Deal Killing Blogs: List deals which were pulled, and the blogs which published them.
#136
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Land of the parrots and parrotheads
Programs: Several dozen
Posts: 4,820
My take on ethics is just what I read in the paper. Over here we had a bailiff's wife who stole vouchers from Southwest Airlines and her husband took them to the courthouse to sell to the judges and the county district attorney. Now these vouchers were marked not for sale and are not ordinarily sold by shady bailiffs in courthouses for cash. Yet not a single judge or the district attorney was charged for receiving stolen property. In fact the district attorney was later given a position of honor leading the pledge of allegiance at a Republican Senatorial Convention!
So as I understand it from these fine, upstanding government officials - there is no such thing as ethics or justice, just corruption and injustice.
But then in walks the Lone Flyertalker who legally and systematically offers to stand up for ethics and justice by removing all the temptation for public officials to fly free. He removes literally tons of dollars of frequent flyer miles temptation from the system and relentlessly works to purge the world of these frequent flyer miles which are the root of all evil. But is that Lone Flyertalker appreciated? Nooooo - he is financially reviewed, then accused of stealing pennies by somebody called Spankytoes.
Oh where is the justice in the world? As I told you before, Spankytoes, the millions of pennies in my jar are all legal - they came with my millions of orders for dollar coins from Littleton!
So as I understand it from these fine, upstanding government officials - there is no such thing as ethics or justice, just corruption and injustice.
But then in walks the Lone Flyertalker who legally and systematically offers to stand up for ethics and justice by removing all the temptation for public officials to fly free. He removes literally tons of dollars of frequent flyer miles temptation from the system and relentlessly works to purge the world of these frequent flyer miles which are the root of all evil. But is that Lone Flyertalker appreciated? Nooooo - he is financially reviewed, then accused of stealing pennies by somebody called Spankytoes.
Oh where is the justice in the world? As I told you before, Spankytoes, the millions of pennies in my jar are all legal - they came with my millions of orders for dollar coins from Littleton!
Then it becomes a question of ethics.
Is it better for a small group of people to steal a penny out of the jar thousands of times or a large group to steal a penny hundreds of times? While the latter may end up costing more, its still stealing in either instance. Neither one is more noble than the other.
Thats pretty much the attitude being taken against bloggers. While nothing being discussed is technically stealing, you would have to agree that loopholes in an otherwise generous offering are being exploited to maximize the gain. The question then becomes how long is the gravy train going to last for me personally? I doubt that many here are disappointed that a deal gets shut down because others werent able to fully take advantage of the situation. When it affects you personally, then it becomes an issue.
Then we can travel a little further down the rabbit hole and debate what constitutes a great deal. I would argue that the Club Carlson offering of the last two years was a pretty damn good deal. This was covered extensively by any blogger with an account onlineyet it didnt get shut down. It was very easy to exploit:
-Enlist 4 other people to check-in to a Radisson, Country Inn and Park Inn (Avg. of $100.00 per stay)
-Earn 138,000 points X 5 + normal earnings (Approx. 720,000 points)
-Transfer all points into a singular account (Free to do via Club Carlsons rules)
-Convert 420,000 points into 80,000 AA miles
Net: 2 roundtrip tickets to Paris and 6 nights in a 5* hotel for $1,500.00 + $200.00 in taxes or $850.00 per person. Or, for the more adventurous, 126,000 AA miles for converting all your points, which is a first class ticket at a fraction of the price or a heck of a start to an around-the-world journey.
Do you think that Club Carlson had this in mind when they put those promos out theretwice?
Like others have said, I think that other factors contributed heavily to deals getting shut down. (I.E. Mint, Bluebird, etc.) While they were done legitimately, sooner or later someone was going to take notice that the same person was ordering thousands of $1.00 coins every 10 days. Then it becomes a question of laundering and a potential fraud investigation. If many people are doing it, that subsides a bit and then the shift goes to why? In all fairness, the deal was essentially a round the corner for a cash advance without the exorbitant credit card fees associated with such. Despite the mileage earned, there was huge potential to defraud your credit card agreement costing the banks millions. Its then a principle vs. conscience debate, but no matter how you slice it, its stealing in one form or another. Its simply victimless from where we sit. No one feels sorry for The Man when youre living it up on a beach in Thailand.
Is it better for a small group of people to steal a penny out of the jar thousands of times or a large group to steal a penny hundreds of times? While the latter may end up costing more, its still stealing in either instance. Neither one is more noble than the other.
Thats pretty much the attitude being taken against bloggers. While nothing being discussed is technically stealing, you would have to agree that loopholes in an otherwise generous offering are being exploited to maximize the gain. The question then becomes how long is the gravy train going to last for me personally? I doubt that many here are disappointed that a deal gets shut down because others werent able to fully take advantage of the situation. When it affects you personally, then it becomes an issue.
