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Deal Killing Blogs: List deals which were pulled, and the blogs which published them.

Deal Killing Blogs: List deals which were pulled, and the blogs which published them.

Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:26 am
  #121  
 
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Originally Posted by deant
Agree with ThereYaGo that greed kills. If you look back at when the Mint died, was it due to bloggers? Probably not. It was due to people who were ordering tens of thousands of dollars at a time of the coins. And then publishing PICTURES of all the coins. If people had limited their "purchases" of coins to a few thousand dollars at a time I am sure the mint would have lasted a lot longer and been better for everyone. But some people wanted to make as much as possible before the deal was killed.
Actually it was because some silly pickles blabbed to the WSJ.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:27 am
  #122  
 
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Originally Posted by spankytoes
You seem...angry

Do you have evidence to support that recon teams don't monitor FT threads to see if their promos are being exploited? Afterall, this is the #1 forum for discussions of this sort. Bloggers make deals more visable, but the source of the deal typically starts right here. To me, it make much more sense to monitor the source instead of the carbon copies that have been "dumbed down" for those that don't speak IATA.

If bloggers were greedy pigs...why would they heavily contribute to the demise of great churns/deals and ruin their personal gravy train? I actually applaud the fact that there are those that take the time to package information so that the layman can enrich themselves without guarantee of financial gain. You don't HAVE to apply for credit cards through a blogger's link. Unless you pay a monthly fee for the information, which is not a sustainable business model given the numerous sites stating the same thing for free, I don't see how it could be much more than a hobby. If it is, you better be damn good at what you do...which takes hours of research and a little trial and error. You're saying that isn't worth a little money? Thousands of financial advisors are awaiting your answer with baited breath. (And doctors, and lawyers and any other profession where you are paid to be the "expert" using publically available information)

P.S. I am not a blogger

In other news, global warming is not happening, cigarettes don't cause cancer, asbestos is safe for you, the Earth is flat, the Earth is the center of the Universe, evolution is false, Oxy is not addictive, and god created the Universe in 7 days and there's a teapot in orbit around Mars...after all nobody can conclusively prove the opposite.

Last edited by mia; Nov 19, 2012 at 12:24 pm Reason: Removed personal attack
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:28 am
  #123  
 
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Originally Posted by mile ho
BTW, I do think there are many responsible bloggers. Having said that...

There is a huge difference between what happens on a blog that spells everything out with circles, highlights, multiple pics and more and what happens even on FT. In times past, many deals that were being discussed on FT were back page deals. Not too many knew about them and those who did weren't interested in making them known far and wide. Some of the best deals I've ever been a part of were very quiet ones that existed on FT. When they are on FT alone, the exposure was far, far, far less.

Now then, here's the problem. Some bloggers take deals that could live for a much longer time and overexpose them, shining a spotlight on them and encouraging thousands to take advantage of them. They SPOON FEED the details (creating an elaborate, step by step picture; creating a billboard of sorts) to the masses and then you have a huge run. It is way too easy for those who are sponsoring the deal to see EXACTLY how it's being exploited. Company execs ARE NOT going to take the time to read the thousands and thousands of posts on FT. But when you take it mainstream via multiple blogs and spell it all out... you are in effect, rubbing their noses in it. The bloggers A+B+C diagrams are offensive to the companies they are exploiting. Humiliating, even. And if you can't figure that one out, I can't help you.

Spelling it out in such a succinct and public way is going to kill the deal.

If you were a company exec and you saw some of the blogs touting in such a public way how they were going to take money from you over and over and over again (and encouraging so many others to do the same) would you sit still?

It is no secret that more and more private forums are being created. Those backpage deals that used to be on FT? Guess where they are now.
Then it becomes a question of ethics.

Is it better for a small group of people to steal a penny out of the jar thousands of times or a large group to steal a penny hundreds of times? While the latter may end up costing more, its still stealing in either instance. Neither one is more noble than the other.

Thats pretty much the attitude being taken against bloggers. While nothing being discussed is technically stealing, you would have to agree that loopholes in an otherwise generous offering are being exploited to maximize the gain. The question then becomes how long is the gravy train going to last for me personally? I doubt that many here are disappointed that a deal gets shut down because others werent able to fully take advantage of the situation. When it affects you personally, then it becomes an issue.

