peter42

LU - you mean LH ?

Lally

If you are flying to Germany it really makes sense to go Business Class. It is well worth using your miles for an upgrade. It my opinion there is a BIG difference from coach.

Flying country to country within Europe is a different story. Some planes are only one class, like the shuttle.

CTANK

I'm sorry but I really fail to see the logic in this statement. There is absolutely no simmilarirty between business class and domestic first. Domestic first is superior to business class WITHIN Europe but the service, entertainment, comfort that business class offers on Intercontinetal flights blows the pants off domestic first class. I would ask you to consider backing up your statement, because I am curious as what lead you to say this. I respectfully disagree with your statement, but mean no offense personally.

Jx

Just did a search in expedia from washington to frankfurt and the least business class ticket costs $2500. I would recommend BA's world traveller plus which is a big improvement over economy (its a new class between economy and business). it has wider seats, individual LCD screens etc. check on BA website for dimensions. the only problem is that you might have to change planes at LHR.

outoftown

I flew AA business class this month to RDU to Sao Paulo and the return trip in coach. All the minor benefits, better food, better entertainment, first to board, etc. is not as critical as the most important aspect of the trip...the ability to stay comfortable strapped in one spot for an extended period of time. Whether you want to stay upright, doing a moviefest, reading or working, or stay reclined for sleep (my preference), the difference in the c vs. b factors that are important to you should be weighed vs. the cost to upgrade. For me, the legroom, seating, noise-cancelling headphones and the ability of seatmates to move without disturbing me are key and worth trying to upgrade. I've flown AA, DL and US business class to Europe in the last 3 years. For sleeping, my US Envoy seats to FRA reclined to 160 degrees on the Airbus, 180 degrees in first class. Not a substantial difference between business and first, but a huge difference between those seats and the upright sleeping position in coach.

runningshoes

I'm surprised no one brought up the options of buying through a ticket consolidator. I know that this opens another can of worms as some tickets may not earn miles, but it's another option. Discounts can easily hit 60% off the regular airline fares, search the web for consolidators in your area, or even ask your travel agent to direct you to one. If they're decent, they will do so.

Good luck

Red '74 TR6

Buying a ticket through a consolidator probably does mean not using FF miles either through accrual or upgrading. But I'd like to hear if anyone has used a consolidator and been able to coordinate with their FF program. It probably happens.

Efrem

Consolidator tickets are generally bought in bulk at huge discounts and don't offer miles since they are not "published fares." However, there are anecdotal reports of people giving FF numbers at check-in and getting miles on consolidator tickets, so it's worth a try.

PresRDC

I've used Travelselect.com as a consolidator for business class tickets and have gotten my FF miles on American and Delta. The busienss class segments are booked into D class, which may be a "published fare."

You can also try Icelandair, which I think fly to Germany. If you're in the D.C. area, they fly from BWI several times a week (also fom JFK, BOS, MSP and MCO) and offer confirmed seats in business class for the price of full fare coach. Thier business class is not as lavish as some others, but it does feature wider seats with more legroom (akin to domestic first class), better meals, priority check-in, baggage ahndling and lounge access. You also have to make a stopover in Keflavik, Iceland, but this is rarely for more than one hour. You can get FF miles on TWA, which will eventually be added to your AA account.

Also, it is quite common to be upgraded to Upper Class from Premium Economy on Virgin Atlantic and, if not, you still get a wider seat with more legroom than coach.

pointman

could somebody help bring me up to speed. I need some of these defined...
domestic coach
domestic first ..OK I know those two

What are the differences with these:
business class
business first
business elite
international first

I thought these last ones were all refering to the same thing. For example, I look at the description of the 777 on Continental's website. I see coach and "first class" seats. Nothing more.... What is this business class if it is not first class?? Thanks for the Help.

Efrem

The whole thing boils down to international airlines competing for business. They all want to offer something unique to the premium (read: most profitable) passenger. Some do this by trying for the most luxurious first class they can create. Some want to offer more luxury for a business class fare. And some rely mostly on people traveling to their home countries, many of whom also have an ethnic affinity to it. Any of these can work. With that in mind:

International first: first class on an international flight. What makes the distinction between it and domestic first relevant is that first class on international flights tends to be fancier than first class on domestic flights. It has things like seats that turn into flat beds and caviar. If international first was like domestic first, there wouldn't be room for an intermediate business class. As it is, it's so different that an airline can create something between economy and it that's better than domestic first.

Business class: an intermediate class between economy (coach) and first class. Typically found on international and some other long-distance flights where first-class accommodations are particularly luxurious. It attracts business people whose companies will pay for it but not for first. It also gets frequent flyers (like me) who buy economy tickets and upgrade with miles. This is a high-value use of miles, if you value them at what the ticket would have cost. (Whether or not the traveler would have bought the more expensive ticket, if he/she had to pay for it, is a separate issue.)

Business First, Business Elite, and a few others: individual airlines' names for their business/first class hybrid. Their aircraft typically have two classes of service, not three. These airlines claim that their business class offers more than most business class cabins at the same price. There is some truth to that, though it doesn't come up to the luxury and service that most true first-class services offer.

felis

Janicem, welcome on board !

As I made the trip from Europe and back many many times, I agree definitevely with everybody here: There is a huge difference, but rate is really more then a concern.

A lot of us are buiness becasue of upgrades, either by miles, or by coupons; If you are a new flyer, forget the coupons (you need more then 3 return trip, and some airlines have cancelled this opportunity even).
My opinion is that the travel FROM Europe is OK in coach (we travel during daytime), but the return trip (for me) from US to Europe is a real pain in coach:
YOU JUST CAN'T SLEEP. There is no room, there is noise, the night is very short.