Why are Delta's SkyMiles called SkyPesos?
Jul 6, 2010, 5:35 pm
#61
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: mountains of western NC
Programs: Life, Love and Laughter
Posts: 8,537
Most $300 tickets are redeemable for 25K miles (should you want to redeem them for that) - are you sure you are checking correctly?
Your earlier statement implied that it was difficult to find availability for your route in September, but that's clearly not the case. Your requirement for specific dates is the hitch. Is your expectation that CO, UA, and AA will typically have two low/saver seats available on over 50% of the days for the routes you want? You are likely to find that other airlines typically require a bit of flexibility to make it work.
Your earlier statement implied that it was difficult to find availability for your route in September, but that's clearly not the case. Your requirement for specific dates is the hitch. Is your expectation that CO, UA, and AA will typically have two low/saver seats available on over 50% of the days for the routes you want? You are likely to find that other airlines typically require a bit of flexibility to make it work.
Also, I am quite satisfied getting a penny per mile out of Delta and then exiting that program.
Jul 6, 2010, 5:43 pm
#62
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 999
I try pretty regularly to find flights between ORD-MSO where my son lives. I always check Delta, can never get a flight for 25k and end up using UA miles instead. I would love to use up my remaining skypesos but haven't found a 25k flight in the last two years. I am pretty flexible with dates too.
Deb
Deb
Jul 6, 2010, 10:55 pm
#63
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BZN
Programs: AA:LT Platinum DL:LT Gold UA:1P MAR:LT Titanium
Posts: 8,291
I try pretty regularly to find flights between ORD-MSO where my son lives. I always check Delta, can never get a flight for 25k and end up using UA miles instead. I would love to use up my remaining skypesos but haven't found a 25k flight in the last two years. I am pretty flexible with dates too.
All of my experiences trying to redeem miles on Delta (over many years) have been difficult. My experiences with American have been fantastic. My UA and CO miles are new to me, so I will see how they work out. I'm glad that your experiences with Delta are good. I do understand that each person has different needs/experiences with each airline. Personally I'm kind of tired of having miles on five different airlines, and my intention is to get down to two or three.
Also, I am quite satisfied getting a penny per mile out of Delta and then exiting that program.
Also, I am quite satisfied getting a penny per mile out of Delta and then exiting that program.
Jul 7, 2010, 2:04 am
#64
Join Date: May 2009
Location: USA
Programs: UAL 1MM, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist, AA 3MM
Posts: 831
As far as I am concerned Delta does not exist. I stopped flying them in 1990 and will never fly them again. I dont understand why FTs continue to spend money with bad companies.
Jul 7, 2010, 2:58 am
#65
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: eastern Europe & NC
Posts: 4,527
But we will always have the DL apologists claiming DL is wonderful. Some like Mooper, who told us he is a large shareholder of DL, reveal the reasons for that position, and some don't.
Jul 7, 2010, 3:14 am
#66
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: eastern Europe & NC
Posts: 4,527
With the pre- Jeff Robertson DL, I had no trouble using 50K miles for high season TATL redemptions on DL. Now with Robertson's stinking 3-tier chart the lowest is 60K and so far I cannot find that in high season at all. I considered myself lucky to find a shoulder season TATL ticket on DL at low miles for a relative, even though it had overnight layovers both directions and didn't go quite all the way to the city she really wanted on the outbound. DL redemptions have fallen very far from what they were in the pre-Robertson era. Jeff Robertson is the worst thing that has ever happened to SM, even worse than Rob Borden, who was pretty bad himself.
One thing I note of all of those who crow about finding a low miles TATL award ticket is that they always seem to neglect mentioning what season it was. A low season award ticket is nothing to crow about, and a shoulder season one barely is. In the pre-Robertson era, I would never have even considered wasting miles on any TATL award ticket that was not high season. Now, I guess, beggers can't be choosers.
DL is now an awful, awful, awful program.
One thing I note of all of those who crow about finding a low miles TATL award ticket is that they always seem to neglect mentioning what season it was. A low season award ticket is nothing to crow about, and a shoulder season one barely is. In the pre-Robertson era, I would never have even considered wasting miles on any TATL award ticket that was not high season. Now, I guess, beggers can't be choosers.
DL is now an awful, awful, awful program.
There's a whole lot of complaining about DL miles, but I think much of this is unwarranted. I am among those who have very little problems using DL miles. In fact, I have redeemed over 4 million DL miles at the "Low" level since the beginning of 2009, all for international C/F trips. Only one of these trips was a mixed Low/Medium (150k RT to Europe) trip, all others were Low (100k to Europe, 120k to Asia, 140k for SQ F). The "Low" awards are out there, and even if you can't get all-Low trips, with a little bit of knowledge about the constraints of the program (searching/timing), you can always at least get a mixed Low/Medium award.
