every passenger is going to accept everything out of their mouth as being law, regulation or even company policy when unable to cite properly the actual law, regulation or even company policy that they are supposedly enforcing.
What is apparent is that not everyone cares equally about actual laws, regulations and/or even company policies. Those who care less about actual facts will continue to propagate myths more than others.
Carry on believing what you will, but I doubt that you'll ever be tagging my carry-on bags.
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This game is not as much fun as it used to be: 2008/2009 Frequent Flyer Program Fleecing Award goes to Delta Airlines
