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mileage in divorce court -- I won!

mileage in divorce court -- I won!

Old Jun 11, 2010, 5:48 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by quartermoon
I'm not a lawyer, nor have I ever been divorced,
Well, both apply for me.

It sounds as if OP disclosed the miles as an asset, and the ex agreed to the valuation with full opportunuity to challenge.

I would hope that these circumstances would discourage any later claims of his fraudulently concealing an asset.

I would equally hope that OP reaches the point that he need not gloat about it on a public forum.
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Old Jun 11, 2010, 7:39 pm
  #17  
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I'm more worried about what will happen to my miles when I pass away. Any suggestions? In my household, they are enjoying my fruits of labor but don't seem interested in learning the ropes or how to deal with the awards.
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Old Jun 12, 2010, 11:29 am
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by ChaseTheMiles
I'm more worried about what will happen to my miles when I pass away. Any suggestions? In my household, they are enjoying my fruits of labor but don't seem interested in learning the ropes or how to deal with the awards.
Looking to adopt? I'm available! ^

I'm willing to learn, and I'll always honor your memory.
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Old Jun 12, 2010, 11:40 am
  #19  
 
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I'm not a lawyer and have never been divorced either, but I would agree with the others that say to kinda lay low about the miles until everything is is worked out. If you try to make an issue of the miles right away, then she may figure out that you want them and want to split them just because you want them. If you lay low about them for now, maybe she'll take her share first and the miles will never even be an issue. Of course, it would be better to ask your attorney.
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Old Jun 12, 2010, 12:35 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by boomdog
Looking to adopt? I'm available! ^

I'm willing to learn, and I'll always honor your memory.
Good to know I am appreciated and wanted.

Are you an intelligent intellectually-curious travel-loving mileage junkie?

Let me know how you will honor my memory, and I just might consider it.

(also, Sarah Palin devotees need not apply.)
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Old Jun 12, 2010, 12:55 pm
  #21  
 
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As the recent recipient of a very unwanted divorce I have to say that I can't imagine using the words "divorce" and "won" in the same sentence
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 11:01 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by Flo's Restaurant
No, the property is divided 50/50 on a balance sheet. Add up the total value and divide in half. That's each party's share, in dollars. I subtract from that everything I posess (including 40 nickels worth of FF miles), and she subtracts whatever she posesses (e.g., furniture), and whoever goes below zero owes the other person that much money so the end is exactly 50/50, nothing left over.
OK, I am still somewhat confused, but it sounds like you didn't win; you lost.

If you are doing a balance sheet approach and only settling at the end of the calculation, then you have taken your 100K miles, valued it at $2, and count it as your "contribution" to the balance sheet.

To use another example, suppose you took your $1000 (market price) car, and claim it on the settlement balance sheet as worth only $2. Instead of reducing your liability to your ex-wife by $1000, you only reduced it by $2. You lost $998.

This has nothing to do with 50/50 division. You are using your personal asset as reduction in liability. By under-valuing your miles, you are under-valuing what you are contributing to the balance sheet.

Assuming my understanding is correct, it sounds like your ex-wife may soon be posting a thread titled "mileage in divorce court -- I am the one who really won!" (sorry, I mean, my condolences )
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 10:38 am
  #23  
 
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Either your wife, or her lawyer, or both, are either stupid or just really want to get the divorce over with. There are ample examples of courts apportioning miles equally, or giving a substantial cash valuation to the miles.


c.f. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...l#post13938835

(a prior thread to which I contributed in re: divorce court awards of FF miles)
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Old Jun 15, 2010, 8:34 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by ckpeter
OK, I am still somewhat confused, but it sounds like you didn't win; you lost.

If you are doing a balance sheet approach and only settling at the end of the calculation, then you have taken your 100K miles, valued it at $2, and count it as your "contribution" to the balance sheet.

To use another example, suppose you took your $1000 (market price) car, and claim it on the settlement balance sheet as worth only $2. Instead of reducing your liability to your ex-wife by $1000, you only reduced it by $2. You lost $998.

This has nothing to do with 50/50 division. You are using your personal asset as reduction in liability. By under-valuing your miles, you are under-valuing what you are contributing to the balance sheet.

Assuming my understanding is correct, it sounds like your ex-wife may soon be posting a thread titled "mileage in divorce court -- I am the one who really won!" (sorry, I mean, my condolences )
It is a bit confusing, but I think you have it backwards. The couple was made to list all community property, of which the miles were. Valuations were assigned to each asset, by whom it's not really important if both parties agreed to them, tho it would be interesting to know. The couple then divides up the property, and compares value. They then settle up.