Then we can travel a little further down the rabbit hole and debate what constitutes a great deal. I would argue that the Club Carlson offering of the last two years was a pretty damn good deal. This was covered extensively by any blogger with an account onlineyet it didnt get shut down. It was very easy to exploit:

-Enlist 4 other people to check-in to a Radisson, Country Inn and Park Inn (Avg. of $100.00 per stay)
-Earn 138,000 points X 5 + normal earnings (Approx. 720,000 points)
-Transfer all points into a singular account (Free to do via Club Carlsons rules)
-Convert 420,000 points into 80,000 AA miles

Net: 2 roundtrip tickets to Paris and 6 nights in a 5* hotel for $1,500.00 + $200.00 in taxes or $850.00 per person. Or, for the more adventurous, 126,000 AA miles for converting all your points, which is a first class ticket at a fraction of the price or a heck of a start to an around-the-world journey.

Do you think that Club Carlson had this in mind when they put those promos out theretwice?

Like others have said, I think that other factors contributed heavily to deals getting shut down. (I.E. Mint, Bluebird, etc.) While they were done legitimately, sooner or later someone was going to take notice that the same person was ordering thousands of $1.00 coins every 10 days. Then it becomes a question of laundering and a potential fraud investigation. If many people are doing it, that subsides a bit and then the shift goes to why? In all fairness, the deal was essentially a round the corner for a cash advance without the exorbitant credit card fees associated with such. Despite the mileage earned, there was huge potential to defraud your credit card agreement costing the banks millions. Its then a principle vs. conscience debate, but no matter how you slice it, its stealing in one form or another. Its simply victimless from where we sit. No one feels sorry for The Man when youre living it up on a beach in Thailand.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:36 am
  #124  
 
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Originally Posted by mile ho
BTW, I do think there are many responsible bloggers. Having said that...

There is a huge difference between what happens on a blog that spells everything out with circles, highlights, multiple pics and more and what happens even on FT. In times past, many deals that were being discussed on FT were back page deals. Not too many knew about them and those who did weren't interested in making them known far and wide. Some of the best deals I've ever been a part of were very quiet ones that existed on FT. When they are on FT alone, the exposure was far, far, far less.
have you read the comments on MMS from the post http://millionmilesecrets.com/2012/1...-reload-cards/
may of the readers are now confused because they bought the vanilla card that his picture had the big red "x" through and now dont know what to do since they have 500 tied up in this card that they cant afford to even with his detailed explination with pictures to show the exact one you need, many readers can not get this right, these poeple will get frustrated with "manufacturing spend" and not try it again, just like many get frustrated with credit card sign ups(they cant remember when to cancel to avoid annual fees, or they make a late payment, or miss a payment and a high interest rate is there)
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:37 am
  #125  
 
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Originally Posted by ThereYaGo
Agree that this is more likely. Hard to specifically say "VFTW" caused it. Also, hard to blame him when he says to use discretion yet I read peeps bragging on FT about walking out with 10 VR in one day. That would raise some eyebrows if it happened over and over and is not how a deal is maintained. Greed kills.
I disagree. This deal had been going on for many moons, in large quantities, until circles and arrows came out on the blogs with Bluebird. The "fraud" is the easy excuse. If the VR's come back to OD, then we'll know it was because of "fraud", and they tightened the safety procedures. If they don't come back, it wasn't because of fraud, but overexposure.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:39 am
  #126  
 
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Originally Posted by abcx
In other news, global warming is not happening, cigarettes don't cause cancer, asbestos is safe for you, the Earth is flat, the Earth is the center of the Universe, evolution is false, Oxy is not addictive, and god created the Universe in 7 days and there's a teapot in orbit around Mars...after all nobody can conclusively prove the opposite.

The posters on this thread defending the bloggers remind me of a great George Carlin quote: Think of how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that.


