Why don't airlines just sell elite status?
Sep 26, 2016, 3:25 pm
#16
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Chicago
Programs: Delta SkyMiles, IHG (Platinum Elite), Amtrak Guest Rewards, Marriott Bonvoy, Hilton Honors
Posts: 636
Delta did offer to "sell" status at the end of last year - for example, they were selling 2.5K 5k and 10K of Medallion Qualification Miles for a certain amount of money so that people who had flown but hadn't reached the threshold could get status.
Sep 27, 2016, 5:43 am
#17
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5
Actually, if you read the "small print" at the United Mileage Plus site, during 2016 you can meet the "spend" requirement by charging $25,000 or more on certain United-branded Visa cards. Unfortunately for you, this only applies to acquiring Gold or Platinum status, not 1K.
Sep 28, 2016, 5:15 am
#18
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
The airlines not only sell elite status they give it away. AA just gave Gold Aavantage to a family member who has flown zero miles this year and zero paid miles last year. I can not figure out the algorithm that made AA send out this free gold. The other airlines do the same and the clues are in the fine print foot notes. Delta says you must fly 8 segments to get Delta Elite status
Sep 28, 2016, 5:25 am
#19
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,405
@LondonElite: Same goes for BA Bronze and at lot of other first tier ff status.
And if we are brutally honest, the usefulness of a statuts largely depends on the customer. Flying Y with top tier status gets you more for your status than flying First (which includes dedicated check-in, fastrack, first lounge, etc... anyway).
That said, I don't see the point in airlines selling their FF status. It makes lounges a lot busier and other advantages might potentially get watered down: If everybody is a priority customer, nobody is. This could potentially irritate customers that achieved the status by being loyal to the brand. Business partners could decide that other airlines are more adequate, etc...
And if we are brutally honest, the usefulness of a statuts largely depends on the customer. Flying Y with top tier status gets you more for your status than flying First (which includes dedicated check-in, fastrack, first lounge, etc... anyway).
That said, I don't see the point in airlines selling their FF status. It makes lounges a lot busier and other advantages might potentially get watered down: If everybody is a priority customer, nobody is. This could potentially irritate customers that achieved the status by being loyal to the brand. Business partners could decide that other airlines are more adequate, etc...
Sep 28, 2016, 11:25 am
#20
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Chicago
Programs: Delta SkyMiles, IHG (Platinum Elite), Amtrak Guest Rewards, Marriott Bonvoy, Hilton Honors
Posts: 636
@LondonElite: Same goes for BA Bronze and at lot of other first tier ff status.
And if we are brutally honest, the usefulness of a statuts largely depends on the customer. Flying Y with top tier status gets you more for your status than flying First (which includes dedicated check-in, fastrack, first lounge, etc... anyway).
That said, I don't see the point in airlines selling their FF status. It makes lounges a lot busier and other advantages might potentially get watered down: If everybody is a priority customer, nobody is. This could potentially irritate customers that achieved the status by being loyal to the brand. Business partners could decide that other airlines are more adequate, etc...
And if we are brutally honest, the usefulness of a statuts largely depends on the customer. Flying Y with top tier status gets you more for your status than flying First (which includes dedicated check-in, fastrack, first lounge, etc... anyway).
That said, I don't see the point in airlines selling their FF status. It makes lounges a lot busier and other advantages might potentially get watered down: If everybody is a priority customer, nobody is. This could potentially irritate customers that achieved the status by being loyal to the brand. Business partners could decide that other airlines are more adequate, etc...
Sep 28, 2016, 12:43 pm
#21
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Federal Way, WA
Programs: Mileage Plus 2P, Marriott Silver, many others
Posts: 1,305
The whole structure of the one-way loyalty* programs is absurd to begin with. What does mileage have to do with how loyal a passenger is?
I've long proposed a hybrid travel/dollars structure, although it doesn't look much like what's out there now. My plan is:
1. Awards in lieu of the customer forking over cash are based on dollars (or other currency) spent, credits being earned at a fixed percentage. If it were 1%, for example, then for every $100 spent you get $1 you can apply to future purchases. This could then be treated as a refund of an overpayment, similar to the "dividends" awarded by mutual insurance companies, with the side effect of eliminating the argument over whether it's taxable.
2. Perks for status would be based on one-way trips flown, not by miles. These would be true loyalty awards. I choose trips rather than miles because the passenger flying, say, DSM-DFW twice a month is demonstrating more loyalty than the one who flies MIA-SIN once.
*I say "one-way loyalty" because it's only about you being loyal to the airline, not them being loyal to you.
I've long proposed a hybrid travel/dollars structure, although it doesn't look much like what's out there now. My plan is:
1. Awards in lieu of the customer forking over cash are based on dollars (or other currency) spent, credits being earned at a fixed percentage. If it were 1%, for example, then for every $100 spent you get $1 you can apply to future purchases. This could then be treated as a refund of an overpayment, similar to the "dividends" awarded by mutual insurance companies, with the side effect of eliminating the argument over whether it's taxable.
2. Perks for status would be based on one-way trips flown, not by miles. These would be true loyalty awards. I choose trips rather than miles because the passenger flying, say, DSM-DFW twice a month is demonstrating more loyalty than the one who flies MIA-SIN once.