Regarding Domestic Trips: Try booking a domestic trip in the next few months with any alliance, and you will find that Saver awards on AA and UA are extremely hard to come by. I've done over two dozen award redemptions this year -on all alliances-, and done probably thousands of searches for availability. And I can tell you that it's much easier to get TATL/TPAC C/F flights than the domestic feeder flight. Spend a few minutes clicking through the ANA tool to see how many available seats on PDX-ORD flights there are in the entire month of August. You'll see that there literally are weeks where there is no availability at all (you can even try ORD-DEN, and despite the dozen or so daily flights UA has on that route, no more than a few will have open Saver seats). Similar picture for PDX-DFW on AA (check their calendar for available seats, just takes a few minutes). People repeat the mantra that UA/AA have oh so vastly superior award availability, but right now, the fact is that for most travelers, all miles are extremely hard to use. In fact, I would posit that for anyone looking for a domestic trip in Summer 2010, DL miles are worth more than AA/UA, because you have a very high likelihood of being able to use these miles at the "medium" level (40k), which is lower than "Standard" seats on AA/UA (50k).
Regarding international travel: I also don't agree with the assertion that DL miles are useless for international trips. Much will depend on your origin/departure, and even more will depend on your ability to do a search that reveals all the options. I won't argue that DL availability is as good as UA/AA for TPAC/TATL flights (it clearly is not), but the superior availability on UA/AA for TATL/TPAC flights buys you very little if you can't use your UA/AA miles to get from your hometown to ORD/SFO/IAD/whatever. When you factor in partner availability, DL can be quite competitive, but again, this will depend on origin/destination and search skills.
Imo, there is plenty of "Low" availability -- if you know where to look, and depending on your travel patterns. In cases where "Low" is not available, DL inventory at the "Medium" level unlocks vastly superior availability than UA/AA Saver, and thus there are plenty of situations where DL miles are indeed useful.
Regarding Domestic Trips: Try booking a domestic trip in the next few months with any alliance, and you will find that Saver awards on AA and UA are extremely hard to come by. I've done over two dozen award redemptions this year -on all alliances-, and done probably thousands of searches for availability. And I can tell you that it's much easier to get TATL/TPAC C/F flights than the domestic feeder flight. Spend a few minutes clicking through the ANA tool to see how many available seats on PDX-ORD flights there are in the entire month of August. You'll see that there literally are weeks where there is no availability at all (you can even try ORD-DEN, and despite the dozen or so daily flights UA has on that route, no more than a few will have open Saver seats). Similar picture for PDX-DFW on AA (check their calendar for available seats, just takes a few minutes). People repeat the mantra that UA/AA have oh so vastly superior award availability, but right now, the fact is that for most travelers, all miles are extremely hard to use. In fact, I would posit that for anyone looking for a domestic trip in Summer 2010, DL miles are worth more than AA/UA, because you have a very high likelihood of being able to use these miles at the "medium" level (40k), which is lower than "Standard" seats on AA/UA (50k).
Regarding international travel: I also don't agree with the assertion that DL miles are useless for international trips. Much will depend on your origin/departure, and even more will depend on your ability to do a search that reveals all the options. I won't argue that DL availability is as good as UA/AA for TPAC/TATL flights (it clearly is not), but the superior availability on UA/AA for TATL/TPAC flights buys you very little if you can't use your UA/AA miles to get from your hometown to ORD/SFO/IAD/whatever. When you factor in partner availability, DL can be quite competitive, but again, this will depend on origin/destination and search skills.
Imo, there is plenty of "Low" availability -- if you know where to look, and depending on your travel patterns. In cases where "Low" is not available, DL inventory at the "Medium" level unlocks vastly superior availability than UA/AA Saver, and thus there are plenty of situations where DL miles are indeed useful.
Jul 7, 2010, 4:05 am
#67
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BZN
Programs: AA:LT Platinum DL:LT Gold UA:1P MAR:LT Titanium
Posts: 8,291
The vast majority of their revenues and profits come from their domestic operations, and in this area, their perks to status holders and award availability within the 48 contiguous states is absolutely superb, including when compared to their peers. In this thread and others, I've explained the sources of confusion and how to work around them.
Even in the international award arena, their weakest link, there is some value to be found. Jpdx, someone who redeems millions of Skymiles and therefore has the experience of dozens of average users combined, highlights some of this in the "regarding international travel" of his earlier post. That said, Delta still lags behind the competition in international award availability for many markets, plus they have award calendar issues complicating the matter. Do these weaknesses make Skymiles an "awful program"? Hardly. Perhaps a very unappealing one for someone who seeks to primarily redeem miles internationally from certain markets, but definitely not for a domestic redeemer who holds status and knows how to leverage it.
