sbm12

But that depends on the routing and price of the flight, right? My ticket to Yellowknife, Canada was 25k points but a $600ish ticket (and one which rarely sees discounts). For off-peak EWR-FLL/MCO even getting to 1.5cpp might be a high number.

Very much a YMMV thing which is why looking at broader trends is useful. And that is the case with many of these programs.

sdsearch

You not only seem to never want business or first, you also seem to never want to fly expensive flights.

At United, "anytime" awards are only about double "saver" awards. But in cash, "last seat" cost can be way way way more than double the first seat cost. So I would think that in cases where you might need fairly "last minute" flights, or flights to expensive destinations, even in coach you might get better value out of using United "anytime" awards then, but of course that would not be your average, just those flights.

Just like sbm12, the one time I used United miles for a domestic flight, it was 25k for a flight that would have cost more than $600 (Los Angeles to Jackson Hole, Wyoming and return). Isn't that 2.4 cpp?

But yes, while I simply pay (with a card that earns 2x or 3x) for almost all my coach flights, if you're going to use UR for coach flights that are not that expensive, you want to use them if possible in a way that earns something (the airline's miles) while you're redeeming something (UR points). The effectively raises your cpp (because you got not only the flight but some miles too for those UR points), but to what exactly, that's pretty hard to calculate.

madbrain

Good to know that some coach flights can get more than 1.5cpp. I have not seen it yet on any itinerary I priced. I mostly fly to Asia or Europe, and I'm not a frequent flyer.

madbrain

Well, it depends on one's definition of expensive. Obviously I don't want to pay more than I have to, who does ?

Yes, I'm aware of the anytime awards being double saver awards. I do however frequently book last minute, not really by choice but due to health issues, since bookings made early often tend having to be cancelled for medical reasons. Travel insurance covers it, but it's still a pain to go through the claim process, so I tend to prefer last minute booking.

Are the "anytime" awards always bookable if there is any seat left on the plane (even the last one) ? My experience in the past is that there was still restricted award seat inventory, even if one could still purchase seats for cash (at a premium).

Kagehitokiri

longhaul F has highest dollar value
domestic F may have some of best dollar to point value
i shouldve tried buying miles when i booked domestic transcon last minute
(2 middle seat Y / buying miles = $1500 per, i paid $2200 per for 2 F)

hotels can be crazy expensive, whether regular rate, or holiday rate (SPG)
but hotel point systems vary dramatically, and whether earning via CC or stay
credit card earning might be better for air, generally speaking
but if one never earns via hotel stays, just depends

blogs have to oversimplify and overgeneralize
some on FT do the same
it is really not ideal to try to do that
especially when perceived value varies

pinniped

I tend to calculate cpp for airline miles based on flights I take where they're an actual cash replacement. The humble domestic flight (or transborder US/Canada flight) ends up being my baseline. I don't use *most* of my miles this way, but it's the best way to figure out what I should value my miles at when comparing against cash.

In other words, for me, close to 2 cents per mile.

When I redeem international J/F, I just basically think "is this ticket worth more than 2 cents per mile to me?" If we're talking about 120k R/T for a J seat...$2400 R/T for long-haul J...the answer is typically yes and I book it, assuming it never actually sells for below that amount. I don't care what the max-rack rate in Orbitz is, nor what my corporate travel agent would sell it to me for. Unless, of course, they're down in the $2k range for this hypothetical 120k R/T ticket.

I've created wacky F routings for a specific purpose (the LH FCT in FRA being an example) that (rather humorously) priced for $20,000+ in Orbitz. I have my laugh at that, but don't let it cloud my 2-cent valuation for my miles.

For hotels, I usually baseline cpp off of what I'd typically get for redeeming my likely award in a given program. For example, Marriott can be terrible for a 1-night redemption, but the Travel Packages are great. I stay there enough to actually reach the TP levels, so that's how I figure my cpp.

By contrast, I'm a fairly infrequent Hyatt guest, I find their one-night awards to be less of a "penalty", so I just baseline off of a midcategory free night award. Hyatt power-users probably baseline off of something else...I'm sure there are better awards in that program.

darkhound

IMHO, TPG's 2.1 valuation is garbage.

There are 3 ways to redeem points.

1. For cash at 1cpp. That ain't 2.1.

2. At the ultimate rewards portal. That's 1.5cpp. That ain't 2.1 either.

3. By transferring to one of a dozen other partners at a 1:1 ratio. But if you look at HIS OWN chart valuing points at those other partners, none approach 2.1. http://thepointsguy.com/2016/09/sept...ly-valuations/

So by his own calculation, his 2.1 valuation is garbage, unless I'm seriously missing something.

btw, yes, I understand that in some instances ultimate reward points can be redeemed for much higher, maybe even 10cpp. But TPG is talking about averages.

pinniped

My only explanation for his logic: his value is 1.8 cpp (e.g., 1 Hyatt point), plus a bit of a premium because of the enhanced utility of a UR point.