Do you want to know why people rush to the buffet and load up their plates? It’s because of the fear that they may not get a slice of pie before the restaurant stops restocking. Would you rather spend $1,000.00 at a time knowing full well that the deal will be killed in the future or $10,000 at a time to make sure that you get yours before the loophole is closed? There’s no honor is taking the slow route if you have little to show for it in the end. That is the world we live in these days. Companies (and the government) are making it harder to enrich your travel funds so you hit a deal, and hit is hard, before someone takes it away. I'm in this game for me, not you.

While I agree that FT is a community of like minded people that offer sage advice, it’s all about growing your own stockpile first. Let’s not kid ourselves on that. I’m not advocating that bloggers don’t play a role in visibility, but to suggest that they are the sole reason that “backpage deals” are being shut down is ridiculous. There is simply no evidence to suggest that this is the case. Not everyone on FT is an expert and it could very well stem from people taking their limited knowledge gained on this forum and raising red flags. We just don't know. Bloggers are a scapegoat because they earn some kickbacks by promoting some deals over others. I've seen several news reports on the happenings over here and I have to believe that those reach a broader audience and alert "the authorities" that something in amiss.

Last edited by mia; Nov 23, 2012 at 4:42 am Reason: Prune quotation and reply to removed personal remark.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:51 am
  #127  
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Originally Posted by HikerT
These threads play out like climate change debate. First you have the deniers that change is occurring. Then you have those who won't deny reality but will debate the cause...
Except those who claim the deal climate is changing because of blogs don't have any scientific proof, only their conviction that it must be so.

It appears that abcx's idea of proof is to call those who disagree with him names. Sorry, abcx, but you have no proof. You only have supposition.

Last edited by mia; Nov 23, 2012 at 4:43 am Reason: Combine consecutive replies
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:52 am
  #128  
 
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Originally Posted by mile ho
The bloggers A+B+C diagrams are offensive to the companies they are exploiting. Humiliating, even. And if you can't figure that one out, I can't help you.

Spelling it out in such a succinct and public way is going to kill the deal.

If you were a company exec and you saw some of the blogs touting in such a public way how they were going to take money from you over and over and over again (and encouraging so many others to do the same) would you sit still?
I'm no huge fan of Dariaus -- exactly how many pictures of Emily do we need? I can let the pics in the trip reports slide just a little, but the ones he has of her holding credit cards just come across to me as really slimy, and I have called him out on that.

But honestly, I'm not so sure that the circles and arrows are what kills deals. Anything that comes close to being a miles and points perpetuity machine is going to get killed, period. I think your usage of the word "humiliating" is over the top here.

I think promotions fall into two categories: Honest promotions with no strings attached, designed to be taken at face value. The second are promotions of the bait and switch variety, where I really have no intention of delivering on the true spirit of the words in big bold font that I want you to read.

I'd have to figure than an exec running a promotion of the former kind would like as much exposure as he can get, up to the limit of his marketing budget. And if it's profitable, he wants all of the exposure he can get, period, and bloggers with circles and arrows do his marketing for him -- for free.

But if he's running a promotion of the later type, yes the arrows and circles showing you how to take advantage of said promotion in the most cost effective way possible are going to irk the exec. But you know what? I have no tolerance for that type of marketing, so if the deal gets yanked, then so be it.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:57 am
  #129  
 
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Originally Posted by PaulMSN
It appears that abcx's idea of proof is to call those who disagree with him names. Sorry, abcx, but you have no proof. You only have supposition.
You must be one of those who think cigarettes don't cause cancer. If the causation between blogs publicizing deals and deals dying isn't obvious to people, well, what can I say?

Last edited by mia; Nov 19, 2012 at 12:22 pm Reason: Remove personal attack.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:23 pm
  #130  
 
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Originally Posted by abcx
You must be one of those who think cigarettes don't cause cancer. If the causation between blogs publicizing deals and deals dying isn't obvious to people, well, what can I say? Clearly the education system isn't doing its job if people can't identify correlation and causation when they see it...

