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I've really got to ask about the people who say "no more than $250 per bank per deposit." Is it really worth your time?
The best case I can see here is Schwab Visa (who must have gazillions of new customers because of this deal) and with that you make $5. Really? To order, get the box, drive to the bank, deal, spend your time, lug the coins, track all of this to make sure the charges and deposits are right?
OK, so I'm one of the "I did $X0,000 in one deposit!" guys. I know you all think I'm shutting this whole deal down (but, of course, it's still going strong and the posts we see about huge numbers are only the tip of the iceberg, if general web forum posting demographics hold true). But at $10K, that's $200. Now that's worth a few hours and some time being exceptionally nice to your banker. But $5? Total waste of time to me.
Your employer could also pay you in pennies if they wanted to - but certainly just because it's "legal" doesn't mean you don't have to show some basic human decency when needed.
+1 on this 'counter' to the "the coins are legal tender and the banks MUST take them" arguement. It is true they are legal tender and a bank should accept them as a deposit for one of their customers.
However, since it does cost the bank some resources, if you do this on a regular basis you risk them deciding it is not worth the effort.
I know several stores that will not accept the dollar coins - you can argue that it is money all you want but if they do not want to take it they are free to forgo your business.
I never said anyone was a crook. I specifically said the banks have a private network that was orginally set up for fraud issues by fax and now it is done via the internet. Since they switched to internet it is much easier to discuss other topics besides frauds occuring now that they are not limited to "fax alerts". Your discussion on flyertalk and practices will cause the demise. Everyone is not making money off of this practice. Furthermore many of you are going to trigger reports that will have law enforcement look into your banking practices. I am not joking! And anyone familiar with banking knows the two different and distinct issues I am talking about. Once again I am not implying anyone is operating a terrorist cell network or doing anything illegal but what you are doing will most likely trigger two different alerts or alarms. The first alert is private between the banks until they contact the government but it has many retired gov employees who use it and the second is run and used by several law enforcement agencies. FYI....One of these alerts you trigger just by discussing it with any bank employee. Kind of like the book 1984 and spooky but true.
Let's say for the sake of discussion that the bank turns over your "suspicious" bank transactions to Fed and they start to investigate. If you're like me you have copies of all your Mint orders, credit card statements and bank statements, no problem with documentation, but what a hassle. When the investigator goes to the bank and talks with the teller and you've said, "I collected a debt; ordered the wrong amount, etc.", and then they talk with you and you tell them about the FF mile program; the investigator will get real suspious about why you told a story at the bank. Tell the bank what you're doing or don't say anything at all.
My SO asked about the program and I told her to compare it to a coupon program. You clip the same coupon out of different issues of the paper and you buy the item at discount. We basically do the same thing, except our reward is not a reduced price but miles. It's apparant the Mint doesn't mind the multiple orders as they've taken the limit off of the NA's. The Presidents limit is no different than a store saying "one item per customer." Yes, you might go back a second time, but if the coupon came in the mail and you only have one, you buy your one item and go on.
I personally would never take $10K into one bank, my max is $2-2.5K per transaction. My bank has 45+ branches and I keep track of where I make my deposits and don't go back more than once a month to any one branch. I do have a policy that if they want me to use the coin counter I say no thanks and leave. There are two many problems with bank coin counters and dollar coins and I would rather just drive to the next branch and save the time and mis-counts.
The "suspicious activity" report is going to detail that the deposits were in dollar coins, and it is then going to be ignored completely by the government. The reports will have to specify dollar coins; otherwise the bank would have seen nothing suspicious regarding the opening of an account for $5,000 with subsequent cash deposits.
The agency that receives the suspicious activity reports is going to get a few of these from various banks, but this strategy is so well known now that the agency is aware of its existence. Personally, I just don't see the issue even if the forms are filed by the banks. Banks file a ton of these and they are almost always ignored by the recipient agency. To minimize the odds of a filing, I wouldn't do more than $10,000 at a time.
Personally, I have opened 5 accounts (some with account opening bonuses) with an initial deposit of $5,000 each. I now add $1,000 to each account when I receive a shipment. All of the branches are near each other in the downtown that I work, so I can easily do a separate deposit each day at lunch and get the $5,000 deposited in a week.
I realize this will all end, but I believe in riding it until the wheels come off. Strategies like this are hated by the credit card companies. It theoretically allows a few recipients to get cash, purchase assets that are protected in bankruptcy, and screw the credit card companies holding the unsecured debt that was incurred to purchase the coins. This technique can be reversed by a court, but the credit card company has to incur legal fees to get that accomplished.
One day we will wake up and read that the Mint no longer accepts credit card payments, but will accept ACH transfers instead (at least for the $1 direct ship). We will know that the credit card companies strong-armed the Mint, just like they probably did with Savings Bonds. Just my opinions.
Hopefully, before that happens, the government will declare that the strong demand from consumers demonstrates that citizens want dollar coins instead of paper dollars and the government will stop printing paper dollars. We all wear our seat belts more often after the government made us, don't we?
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Yes you will be the one to eventually kill the golden goose depositing $x0,000 at one bank!
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephstern
I've really got to ask about the people who say "no more than $250 per bank per deposit." Is it really worth your time?
The best case I can see here is Schwab Visa (who must have gazillions of new customers because of this deal) and with that you make $5. Really? To order, get the box, drive to the bank, deal, spend your time, lug the coins, track all of this to make sure the charges and deposits are right?
