Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > MilesBuzz
Reload this Page >

"Look me in the eye and unzip your pants"

"Look me in the eye and unzip your pants"

Old Nov 4, 2001, 6:35 pm
  #31  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DL: PM/2M; UA: 1K; AA: Plat/2MM; SQ: PPS; US: Plat; Starwood: Plat; Hilton: Diam Hyatt: Diam; Loews Plat; Avis: Chair.
Posts: 1,681
This is great! Anyone know how you can be chosen for this?
LAOCA is offline  
Old Nov 4, 2001, 6:44 pm
  #32  
Moderator Hilton Honors, Travel News, West, The Suggestion Box, Smoking Lounge & DiningBuzz
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Programs: Honors Diamond, Hertz Presidents Circle, National Exec Elite
Posts: 35,988
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FloridaFlyers:
The appropriate ... </font>
Speaking of appropriate, would you please edit your post for such appropriateness? Thank you.

cblaisd is offline  
Old Nov 4, 2001, 7:10 pm
  #33  
Moderator: Avianca, Travel Photography, Travel Technology & USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Far western edge of the La-La Land City limits
Programs: Emeritus VIP Fromins Deli Encino grandfathered successor program - UA MM & HH Diamond
Posts: 3,720
This thread has been pretty fun and interesting, but I believe FloridaFlyer's post has gone a bit beyond community standards. Hence I will be editing a word, by replacing it with pound signs "###".

------------------
Craig6z
Buzz & United Moderator
[email protected]
Moderator2 is offline  
Old Nov 4, 2001, 7:47 pm
  #34  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Programs: AA - Lifetime Gold
Posts: 1,513
Does this mean it would be "an eye for an eye" deal... get it? uh... da one eyed monster!!

ah hah ah hah giggle snort!
phoenixitc is offline  
Old Nov 4, 2001, 10:57 pm
  #35  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: lapsed UA 1K (now a lowly 2P), HGP Platinum
Posts: 9,607
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by artboy:
Now, we were all trying to be nice and steer clear of the wand joke!

Of course, no one has run with the "long fuse" one, so there is still hope!...
</font>
I was just scanning down, preparing to run with the long fuse comment, but I guess now you've ruined it Can I still answer the question about when the last time a guy whipped a gun out of his pants on baord with the guess "Marv Albert?"

While I agree that they should do this in private (although notice how the guys don't seem to mind being exposed in public? We're still really jealous of all the Frenchmen who got to, and the many who still do, urinate at the troughs on sides of buildings on public streets!), they shouldn't be afraid to search anywhere they need to. "I guess it must be your zipper," is a ridiculous lack of security.
robb is offline  
Old Nov 5, 2001, 1:33 am
  #36  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SEA (Transplant from MCO, HNL, and DEN)
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 229
"Originally posted by Moderator2: This thread has been pretty fun and interesting, but I believe FloridaFlyer's post has gone a bit beyond community standards. Hence I will be editing a word, by replacing it with pound signs "###"

I guess I was trying to say the same thing as everyone else, just in a more straightforward and direct manner. If I offended anyone, I apologize and stand corrected. As a "new" member of the FlyerTalk forum (1 week) I guess I still have a lot to learn. I guess I'll curtail my posts until I better understand proper procedures and etiquette. I stand corrected.
FloridaFlyers is offline  
Old Nov 5, 2001, 5:48 am
  #37  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: omaha,Ne,usa
Programs: UAL, AA, Hilton, Marriott, and Northwest
Posts: 465
Dranz I would like to see a cite on your comment. I have never seen any published score anywhere near this level. The only results I have seen in the paper, were specifically targeted at number of times weapons and bombs that got through the security checkpoint. I did not see any airports that had a failure rate anywhere near 100%.

Nostresshere, I really do not think that even prior to 9-11 were guns gotten through security frequently. I also do not think that true combat equivalent knives were passed through security very often. Military aircraft have accident rates that are constantly decreasing but the media makes you think they are constantly crashing. We are now hearing about every incident and it just makes it look crazy.

Actually intelligence personel are taught to work the security system. Distract, attack breaches in procedure etc. Or use items that are not detected by the system used. Ie no metal knives if you are going to get wanded. The people we taught in central asia were never taught the types of things you are talking about. We did work with the afgans against the soviets. We even taught field craft to some of them but you need to give proof for your insinuation that we taught them how to sneak weapons past mteal detectors. It would have been a waste of time as they would never had a reason to use it. Remember they were sneaking across a border on mules we raised in the US at one point. I also have no clue as to who you would be talking about in central america. Drug dealers? contras? again the people I assume you are referring to would have had no reason to ever use the skills you are talking about. The techniques you can attack us for having taught them is explosives for truck bombs and how to run cells. None of these skills are unique to us. We have naught taught the palestinians or the Libyans but they seem to have learned somehere how to blow up plains with very sophisticated bombs.

Again the action of someone getting a weapon past security is not the same as a terrorist knowing that he has a solid chance of doing this at his time of choosing. That is why attacks are not constantly happening.

------------------
Robert
robvberg is offline  
Old Nov 5, 2001, 8:46 am
  #38  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by robvberg:
Dranz I would like to see a cite on your comment. I have never seen any published score anywhere near this level. The only results I have seen in the paper, were specifically targeted at number of times weapons and bombs that got through the security checkpoint. I did not see any airports that had a failure rate anywhere near 100%.

Nostresshere, I really do not think that even prior to 9-11 were guns gotten through security frequently. I also do not think that true combat equivalent knives were passed through security very often. Military aircraft have accident rates that are constantly decreasing but the media makes you think they are constantly crashing. We are now hearing about every incident and it just makes it look crazy.