*I say "one-way loyalty" because it's only about you being loyal to the airline, not them being loyal to you.
Sep 28, 2016, 4:02 pm
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
If you're based in London and looking at it mostly through (1) oneworld benefits, and (2) longhaul international benefits, then perhaps.
But the person you were replying to is based in Arizona! So why assume that just because AA Gold is of little use to you in London, that it might not be of use to someone based in the USA?
Among the benefits:
https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-p...s-benefits.jsp
Why are all of those no better than a chocolate teapot?
Of course higher levels are even better, but isn't AA Gold still a lot better than AA Nobody, if it's actually AA metal on domestic flights that someone is mostly going to be flying?
(By "AA Nobodies", I just mean those with no status at AA. I don't mean they're nobody, I just mean AA treats that way.)
But the person you were replying to is based in Arizona! So why assume that just because AA Gold is of little use to you in London, that it might not be of use to someone based in the USA?
Among the benefits:
- 1 checked bag fee waived
- free domestic (intra-USA) upgrades on flights under 500 miles
- priority check-in/boarding
- complimentary same-day standby
- complimentary Preferred seats (do you realize most non-middle coach seats require paying extra by AA Nobodies at booking time?)
- MCE seats complimentary at check-in, 50% discount in advance (on paid flights only)
- award processing fee charge waived
https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-p...s-benefits.jsp
Why are all of those no better than a chocolate teapot?
Of course higher levels are even better, but isn't AA Gold still a lot better than AA Nobody, if it's actually AA metal on domestic flights that someone is mostly going to be flying?
(By "AA Nobodies", I just mean those with no status at AA. I don't mean they're nobody, I just mean AA treats that way.)
Last edited by sdsearch; Sep 28, 2016 at 4:08 pm
Sep 28, 2016, 4:40 pm
#23
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1
with the recent trend toward pqd/eqd/mqd, it's clear that the airlines don't want to extend elite status to customers who spend below a certain dollar amount.
Take me, for example. This year, i'll have enough pqm on united to re-qualify for 1k, but only enough pqd to be a silver. Now, some of you corporate apologists will accuse me of being an opportunistic freeloader, which is your right.
However, as a self-employed travel writer who funds most of his own travel, i'm loyal to the airline who lets me fly the most while spending the least, to say nothing of the rock-bottom hard and soft products the us 3 offer. "elite" status simply entitles me to the same treatment classier airlines given ordinary customers, to say nothing of the outdated first/business cabins to which i'm occasionally upgraded.
Anyway, i wonder if the airlines will ever take this idea to its logical conclusion: Selling elite status outright. What are your thoughts?
Take me, for example. This year, i'll have enough pqm on united to re-qualify for 1k, but only enough pqd to be a silver. Now, some of you corporate apologists will accuse me of being an opportunistic freeloader, which is your right.
However, as a self-employed travel writer who funds most of his own travel, i'm loyal to the airline who lets me fly the most while spending the least, to say nothing of the rock-bottom hard and soft products the us 3 offer. "elite" status simply entitles me to the same treatment classier airlines given ordinary customers, to say nothing of the outdated first/business cabins to which i'm occasionally upgraded.
Anyway, i wonder if the airlines will ever take this idea to its logical conclusion: Selling elite status outright. What are your thoughts?
Oct 1, 2016, 1:19 pm
#24
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: san francisco
Programs: No airline status whatsoever, Chase URs, HHonors Diamond, IHG Platinum
Posts: 567
Buying Elite Status
Well, IMHO, airlines do sell elite status, just not outright. The basic premise of a FF program is to reward your loyal passengers. It was never to award miles to everyone who joined the program; airlines just didn't see this huge monster when they set the programs up, and it took them forever to deal with it. They switched from miles flown to miles plus revenue generated. Makes perfect sense to me; the loyal customers will continue to earn status and enjoy the perks, the rest will use up their miles for magazine subscriptions before they expire. For someone like me who has many choices out of SFO, it's important that UA ensure my loyalty.
Whenever I question my loyalty to United, I remember the people in HNL who had an emergency medical stop on their way to Australia. Most of them couldn't get on another flight to Melbourne for days; I talked to one lady who was just going back home. Even tho I'm a lowly Silver, United would always make sure that I was taken care of promptly in a case like this. There are lots of other perks, but this is a huge factor for me.
Whenever I question my loyalty to United, I remember the people in HNL who had an emergency medical stop on their way to Australia. Most of them couldn't get on another flight to Melbourne for days; I talked to one lady who was just going back home. Even tho I'm a lowly Silver, United would always make sure that I was taken care of promptly in a case like this. There are lots of other perks, but this is a huge factor for me.
Oct 6, 2016, 6:56 am
#26
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
Bottom tier status is a big step up from no status at all. I wouldn't pay for it, and I wouldn't chase it on the basis of potential upgrades since airlines are doing better at selling those seats. But having had bottom tier status with US or AS over the past 5-10 years or so, here's what I've found to be the real, impactful benefits over non status:
1. Being able to get someone on the phone. Even bottom tier gets phone queue priority in just about every program. This is really useful for IRROPS when things go wrong for you, but also really good if the weather happens to be bad (meaning call volumes go up), but you're at home trying to get an award to book or have to call in to do something else. You actually have a shot at speaking to someone without waiting 30 minutes.
