schmare - perhaps the problem was that you immediately cashed the checks. I wonder if the same thing would happen if you cashed them more gradually. That is what I am trying. I have some old travelers checks that I collected and I am cashing them and depositing them first. I haven't done it all at once for fear it would get reported somehow. We'll see if I get a letter if I haven't cashed any of the checks I've gottn in the last month. Also if they were all cashed "at home." I am sure that they can track all of this. As far as they know, I am saving for a major trip.
Yes, I certainly wasn't subtle about it, mostly because I was looking to do this with the minimum amount of hassle and effort.
Re-depositing the checks slowly may help, but eventually you'll need to deposit everything back into your account. I guess it depends whether it was the weekly purchase of the travelers checks causes suspicion, or whether suspicion arises when the same batch of travelers checks are all cashed together.
Hmmm....wondering if I should give it another (more subtle) go ....
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Since these are treated as purchases but deducted from your cash advance limit (info from OP), would these purchases count towards the Delta AMEX mqm thresholds?
Re-depositing the checks slowly may help, but eventually you'll need to deposit everything back into your account. I guess it depends whether it was the weekly purchase of the travelers checks causes suspicion, or whether suspicion arises when the same batch of travelers checks are all cashed together.
Hmmm....wondering if I should give it another (more subtle) go ....
To do this right, you'd have to do, say, $1000 on 3 cards/week = roughly $150k/yr. That is a lot of Traveler's Checks in an age where virtually nobody uses them anymore. And you never know, cashing them slowly (apart from the administrative hassle), may also raise eyebrows these days.
What kinds of reporting requirements are those / for what thresholds? I would imagine that people / travellers deposit unused TCs upon returning home all the time since most I know that do bother getting them do so "just in case." Merchants certainly deposit these all the time. I think we ran through this same discussion in the GC thread and nothing ever came of it. I don't see what is remotely illegal about it or how it could be money laundering, so please let me know. Getting a TC is just acquiring a cash instrument with one's own money (/line of credit). You're redepositing it into your own account. There's no tax evasion or attempt to or benefit from "concealing the source of the funds." How would it be any different than the fact that I constantly withdraw cash, change it into foreign currency, and redeposit when I get back from a trip. I think that Amex might get pissy over the terms/spirit of the thing, but I don't understand how it could be money laundering and would like to be enlightened before I embark on anything. Thanks.
I came across this Amex TC opportunity when I was looking for the next best thing after the Gift Card churning came to an end about a year or so ago. At the time it seemed like too much of a pain, but now that I'm in Manhattan where there are 8-12 Amex corporate centers I could do this, I'm definitely considering it.
Anyone who's done it low key for a while, I'd appreciate any tips.
peace,
~Ben~
In the eyes of banks, TC is the same as cash since it's origin can not be traced/verified. I believe federal laws says that if someone deposited a aggregated total of > $10,000 in cash in a year, the bank has to report it. Remember that the act of deposit large amounts of cash is legal, same as transporting that cash in or out of the country, as long as it's been reported.
Now who gets to see this report? I don't know, but I can bet at least IRS is on that list and I certainly don't want to have a date with IRS.
In the eyes of banks, TC is the same as cash since it's origin can not be traced/verified. I believe federal laws says that if someone deposited a aggregated total of > $10,000 in cash in a year, the bank has to report it. Remember that the act of deposit large amounts of cash is legal, same as transporting that cash in or out of the country, as long as it's been reported.
Now who gets to see this report? I don't know, but I can bet at least IRS is on that list and I certainly don't want to have a date with IRS.
Actually, the bank needs to report cash deposits if it's more than $10,000 in a day. The report is called a CTR (currency transaction report). As you noted, depositing large amounts of cash is legal, so this shouldn't cause problems or give reason for suspicion.
If you were to deposit large sums of money frequently, the bank may choose to file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report), which is a much bigger deal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmare
Actually, the bank needs to report cash deposits if it's more than $10,000 in a day. The report is called a CTR (currency transaction report). As you noted, depositing large amounts of cash is legal, so this shouldn't cause problems or give reason for suspicion.