Jul 7, 2010, 4:38 am
#68
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AA EXP2M, DL 1MM DM ext, UA PP <=> HH G/Marr PE/Hyatt G/IHG P FT RA ( Recovering Addict)
Posts: 4,596
jpdx and mooper have both explained very beautifully what I could not. I am a Medallion, NOT a shareholder. I have redeemed 2.3M DL miles over the past year. My average cost to get those miles (cpm) has been lower on DL. The only thing that was better in mileage cost was one of MrPickles specialities- the Citi online savings account promotion (0 cpm - no wonder Citi went almost bankrupt) and the TIB promo last Dec on US - 0.7 cpm.
I get my DL miles for about 0.9 cpm. Take the current bounce back. I spent 100$ on gift card. Let us say I PAID to get miles (worst case scenario) by paying taxes - 2.35 c per $ spent = 60k taxes = 1410$ = 60k miles for spend + 30k bonus + 60k double miles + some MQM for status, which also I can use and get free upgrades next year. At the most expensive, I have got 150,000 miles for 1410$ = < 0.95 cpm. If I were to use the cards for purchases I would have made anyway, I get 2.5 miles for $ spent for no cost (instead of my 1.5c on a cash back card = 0.6 cpm - least expensive cost).
One should never redeem 40k miles for a 300$ ticket. In fact you should never redeem 25k miles for a 300$ ticket except in extreme situations. If I can redeem the miles for > 1cpm, I am happy that I am ahead. Usually I redeem for 1.5-3 cpm overall.
Lastly I am no apologist. I too call them skypesos at times when I am frustrated. But when I get more liberal miles (pesos) I should expect to spend them in pesos! A 25k award on DL is an incredible value as it is much easier to get (the miles) than on any other airline. I also have much better 40k inventory for more seats overall. Let the wsj or forbes or anyone else do a comparison of 25+40 DL awards vs the saver awards on others and compare the 60k with their standard awards.
I get my DL miles for about 0.9 cpm. Take the current bounce back. I spent 100$ on gift card. Let us say I PAID to get miles (worst case scenario) by paying taxes - 2.35 c per $ spent = 60k taxes = 1410$ = 60k miles for spend + 30k bonus + 60k double miles + some MQM for status, which also I can use and get free upgrades next year. At the most expensive, I have got 150,000 miles for 1410$ = < 0.95 cpm. If I were to use the cards for purchases I would have made anyway, I get 2.5 miles for $ spent for no cost (instead of my 1.5c on a cash back card = 0.6 cpm - least expensive cost).
One should never redeem 40k miles for a 300$ ticket. In fact you should never redeem 25k miles for a 300$ ticket except in extreme situations. If I can redeem the miles for > 1cpm, I am happy that I am ahead. Usually I redeem for 1.5-3 cpm overall.
Lastly I am no apologist. I too call them skypesos at times when I am frustrated. But when I get more liberal miles (pesos) I should expect to spend them in pesos! A 25k award on DL is an incredible value as it is much easier to get (the miles) than on any other airline. I also have much better 40k inventory for more seats overall. Let the wsj or forbes or anyone else do a comparison of 25+40 DL awards vs the saver awards on others and compare the 60k with their standard awards.
Last edited by ffI; Jul 7, 2010 at 4:43 am
Jul 7, 2010, 4:54 am
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,539
I have burned more than 2 million miles since the beginning of 2009. Most were burned while I could still book with NW. The ease of booking on NW was what I was used to, and that is sadly, long gone.
I have booked about 300k in awards since DL took the whole show over. I wouldn't say it was easy in any regard. My first experience I'd equate to a root canal. Not any fun, but you're glad when it's all done.
If you know how to master the system, DL can give you some good options. I'd say less than 1% of people know how to do it. The award calendar and very limited international awards are big problems. I'm sure that DL just loves people to use 2x more miles or more for awards.
I have booked about 300k in awards since DL took the whole show over. I wouldn't say it was easy in any regard. My first experience I'd equate to a root canal. Not any fun, but you're glad when it's all done.
If you know how to master the system, DL can give you some good options. I'd say less than 1% of people know how to do it. The award calendar and very limited international awards are big problems. I'm sure that DL just loves people to use 2x more miles or more for awards.
Jul 7, 2010, 5:25 am
#70
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DCA
Programs: AMC MovieWatcher, Giant BonusCard, Petco PALS Card, Silver Diner Blue Plate Club
Posts: 22,297
Is *is* possible to use Delta miles. It's just harder to use them for high value awards than it is to use miles from other major North American programs.
Claims that "I managed to get an award" do not refute that.