2. Priority check-in. For those of you like me who mostly depart from small airports, this usually doesn't matter on the way out. But sometimes on the way back, you show up at PHL 90 minutes before departure and the line to check your bag is around the block. This benefit lets you not worry and show up closer to departure.
3. Reduced fees. Depending on the program, same day changes, award changes, whatever else might be reduced.
That's about it for me. Upgrades happen every so often when flying the right route on the right day, but the benefits that save me time at the airport or let me get help on the phone are the ones that matter. Again, I wouldn't pay much for it in cash, though. If you don't fly enough to earn status, you probably don't fly enough for the benefits to matter. That's quickly becoming me - I probably won't have any status next year, and I'm not going out of my way to get it. Reality is, for 25k miles per year, I'm way better off buying on schedule/price/product (in that order) and buying up the benefits I want.
1. Being able to get someone on the phone. Even bottom tier gets phone queue priority in just about every program. This is really useful for IRROPS when things go wrong for you, but also really good if the weather happens to be bad (meaning call volumes go up), but you're at home trying to get an award to book or have to call in to do something else. You actually have a shot at speaking to someone without waiting 30 minutes.
2. Priority check-in. For those of you like me who mostly depart from small airports, this usually doesn't matter on the way out. But sometimes on the way back, you show up at PHL 90 minutes before departure and the line to check your bag is around the block. This benefit lets you not worry and show up closer to departure.
3. Reduced fees. Depending on the program, same day changes, award changes, whatever else might be reduced.
That's about it for me. Upgrades happen every so often when flying the right route on the right day, but the benefits that save me time at the airport or let me get help on the phone are the ones that matter. Again, I wouldn't pay much for it in cash, though. If you don't fly enough to earn status, you probably don't fly enough for the benefits to matter. That's quickly becoming me - I probably won't have any status next year, and I'm not going out of my way to get it. Reality is, for 25k miles per year, I'm way better off buying on schedule/price/product (in that order) and buying up the benefits I want.
Oct 6, 2016, 1:40 pm
#27
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
It would make sense to at least upsell to the next status. Especially if it was one you had previously achieved in the past.
I'm currently AC SE 100k. But for 2017 I'll likely be down to 35k. I'm likely gonna be about $800 short of making the 50k status, which is Star Gold and what I actually care about. The super elite perks are great, but Star Gold includes all the perks of no lineups and lounge access, that's my main concerns.
Would I just give AC the $800? I might. Would I buy another flight for $800 if I had time to take another trip? Of course. Wouldn't it make sense for them to either sell me the ability to extend my qualifying time a little, OR maybe even just look ahead to see the fact that immediately after cut off I've got a return trip from YVR-MAD that would easily push me over the qualifier?
I guess the long and short of it is, they need to draw the line and for me it's an inconvenience. Oh well, back to being a plebe I suppose.
I'm currently AC SE 100k. But for 2017 I'll likely be down to 35k. I'm likely gonna be about $800 short of making the 50k status, which is Star Gold and what I actually care about. The super elite perks are great, but Star Gold includes all the perks of no lineups and lounge access, that's my main concerns.
Would I just give AC the $800? I might. Would I buy another flight for $800 if I had time to take another trip? Of course. Wouldn't it make sense for them to either sell me the ability to extend my qualifying time a little, OR maybe even just look ahead to see the fact that immediately after cut off I've got a return trip from YVR-MAD that would easily push me over the qualifier?
I guess the long and short of it is, they need to draw the line and for me it's an inconvenience. Oh well, back to being a plebe I suppose.
Oct 7, 2016, 7:36 am
#29
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Venice, Florida
Programs: Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,607
I knew aa sold various levels of status, curious why they offered someone free status?
my reality as well is that I fly maybe 6 times a year now. I hate not having any status, but its not worth it to pay for it, even a few hundred dollars--Ill just pay extra for the aisle seat.
my reality as well is that I fly maybe 6 times a year now. I hate not having any status, but its not worth it to pay for it, even a few hundred dollars--Ill just pay extra for the aisle seat.
Oct 7, 2016, 7:43 am
#30
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW London and NW Sydney
Programs: BA Diamond, Hilton Bronze, A3 Diamond, IHG *G
Posts: 6,344
Apart from a few DYKWIAs, nobody actually wants to buy status in itself.
People want status because of the benefits it brings. And airlines do sell benefit packages. For one, in the US (/CA/AU) you don't get domestic lounge access unless you buy a club membership - which is basically sort of buying a "status".
Take a look at https://plus.easyjet.com/ too - there is no way to earn this "status" except by paying
People want status because of the benefits it brings. And airlines do sell benefit packages. For one, in the US (/CA/AU) you don't get domestic lounge access unless you buy a club membership - which is basically sort of buying a "status".
Take a look at https://plus.easyjet.com/ too - there is no way to earn this "status" except by paying