Then we can travel a little further down the rabbit hole and debate what constitutes a great deal. I would argue that the Club Carlson offering of the last two years was a pretty damn good deal. This was covered extensively by any blogger with an account onlineyet it didnt get shut down. It was very easy to exploit:
-Enlist 4 other people to check-in to a Radisson, Country Inn and Park Inn (Avg. of $100.00 per stay)
-Earn 138,000 points X 5 + normal earnings (Approx. 720,000 points)
-Transfer all points into a singular account (Free to do via Club Carlsons rules)
-Convert 420,000 points into 80,000 AA miles
Net: 2 roundtrip tickets to Paris and 6 nights in a 5* hotel for $1,500.00 + $200.00 in taxes or $850.00 per person. Or, for the more adventurous, 126,000 AA miles for converting all your points, which is a first class ticket at a fraction of the price or a heck of a start to an around-the-world journey.
Do you think that Club Carlson had this in mind when they put those promos out theretwice?
Like others have said, I think that other factors contributed heavily to deals getting shut down. (I.E. Mint, Bluebird, etc.) While they were done legitimately, sooner or later someone was going to take notice that the same person was ordering thousands of $1.00 coins every 10 days. Then it becomes a question of laundering and a potential fraud investigation. If many people are doing it, that subsides a bit and then the shift goes to why? In all fairness, the deal was essentially a round the corner for a cash advance without the exorbitant credit card fees associated with such. Despite the mileage earned, there was huge potential to defraud your credit card agreement costing the banks millions. Its then a principle vs. conscience debate, but no matter how you slice it, its stealing in one form or another. Its simply victimless from where we sit. No one feels sorry for The Man when youre living it up on a beach in Thailand.
#137
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,758
You and many others want proof? Do you also want proof the sun will rise tomorrow? Here is your proof. There are many deals that have been working for years that are well known on private forums. These eventually make their way to the bloggers/FT/bloggers (a vicious circle) and then all of a sudden they die. This happens over and over again. A fifth grader can figure this one out.
#138
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG & IHG Plat, & every airline program that I can join
Posts: 2,279
Sorry guys, I killed the staples paper towel deal.
Nevermind, back in stock! Get your 5x off paper towels at Staples! Time to hoard 1,000 paper towels and get 5X points. LOL
Nevermind, back in stock! Get your 5x off paper towels at Staples! Time to hoard 1,000 paper towels and get 5X points. LOL
JudyJFLA
#139
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: AL
Programs: All of the Above
Posts: 1,374
You and many others want proof? Do you also want proof the sun will rise tomorrow? Here is your proof. There are many deals that have been working for years that are well known on private forums. These eventually make their way to the bloggers/FT/bloggers (a vicious circle) and then all of a sudden they die. This happens over and over again. A fifth grader can figure this one out.
#140
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Land of the parrots and parrotheads
Programs: Several dozen
Posts: 4,820
Yeah, and then there are the deals that get killed by boinkers. We were all doing fine over at the First Bank of the Spook and then along came Petraeus. Now we can't even get into the place because it is surrounded by all those reporters.
You and many others want proof? Do you also want proof the sun will rise tomorrow? Here is your proof. There are many deals that have been working for years that are well known on private forums. These eventually make their way to the bloggers/FT/bloggers (a vicious circle) and then all of a sudden they die. This happens over and over again. A fifth grader can figure this one out.
#141
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,758
Like anything else when the front door is locked always check the back door.
#142
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,125
No analogy is perfect. But please consider my tale.
There once was a grocery store that offered triple coupons. For years and years people would take their coupons in and use them judiciously. Each of the couponers spent a fair amount of time researching where to find their cents-off gold and clipping them from the Sunday paper. On occasion someone would bring in a bevy and pay half price for their groceries. But all the while the promotion continued as usual until one day...
A person who knew how the system worked set up shop on the corner. They promised to provided any and all coupons for countless items in the store. People began to line up there before going to shop. People who hadn't used coupons previously, either because they didn't know about them or weren't willing to spend the time to acquire them, began to use them with abandon.
A week later the store stopped accepting coupons.
Just a story I made up.
And BTW, using coupons is not stealing.
There once was a grocery store that offered triple coupons. For years and years people would take their coupons in and use them judiciously. Each of the couponers spent a fair amount of time researching where to find their cents-off gold and clipping them from the Sunday paper. On occasion someone would bring in a bevy and pay half price for their groceries. But all the while the promotion continued as usual until one day...
A person who knew how the system worked set up shop on the corner. They promised to provided any and all coupons for countless items in the store. People began to line up there before going to shop. People who hadn't used coupons previously, either because they didn't know about them or weren't willing to spend the time to acquire them, began to use them with abandon.
A week later the store stopped accepting coupons.
Just a story I made up.
And BTW, using coupons is not stealing.