Actually intelligence personel are taught to work the security system. Distract, attack breaches in procedure etc. Or use items that are not detected by the system used. Ie no metal knives if you are going to get wanded. The people we taught in central asia were never taught the types of things you are talking about. We did work with the afgans against the soviets. We even taught field craft to some of them but you need to give proof for your insinuation that we taught them how to sneak weapons past mteal detectors. It would have been a waste of time as they would never had a reason to use it. Remember they were sneaking across a border on mules we raised in the US at one point. I also have no clue as to who you would be talking about in central america. Drug dealers? contras? again the people I assume you are referring to would have had no reason to ever use the skills you are talking about. The techniques you can attack us for having taught them is explosives for truck bombs and how to run cells. None of these skills are unique to us. We have naught taught the palestinians or the Libyans but they seem to have learned somehere how to blow up plains with very sophisticated bombs.

Again the action of someone getting a weapon past security is not the same as a terrorist knowing that he has a solid chance of doing this at his time of choosing. That is why attacks are not constantly happening.

</font>
Actually, we did and do teach people to evade security procedures at all types of secured locations. There are multiple reasons for this related to routine and not-so-routine espionage needs. The Pakistani ISI has trained individuals in the past to hijack aircraft and these trained individuals were deployed in Afghanistan (to gain access to secured dual-purpose airfields) and India. As President Regan once said: "Trust, but verify".
GUWonder is offline  
Old Nov 5, 2001, 8:52 am
  #39  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
If so many people have been trained how to smuggle weapons past the detectors, then why does it almost never happen? When's the last time someone pulled a gun out of his pants on a plane? This is just preposterous.

Bruce
</font>
Believe what you wish. I did not say .1% of the traveling public is trained in this. But there were at least a few hundred individuals involved in such training during the Cold War days. Hijackings were considered a tool to destabilize a country by attracting global media attention to a certain ideology, movement, etc. Destabilization tactics 101.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Nov 5, 2001, 1:46 pm
  #40  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 987
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GUWonder:
Destabilization tactics 101.</font>
Now where are my old college texts.....

freefaller12k is offline  
Old Nov 5, 2001, 2:07 pm
  #41  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by freefaller12k:
Now where are my old college texts.....

</font>
hahhaha
GUWonder is offline  
Old Nov 5, 2001, 3:43 pm
  #42  
Moderator: Avianca, Travel Photography, Travel Technology & USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Far western edge of the La-La Land City limits
Programs: Emeritus VIP Fromins Deli Encino grandfathered successor program - UA MM & HH Diamond
Posts: 3,720
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I guess I'll curtail my posts until I better understand proper procedures and etiquette. I stand corrected.</font>
Appreciate your response, FloridaFlyers. Don't make yourself scarce. Flyertalk welcomes you, just keep the postings no worse than "PG" rated!
_____________
And BTW to everyone else posting on this thread, remember this is a "family" bulletin board.


------------------
Craig6z
Buzz & United Moderator
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by Moderator2 (edited 11-05-2001).]
Moderator2 is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2001, 4:47 am
  #43  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: omaha,Ne,usa
Programs: UAL, AA, Hilton, Marriott, and Northwest
Posts: 465
GUwonder,
I agree trust but verify. I also stand by my comments. I will assume you have or have had some connection to intelligence. I have had pretty good contact with afgans from the 80's through the Afgan Studies Center at UNO. I have met Muj, afgan refugees and even a couple of Taliban. I also have read much of the material from the invasion on.

We did teach fieldcraft and the afgans did have city cells. They infiltrated both afgan ops and soviet offices. Yet the fieldcraft was designed for different situations. Sneaking info out of a Gov office is different than sneaking a weapon on a plane. I will agree that basic fieldcraft is usuable in scouting a target and developing a plan etc. It is also kind of a mistake to think dual use airfields actually existed during soviet occupation. The only people flying during that period on (commercial?) aircraft during this time were soviets, party members (afgan and others),military, a few newsmen, and UN workers. I have never heard of any attempt at a hijacking during that period, and it would have been a waste. Instead of a hijacking that would have resulted in a dead hijacker/s. All of the flights would have armed personel on them. The muj tactic was to sabatoge airplanes on the ground through attacks. When stingers became available the muj had another way to interdict their flights.

While it is probably true the the pakistani service was involved in the Indian aircraft hijacking. At the same time I think it is false to believe that the CIA trained the pakistanis in how to takeover aircraft. I have heard rumors that pakistani commandos did train in retaking hijacked airliners with US and maybe british. They also have good relations with egyptian special forces according to rumor. Those skills could be passed on to help hijackers but it would seem unlikely that it did. Actually taking over an aircraft is not that specialized. The problem is making sure that you can get weapons on the plane and then decide what you want/where you hope to take the plane.

So while I agree that we have taught some skills that are useable in any clandestine missions, the skills needed for a hijacking are actually very minor and not really that difficult to develop on your own. The palestinians actually had some success even prior to working with the soviets. As was said the skills are even in military texts US, british, russian and I am sure every other service as well.

------------------
Robert
robvberg is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2001, 10:51 am
  #44  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: "Sinner on the mainland; he's a sinner on the sea"
Programs: AA, UA, HH, WOH, Bonvoy
Posts: 6,088
if this makes the media, SFO's traffic will quadruple
se94583 is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2001, 12:12 pm
  #45  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tejas, I just can't get away from the place
Programs: Exxon Mobil Supertanker, WN Double Peanut, Accor Golden Cockroach
Posts: 8,350
A determined hijacker will succeed with or without a weapon. A box cutter is not a formidable weapon, but in the right hands it can be.
boilermaker is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.