If you were to deposit large sums of money frequently, the bank may choose to file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report), which is a much bigger deal.
Do you think that $1000 or $2000 a month would really trigger a SAR? Those amounts don't seem at all extraordinary to me given what banks deal with daily. Especially if it is seen to be regular, if anything.
Also, if I bank with BoA or Chase and do the deposits at different branches, would that decrease the liklihood? I mean, rather than a human flagging it for a SAR, the systems would have to flag the pattern, right? Seems a lot less likely to me for those kinds of amounts ($12k-$24k / year). Especially if they show as cash deposits as someone else mentioned. A lot of workers deposit their cash pay that way in similar amounts with similar frequency.
peace,
~Ben~
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In the Spring of 2004, while on vacation in South Florida, I went to an Amex Travel Services office, and attempted to purchase traveler's checks with my Hilton HHonors Amex card. The office refused to let me purchase the checks with my card, explaining that only Amex CHARGE cards (not CREDIT cards) could be used to purchase traveler's checks. I called customer service from the Amex office, and they confirmed that the local office was correct.
Has the policy changed? Has anyone here used an Amex credit card (like Hilton HHonors Amex or SPG Amex) to purchase traveler's checks?
Do you think that $1000 or $2000 a month would really trigger a SAR? Those amounts don't seem at all extraordinary to me given what banks deal with daily.....
No - I don't think a few thousand a month would trigger anything. My understanding is that repeated deposits of more than $10,000 cash will trigger it, or repeated examples of trying to "hide" how much is being deposited (for example repeatedly depositing $9,999). Since there's a human element to it (i.e. the bank employee thinks something is shady), I don't know that there is one set of transactions that automatically trigger the SAR.
To be honest, my experience with this is very limited, so I could be incorrect!
Neither SARs nor CTRs will present a problem for anyone who is doing transactions that are 100% legal - as is the case here. They only become a problem if you are a drug dealer, money laundering for a criminal enterprise, or evading income taxes.
Charging travelers cheques to get miles doesn't break any laws.
I don't think Amex will close this loophole because they make boatloads of interest from all the people who charge their cheques and then sit on them for weeks or months. Then again, if enough FTers do it ...
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They also tag you with a $15 per transaction (which means per $1000 limit mentioned here), so they are getting "something" even for an overnight out/in mentioned above.
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There are no fees involved with this transaction. I have used my SPG card and my Hilton card. I think as long as there are charges on your credit card, you have a very good way of explaining the deposits of travelers checks. I would spread out the deposits to different accounts, and also use them to pay your other credit card bills if you can. I bank at citibank, so I have begun to pay my bills at the teller with some previous traveler's checks that I had gathered for trips but were never used. If everyone who deposited $10,000 in a year were investigiated, this country would be in big trouble. I agree, I think it is in one day.
I don't think AMEX makes a big distinction any more between Charge cards or credit cards. Am I wrong about that?
I don't think Amex will close this loophole because they make boatloads of interest from all the people who charge their cheques and then sit on them for weeks or months. Then again, if enough FTers do it ...
Only if people are keeping the checks well after already paying their AmEx bill. AmEx might have to wait 60 days between the time a TC is purchased and the time it gets the cash for it. If the TC is cashed anytime before, AmEx is losing interest (giving you a free loan) and had to pay the transaction costs to boot.
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Neither SARs nor CTRs will present a problem for anyone who is doing transactions that are 100% legal - as is the case here. They only become a problem if you are a drug dealer, money laundering for a criminal enterprise, or evading income taxes.
Charging travelers cheques to get miles doesn't break any laws.
I don't think Amex will close this loophole because they make boatloads of interest from all the people who charge their cheques and then sit on them for weeks or months. Then again, if enough FTers do it ...
Neither SAR nor CTR will present an immediate problem since everything is legal. However, you'd better keep all those credit card statements in a safe place so that when IRS come ask you where was those weekly $1000 come from, you are prepared.