You run across an amazing value for United miles but are a little short, you can dip into UR to top-off.

If that's it, I conceptually agree. I value my Starpoints a little higher than many people do because of the high utility in terms of topping off other accounts. I like using *most* SPG for hotel stays because they're so powerful there, but I love having all the top-off options.

rufflesinc

Same reason a benjamin is worth more than a $100 GC to a particular store. You don't calculate UR point value by averaging, you take the max and add a premium for transfer-ability.
You shouldn't be redeeming for Y. You get the most value when you redeem for J or F longhaul. I have never found an instance where I was unable to use UR points to book a J or F award on a specific day (UR transfer partners allow you to book on basically every airline in the world) , except once when booking at less than 24 hours notice , had to settle for CX Y+

My best non-airline UR redemption was booking Park Hyatt Beaver Creek for 30k a night when cash was in the high $900s. Got a slopeside corner unit (not suite)

madbrain

I only want to fly economy. I have never flow in J or F and have no need to do so, whether it's a short or longhaul flight.

As to UR transfer partners allowing you to book on basically every airline in the world, that is just not the case. I could not book a flight on Vietjet Air with UR at all. Not even trying to redeeming UR at 1.5cpp through Chase, let alone as an award flight through transfer partners. I think the same was true for JetStar airways.

pinniped

Whether to fly Y or premium is a personal decision, but if you're flying long-haul I'd at least include them in my searches. You may find routes where the Y seat costs you the "double miles" award and the J seat is a regular award. If J costs the same as (or less than!) Y, why not book it?

Of course, I don't bother worrying about cents-per-mile when I book J or F. I don't buy those seats with my own cash. But I'll happily occupy those seats when the awards are available.

Actually, Chase UR is pretty good here: all three alliances, plus a couple of major players like WN and Virgin Atlantic. Of course that doesn't cover every LCC in the world, but when you have 1 point that can transfer into each of the three alliances in addition to other airlines and hotels, that's a pretty good selling point for UR.

In any case, for you the UR points might be worth the most as Hyatt points, assuming you travel to cities where there are some Hyatts...

rufflesinc

You can book vietnam with KE and AF, qantas with BA.
Then you're not going to get the most value from miles. In fact, i'd say flying Y in long haul is actually worse
It's also possible to accumulate UR by shopping online , not so for MR and SPG

madbrain

Yes, if it costs the same, of course I consider them. I just have never seen that situation. When only the double-miles awards are available for economy, I can book the economy flight as a cash fare at 1.5cpp, and that turns out to still be fewer points.

I'm not saying UR is bad, just that it is short of covering every airline in the world.

I don't know, I don't think I have ever stayed in a Hyatt in my life before.
In the past, I wasn't chasing points, and as cash rooms the Hyatt were never really on my radar. I have some favorite hotels in some cities also that are not with any chain - and again, the Chase 1.5cpp redemption rate come in handy to book them.

madbrain

Yes, I know. Vietjet air is still significantly cheaper as a cash fare.

Worse from what point of view ? Not from a cost point of view, it costs fewer points or fewer dollars in every case I have seen so far.

Certainly an advantage, but that doesn't factor in to the redemption value (cpp), only more flexibility in earning the points.

pinniped

It's perhaps more common if your home program is a U.S. program. I see it once or twice a year when I'm redeeming awards on AA.

Cash price = high (which make using Thank You Points, the AA parallel to UR, expensive)
Coach award = 40k-60k R/T
F award = 50k R/T

Common spot to see these is U.S./Canada transborder or Caribbean (with slightly different miles required in some cases). Haven't tested it often on TPAC, as my go-to for TPAC were US Airways J awards pre-merger. (Most FTers would agree that those awards rocked and were a solidly better value than anyone's Y awards!!)

I'm not expert on Hyatt and have never reached Diamond with them so can't comment on what the top-tier treatment is like. But in my limited experience as a Platinum (technically a low-tier elite, but barely) they've been okay. 2 cpp on points for simple one-nighters is about what I've experienced, although no doubt some Hyatt experts can do better.

I'd argue that it's sometimes worse, sometimes not. Depends on the program, award chart, quality of the Y and J services, sometimes equipment type, actual availability of each award, etc. I find any blanket statement here like "never redeem Y" or "never redeem J/F" to be too restrictive. I want to look at all the options and decide where the optimal value lies.

The flexibility *is* part of the value. If you've ever used a flexible currency (mine is SPG) to top off an award, you know how valuable a few thousand of the *right* points at the right time can be.