I'm going to publish a paper in Nature with your desired scientific proof next week.
If you are going scientific make sure to remove all other variables (aka impossible to do)

Don't forget about other forums with much more publicity such as SD & FW too. I would be VERY surprised if a deal is killed that is published on FT & travel blogs only. Usually the deals that get killed have 100k+ page views at a minimum on SD & FW....
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:33 pm
  #131  
 
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Originally Posted by abcx
You must be one of those who think cigarettes don't cause cancer. If the causation between blogs publicizing deals and deals dying isn't obvious to people, well, what can I say?
You keep saying this, but it doesnt make any sense. Youre advocating an extension of the gun control debate:

If 100 people own guns, and 1 person commits a crime with their gun, are guns now evil?

There are two valid arguments:

1. 100 guns make it 100 times more likely that a crime will be committed with a gun

2. 99% of gun owners did not commit a crime and therefore it is the individual that is at fault, not the gun itself

You can skew the stats to fit your argument for either case. There is now documented proof that guns can cause violence and there is also proof that the vast majority of gun owners use them responsibly and therefore should not be punished.

The examples that you posted have been backed by scientific FACT. We know that the earth is not flat and that cigarettes can (not will) cause cancer. You cannot point to any instance where a company/exec/lobby secretary has blamed the demise of a deal on a blogger. It simply doesnt exist beyond speculation. Like the gun example above, there is no way to gauge if having 10 gun owners or 100 gun owners is safer as the individual is the control. The quantity of exposure doesnt necessarily correlate to the end result. Why? If you place 100 guns in the hands of housewives vs. gang members, the variables have now changed. We can assume that one group is safer than the other, but the results may not necessarily reflect that.

How do you know that:

-People on FT werent squeezing a deal in large quantities
-People were legitimately interested in obtaining a service independent of a miles/points run (Using a credit card to pay bills is a 30 day interest free loan after all)
-There was a miscommunication between the vendor and the merchant on payment methods that was later corrected
-The government didnt step in and put the kibosh on a deal due to potential for laundering or fraud

You dont, and have not shown any proof that this is the caseso stop pretending that you do.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:46 pm
  #132  
 
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let's see how this works every few weeks:
1. start a new thread about bloggers

2. add some wine and cheese about every deal that gets killed

3. waste a lot of space on flyertalk

4. rinse and repeat

IBTL!

perhaps I should start a thread about people who complain too much on FT!
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:50 pm
  #133  
 
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this thread is serious awesomeness. just enjoyed reading some very entertaining posts.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:52 pm
  #134  
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Well let me know if I am off base....

I think can agree that no blogger can be blamed 100% for killing a deal.

Now, any time more and more people get to know of a deal, it gets closer to getting shutdown. Therefore, the bloggers are contributing to the demise of deals.

At las, we are all killing deals when we discuss them here, but, the bloggers reach A LOT more people and lately have been spoon feeding information so even more people can take part.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 1:00 pm
  #135  
 
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Originally Posted by srdshelly
I'm suspecting most of the people reading this thread, except for the truly embittered, will learn of a couple more blogs they might want to check out. I think it's strange to think that any one blog "kills" any one deal. Maybe it's the insiders "going big" that really kill them. And maybe they're the ones that will be bad for all of us with their silly "oh, we were cheated because you promised a $75 bonus for $1.50 in spend and we took you at your word" lawsuits.
Highlighting mine.

Insiders were hitting the mint heavy for a long time with no ill effects. It wasn't until step by step instructions with pictures were posted that things started to go downhill. And downhill quickly. Insiders know how to keep their mouths shut in order to keep the deal going. What happens IMHO, is that people want to seem like they are contributing. So they post step by step, when they bought, outcome of buy etc etc. Even if it has been posted a dozen times before.

All these postings just keep those threads on top, garnering more and more traffic.

One of the main problems I have always felt, are the masses wanting to be spoon fed and refusing to read, search or do their do diligence. So often questions are asked, when the answer is just a few posts previous to theirs.

Threads get longer and longer because the same stupid questions get asked over and over and over again. Should anyone be excluded from a deal? Of course not. But - how can I say this. Nothing in this world is just handed to you. Do you get the job just because you applied? Does the student get an "A" just for handing in a paper? No, you get rewarded because you are willing to put some work and effort into the endeavor. And I see miles/points in the same way. They are a form of currency and should be treated as such.
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