Nugget_Oz

Even though GCT announces the platforms earlier one is still not allowed onto the platform until incoming passengers have disembarked. The main reason is that the hall at Penn is miniscule and doesn't allow for congregation although all that means is that people pile into the hall to await for the announcement which means that it really doesn't relieve actual congestion.

themicah

The real bottlenecks at Penn are the stairways and escalators between the concourses and the platforms. I can't imagine how they'd be able to support two-way traffic when a train pulls in.

Blumie

I also don't understand why this is an issue, and why the OP's wife thinks it's "stupid." Why is waiting on an overcrowded platform preferable to waiting in the overcrowded lobby? I get that when the track finally is announced there often (usually? always?) is a mad rush to the platform, but, as many have pointed out, it's hard to see that the jostling between arriving and departing passengers on the platform that would be caused by announcing tracks earlier would be preferable. The fact is that Penn Station is inadequate for the volume of trains and passengers it serves, but posting tracks earlier isn't going to solve anything.

Mary2e

In some cases, the NJ Transit trains are always on the same platform, and it it was busier than usual, I'd go down and wait hoping it would be the same.

But it's a bear trying to get up/down the staircases when a train is arriving and passengers are trying to board a train on the other side of the same platform. Chaos rules.

I'd rather stand upstairs than deal with that.

FWIW -I'm driving in now and happy I don't have to deal with Penn any longer

ijgordon

Well, theoretically you can benefit from first-come-first-served if they let you wait on the platform. As it is now, there's no benefit to, say, arriving 15 minutes early, because you'll still have to make the mad dash when they post the track at T-10. Of course that would only help if the train is actually there 15 minutes before. I've definitely experienced a train NOT being in the station after the track was called at T-10, and then everyone does have to line up on the platform, and it's a bit nerve-wracking because you don't know if the doors will open near where you're standing, and so even if you're early, you may get screwed due to bad luck.

I'm not a regular regional rail commuter (thank goodness!), but my experience is that at GCT the trains are accepting passengers well before T-10, so you can just leisurely stroll down the platform and get on the train if you're early. At Penn, no matter what time or day, there will always be the T-10 mad dash. But that just brings us back to the number of tracks/platforms at GCT vs. Penn, so there's really no way around it.

Analise

I used to be a reverse commuter between Penn & NJ and hated being at Penn compared with GCT. GCT is easy and pleasant. At least on the subway level when waiting for NJ Transit trains at Penn (or Amtrak for those who know not to wait up top), there are areas blasting with air conditioning. ^

JimInOhio

I don't think the issue is related to passenger movement but rather to train movement. GCT is a true terminal in that any inbound train physically departs from the same track it arrived upon. That's all known in advance. NJT and LIRR might know which train set is going to make up a departing train from Penn Station but which track is used for any train can be a very fluid situation since the train often is being brought in from the yard just before boarding.

mjm

I think it may be a long time before even what is arguably the best US train networking area is ready for the level of sophistication a busy Shinkansen station handles.

Analise

I think to compare commuter rail with the Shinkansen is a bit amusing. Commuter rails aren't bullet trains.

mjm

Not sure if it is amusing but certainly interesting. Shinkansens are most certainly used by commuters but the point I was making was the frequency and number of people are both significantly greater yet they handle it without the clusterfudge that is NY's Penn. I think the key is the mindset of commuters. The whole concept of rushing down the escalators to the platform blew my mind in Penn Stn recently. NY is a huge metropolis by any measure yet the train system was akin to a minor station in a metropolis like Tokyo. I believe they will evolve but that is tied to a number of factors which seem to be generally ignored still. Better carriages, more usage and more access to stations up line and things will change as people stop selfishly driving cars alone and take the train more. NY handles a lot of commuter traffic but comparatively speaking only a fraction of other places.

JimInOhio

Tokyo Station (Shinkansen) handles about 400,000+ passengers daily (according to Wikipedia). Penn Station handles over 600,000 per day.

mjm

Cute. You quote throughput for Penn and boarding pax for Tokyo. Double that for Tokyo's throughput or halve it (from your same Wiki source provided by the actual operators) for Penn.

Bottom line is there are ways to manage the traffic much better than it is being handled. Examples exist as I have mentioned. I would love to see the US go to more of a train culture. So much to be gained for the country not to mention the global environment. That would require a move from selfish car driving however to community focused infrastructure investment and lifestyle changes though. Just imagine the health benefits to walking as much is required to and from and within stations.

RooseveltL

Agreed on train service improvements but reality - someone has to pay for rail service improvements and the US is deficient in funding current highway infrastructure. Unless, a rise in gas sales and gas tax or introduce alternative taxes I think transit improvement projects will get the identical response of C. Christie on new tunnel to Manhattan.

The only current rail (non-Parh) tunnel was finance entirely by private corporation when it was built.

ijgordon

There's nothing inherently different about knowing which track a train will arrive from if it's coming from the yard vs. arriving from passenger service. And in fact, some LIRR trains arrive from LI with passengers and immediately load passengers for a trip back east.

The difference again comes down to the number of tracks/platforms. Because of the more limited track capacity (and greater # of trains) at Penn, they don't let the trains stay in the station for more than 15 minutes or so at a time. At GCT they can sit around longer.

joshwex90

Announcing much earlier than 10 minutes would only really be helpful if the trains were ready to board more than 10 minutes in advance. I'd much rather sit in the seat ready to go and sleep, start reading a book, etc. than still be half-preparing to find out where to go.

Maybe they'll significantly expand if/when MSG moves and they really to an overhaul. As much as Penn Station is convenient, and the main terminal in the NYC-area (even though it's a central station for Amtrak and not a terminus), I still hate the layout. Definitely much more confusing than some other great train stations, with decent but not great signage.