OK, so I'm one of the "I did $X0,000 in one deposit!" guys. I know you all think I'm shutting this whole deal down (but, of course, it's still going strong and the posts we see about huge numbers are only the tip of the iceberg, if general web forum posting demographics hold true). But at $10K, that's $200. Now that's worth a few hours and some time being exceptionally nice to your banker. But $5? Total waste of time to me.
josephstern,
How much do you pay your accountant? Congrats you have triggered both alerts. Be sure to at least calculate the time you and/or your accountant will spend with the IRS explaining your transactions. The IRS is busy so it could be a couple years before they get to you. You could luck out and someone at the bank could have failed to report you but then the bank would be breaking the law. You have gone from the discreationary area to a transaction required by law to be reported.
The report that Centurion mentions does not go directly to the IRS and there is no IRS automatic matching or letter-generating program with respect to "over $10,000 cash" transactions like there is with 1099s. I am a tax accountant and I am reasonably familiar with this stuff.
The IRS ultimately has access to the information and it may slightly increase your chance of audit if other factors on your return are present, but I haven't personally seen that in fact does increase the audit risk. There are simply a lot of those reports that are filed by banks.
Personally, I keep the deposits to amounts less than $10,000. This message, of course, doesn't represent professional advice.
josephstern,
How much do you pay your accountant? Congrats you have triggered both alerts. Be sure to at least calculate the time you and/or your accountant will spend with the IRS explaining your transactions. The IRS is busy so it could be a couple years before they get to you. You could luck out and someone at the bank could have failed to report you but then the bank would be breaking the law. You have gone from the discreationary area to a transaction required by law to be reported.
you should read a couple pages back. this is the same guy who accidentally ordered $30k and had to argue with his bank to take the deposit. and how he felt like he shouldn't have a problem since has a huge amount in his accounts.
also the same guy who was going to send the coins to his credit card company so it'd be easier for him to pay the credit card rather than going to the bank.
i don't agree with people who deposit $5k, i think that's a lot. but then my opinion does not matter. i used to post here a lot but there were certain people who like to take over the thread and push their opinion down others throat. so i will go back to lurking and read what other people have to say.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryeal
Disagree completely - there is such a thing as human respect. It's not always about the big company. I split my deposits up not because I have to, not because I get flak - but because I know it's not easy for the teller to handle that much and pack it all up and send it back (as my bank does in this area). Out of respect I don't bring in 5k at a time to them because it is a big hassle.
Your employer could also pay you in pennies if they wanted to - but certainly just because it's "legal" doesn't mean you don't have to show some basic human decency when needed.
Granted - I'm sure there are banks out there that getting 5k worth of $1 coins is really not a big deal. But in my area - it really is a hassle. I also don't try to come during peak times as well.
Well, that's your opinion. Banks have to and should take every penny you bring in. It's called obeying the law. And its good business for them. It's a win win. I don't care if I'm making some $9 an hour teller actually work instead of chat it up with their friends. That's what it comes down to.
[quote=Andy2;12013781]The report that Centurion mentions does not go directly to the IRS and there is no IRS automatic matching or letter-generating program with respect to "over $10,000 cash" transactions like there is with 1099s. I am a tax accountant and I am reasonably familiar with this stuff.
[/QUOTE
I never said it goes directly to the IRS. Worse it is shared by several investigative entities that can be very costly and disruptive to ones lifes. Furthermore you fail to meantion that there have been recent changes to the requirements of what and who gets alerted. You are not talking about something like NCIC that requires a query and has an audit trail of who did the query. I am done on this thread. The government has computer web crawlers that even dig for topics we are discussing. Not that is illegal to discuss they just do it. Who knows why.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy2
Hopefully, before that happens, the government will declare that the strong demand from consumers demonstrates that citizens want dollar coins instead of paper dollars and the government will stop printing paper dollars. We all wear our seat belts more often after the government made us, don't we?
I'd like to think on this Independence Day that liberty is a concept that is still worth being preserved. The fact that we are becoming more comfortable with the government "making us" perform activities that are restrictive of our liberty in the name of enhancing the perceived common good is a little troubling.
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Well, that's your opinion. Banks have to and should take every penny you bring in. It's called obeying the law. And its good business for them. It's a win win. I don't care if I'm making some $9 an hour teller actually work instead of chat it up with their friends. That's what it comes down to.
yea, maybe it's in good business, but i'm not sure they have to and are legally required. it is, after all, a private institution, and just like i can choose not to sell my house to some dude who will pay all in pennies, they can accept or reject any business that they see fit (as long as it isn't discriminatory), correct?
I've really got to ask about the people who say "no more than $250 per bank per deposit." Is it really worth your time?
The best case I can see here is Schwab Visa (who must have gazillions of new customers because of this deal) and with that you make $5. Really? To order, get the box, drive to the bank, deal, spend your time, lug the coins, track all of this to make sure the charges and deposits are right?
OK, so I'm one of the "I did $X0,000 in one deposit!" guys. I know you all think I'm shutting this whole deal down (but, of course, it's still going strong and the posts we see about huge numbers are only the tip of the iceberg, if general web forum posting demographics hold true). But at $10K, that's $200. Now that's worth a few hours and some time being exceptionally nice to your banker. But $5? Total waste of time to me.
Absolutely worth my time and I get more reward from this deal than the $5 you've stated.