I have redeemed well over 50 million miles in the past year across many different programs for myself and many others and I can tell you that I would much rather have miles with CO, UA, AA, US, AS, AC... SPG and Amex MR... BD, BA, LH M&M... over DL miles.
I do earn DL miles when they are easy easy easy to acquire. When they offer 10k miles for a 1-day Avis/Budget rental, I'll do that. But I will not spend a penny a mile to acquire them. Too little upside.
Claims that "I managed to get an award" do not refute that.
I have redeemed well over 50 million miles in the past year across many different programs for myself and many others and I can tell you that I would much rather have miles with CO, UA, AA, US, AS, AC... SPG and Amex MR... BD, BA, LH M&M... over DL miles.
I do earn DL miles when they are easy easy easy to acquire. When they offer 10k miles for a 1-day Avis/Budget rental, I'll do that. But I will not spend a penny a mile to acquire them. Too little upside.
Jul 7, 2010, 7:43 am
#71
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: California
Posts: 63
Is Delta aware of all the negativity (warranted or otherwise) about its program? Are they oblivious or do they just not care? I mean, is this thread a microcosm of an overall backlash against Delta?
Jul 7, 2010, 7:53 am
#72
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: DCA/IAD/BWI
Posts: 323
100K to Europe is NOT LOW
According to Delta's Skypeso chart, one-way to Europe at the low and premium categories are as follows:
Europe Coach 30,000 45,000 62,500
Premium 50,000 100,000 175,000
As such your "low" 100K to Europe at best is a premium "low", while a real low is 60K. You do really have to search and get lucky to get a cash in 60K in Skypesos for an award ticket to Europe. Though even being very flexible with my dates, the ever elusive 60K award is over a week off from when I dare to hope and dream of departing. Since I work for a living, I sadly have to live with restraints on when I can request leave. As such I may have to skip using mein 127K Skyscheiße for the wife und I to the EU and instead wasting them on a domestic award.
Also:
Deutschland 3 - 1 Espana
You heard it here first.
[QUOTE=jpdx;14251350]There's a whole lot of complaining about DL miles, but I think much of this is unwarranted. I am among those who have very little problems using DL miles. In fact, I have redeemed over 4 million DL miles at the "Low" level since the beginning of 2009, all for international C/F trips. Only one of these trips was a mixed Low/Medium (150k RT to Europe) trip, all others were Low (100k to Europe, 120k to Asia, 140k for SQ F). The "Low" awards are out there, and even if you can't get all-Low trips, with a little bit of knowledge about the constraints of the program (searching/timing), you can always at least get a mixed Low/Medium award.
Europe Coach 30,000 45,000 62,500
Premium 50,000 100,000 175,000
As such your "low" 100K to Europe at best is a premium "low", while a real low is 60K. You do really have to search and get lucky to get a cash in 60K in Skypesos for an award ticket to Europe. Though even being very flexible with my dates, the ever elusive 60K award is over a week off from when I dare to hope and dream of departing. Since I work for a living, I sadly have to live with restraints on when I can request leave. As such I may have to skip using mein 127K Skyscheiße for the wife und I to the EU and instead wasting them on a domestic award.
Also:
Deutschland 3 - 1 Espana
You heard it here first.
[QUOTE=jpdx;14251350]There's a whole lot of complaining about DL miles, but I think much of this is unwarranted. I am among those who have very little problems using DL miles. In fact, I have redeemed over 4 million DL miles at the "Low" level since the beginning of 2009, all for international C/F trips. Only one of these trips was a mixed Low/Medium (150k RT to Europe) trip, all others were Low (100k to Europe, 120k to Asia, 140k for SQ F). The "Low" awards are out there, and even if you can't get all-Low trips, with a little bit of knowledge about the constraints of the program (searching/timing), you can always at least get a mixed Low/Medium award.
Jul 7, 2010, 8:37 am
#73
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: MTA NYCTA Super Plutonium Elite
Posts: 107
That's a common misconception. It's actually a RanSoM-NoTE-stYLe random capitalization applied to "Skype SOS," implying that you're better off trying to call someone with Skype than fly to meet them on Delta.
Jul 7, 2010, 8:40 am
#74
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 143
That also leads me to suspect that there is not, in fact, a more general backlash against Delta. This board is hardly representative of the general public.
Jul 7, 2010, 8:46 am
#75
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PDX|AKL|AMS|GVA|AGP|CPT - or somewhere in between
Programs: DL DM; 2MM
Posts: 2,418
However, if you are redeeming for travel wholly within the contiguous 48 states, you are Medallion (and therefore have access to Medallion award inventory), and know how to work around the calendar bug (which displays less inventory than you're entitled to, unless you make it work), then low/saver awards are plentiful if you have a little flexibility.