#143
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA, AA, US, DL, PC Plat, Dollar, Avis, National, SPG, HH Gold, CC Gold
Posts: 1,212
I have to agree with Tiki (post 75) and his summation of the demise of the GrandSlam. the GS went on for I believe 8 years, each year getting bigger and better. Then last year it hit the blogs hard with details of how to get tens of thousands of miles for less than $100. As soon as GS was over, bloggers started talking about how to set up for next year's GS. The upshot? No GS. Really did we need to have things outlined on how to set up for next year's GS? If you can not figure that one out yourself.... But, those posts were to generate traffic, even without knowing if the GS was to be repeated. So, many newbies are sitting on points in erewards and e-miles, wondering what to do with them.
The blogger from Texas also had a prime time slot at the Chicago Seminars specifically to talk about the GS. Since that never happened, she had little to contribute to the seminar. You would have thought that she would have had something to pull out of her hat.
The blogger from Texas also had a prime time slot at the Chicago Seminars specifically to talk about the GS. Since that never happened, she had little to contribute to the seminar. You would have thought that she would have had something to pull out of her hat.
#144
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,734
Credit card companies seem to have no problem with people signing up for their cards. Maybe a majority of those people signing up from these blogs aren't churning? Ads supplement the cost of running a site.. Credit card referrals bring the profit.. and "spoon feeding the deals" drives the traffic. Shopping portals can bring a spike to their income, but are mostly a small supplement to their income.
#145
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,734
Anyone agree with the idea that these are ideas put out to people on a public forum? If you have a good idea and don't want it to be killed, don't publish it. If you want to get involved with private forums go for it! I don't believe anyone should say that they are entitled to any of these deals. The only thing I see a major negative is that some people jump in with out analyzing the risk. What if you could have loaded $10k per month on your BB card and they stopped allowing you to send payments and withdraw from an ATM? You'd have a lot of money tied in it correct?
I think it's great that bloggers have to post when they are making a commission. I also think it is great when they post about maintaining a credit score and how to build one. Not sure why there is not the same type of thing when posting about these "major deals." I read frugal travel guy from time to time, maybe 1/30 of what I use to... I was kind of surprised there was not any type of lash-back after the Suntrust Delta card fiasco. I feel like as long as what they are doing is legal, that people are coming to their page, and they are able to make money that they will continue to exist and you should not waste your time getting too upset over this.
I think it's great that bloggers have to post when they are making a commission. I also think it is great when they post about maintaining a credit score and how to build one. Not sure why there is not the same type of thing when posting about these "major deals." I read frugal travel guy from time to time, maybe 1/30 of what I use to... I was kind of surprised there was not any type of lash-back after the Suntrust Delta card fiasco. I feel like as long as what they are doing is legal, that people are coming to their page, and they are able to make money that they will continue to exist and you should not waste your time getting too upset over this.
#146
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ATL
Posts: 347
people keep asking for scientific proof.... come on. this is not a science, and there won't be any. Despite Frequent Miler having a lab . Unless we have people here that are part of the marketing/IT/management teams of the companies that have shut down these deals we will never know the definitive reasons for the shutdown, but.......
IMO there are too many deals that have worked for extended times, then quickly die once blogged, and blogged, and re-posted, and hat tipped about incessantly, untill any related search for something ends up showing all the boarding area blogs in googles top ranking. Publicity kills the deal, what the official decision is to shut it down is irrelevant. The publicity pushes it over that cliff. There is too much coorelary historical evidence of this for me to support any other conclusion.
IMO there are too many deals that have worked for extended times, then quickly die once blogged, and blogged, and re-posted, and hat tipped about incessantly, untill any related search for something ends up showing all the boarding area blogs in googles top ranking. Publicity kills the deal, what the official decision is to shut it down is irrelevant. The publicity pushes it over that cliff. There is too much coorelary historical evidence of this for me to support any other conclusion.
#147
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,734
So are you saying there is a difference if you find a deal? Say frugaltravelguy finds a great deal that has not been given to him by someone else... So is it ok if he posts it on the blog and benefits from the increase in traffic and credit card sign ups?
#148
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,125
IMO there are too many deals that have worked for extended times, then quickly die once blogged, and blogged, and re-posted, and hat tipped about incessantly, untill any related search for something ends up showing all the boarding area blogs in googles top ranking. Publicity kills the deal, what the official decision is to shut it down is irrelevant. The publicity pushes it over that cliff. There is too much coorelary historical evidence of this for me to support any other conclusion.
And I agree Tiki's post #75 is an excellent one.
#149
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 6,344
#150
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,734
I had no problem publishing the detailed steps because no one ever told me how to do it. I figured it out on my own and yes... it was pretty simple.. but I would say that a large amount of people got to take advantage of the deal.. people claimed for long time that it would quickly get shut down and it didn't. People are still purchasing Amex gift cards, and they are also using bigcrumbs to reap rewards. Not to mention that they were getting referrals to anyone they past the idea on to. I just benefited that I was the first to spell it out in detail and provide a link.
If you post any helpful information on here other people will use it to their benefit and flyertalk will profit from their ads. Moral of the story... my opinion is that anything that is posted on here is fair game.