So if the wife ends up with $100k worth of property, and the OP with $80k worth of property, she must pay him $10k to make him whole.

By getting the miles valued at $2, the OP has most certainly "won" if the value sticks, as his wife only gets $2 worth of other assets in offset. Of course, only the lawyers really won.
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Old Jun 16, 2010, 7:40 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by Enjoralas
It is a bit confusing, but I think you have it backwards. The couple was made to list all community property, of which the miles were. Valuations were assigned to each asset, by whom it's not really important if both parties agreed to them, tho it would be interesting to know. The couple then divides up the property, and compares value. They then settle up.

So if the wife ends up with $100k worth of property, and the OP with $80k worth of property, she must pay him $10k to make him whole.

By getting the miles valued at $2, the OP has most certainly "won" if the value sticks, as his wife only gets $2 worth of other assets in offset. Of course, only the lawyers really won.
You may be right. For OP's sake, I hope I had it backwards.
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Old Jun 16, 2010, 5:01 pm
  #26  
 
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I am glad to hear that 100K FF Miless are worth being excited about, as that is exactly how many of them that I "own!" (My variety are the ever depressed SkyMiles.)

Let us know how you spend them once you are certain that you got to "keep" them!
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Old Jun 19, 2010, 8:48 am
  #27  
 
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This thread confuses and concerns me. I have been informed by the T&C of some airlines that the miles belong to us (the airline) and not you. This is the justification when an airlines says...

- ...we can change the rules at any time with notice, short notice, or no notice at all.
- ...we can close your account or zero-out your account without due process and you have no recourse. (there is an active thread in the US forum right now on this very subject)

So my confusion is this. Why is a judge dividing "property" that doesn't belong to either spouse? If just one airline would communicate with the ABA and remind that organization that any FF miles in a member's account belong to that airline and not the member then I would hope that a judge would look into an airline's T&C for miles presented in divorce court to see if there should be any discussion at all about miles!

My concern is this. If U.S. courts start assigning a value to FF miles (whether it be low like $1, medium, or high) then how long will it be before the IRS starts taxing our miles as income? The airlines don't want this because it would devalue their programs and they (the airlines) would probably start having to send out MISC-INCOME statements in January of each year. This might also legally limit their (the airlines) ability to confiscate miles since income tax was paid on the miles by the members.

The airlines as a whole have been pretty unified in saying to businesses "NO, we will not credit the miles your employees earn to a common account even though your business paid for the ticket. The miles go into the passengers' accounts!" So I would think that the collective airlines would also want to make a statement to the courts that the miles don't belong to individuals so STOP DIVIDING UP OUR PROPERTY!!!!!

Feel free to set me straight on my thinking. I would to love be neither confused nor concerned anymore.

Last edited by Evan!; Jun 19, 2010 at 8:50 am Reason: typos
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Old Jun 20, 2010, 10:35 am
  #28  
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Interesting thread, I am just seeing it for the first time. As it happens, I am a divorce lawyer, and I have dealt with the issue of frequent flyer miles and affinity points in some of my cases.

Many programs allow transfers (gifts) from anyone to anyone else. Some additional programs allow transfers between divorcing spouses with a copy of a Settlement Agreement or court decree/judgment/order. A small few don't allow any transfers for any reason, regardless of what any court says (e.g., Marriott).

Valuing these points/miles is a speculative exercise at best. It's usually much better simply to divide them equally. In programs which do not allow this, I have used a trust arrangement in which the spouse who has the miles agrees to hold half of them in trust for later use by the other spouse. This arrangement has its own problems, though, as it provides an additional oppportunity for people to argue for years into the future.

Finally, although divorce laws vary from state to state, in Massachusetts the points/miles are considered assets and are cognizable by the court. Better to disclose them fully up front than to be accused of fraudulently concealing them (which may be considered to be perjury in Massachusetts) later on.
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Old Jun 20, 2010, 8:09 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by ChaseTheMiles
I'm more worried about what will happen to my miles when I pass away. Any suggestions? In my household, they are enjoying my fruits of labor but don't seem interested in learning the ropes or how to deal with the awards.
On FT everything we discuss has been discussed. What to do with miles for the afterlife.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...ter-death.html
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Old Jun 20, 2010, 8:50 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by ChaseTheMiles
I'm more worried about what will happen to my miles when I pass away. Any suggestions? In my household, they are enjoying my fruits of labor but don't seem interested in learning the ropes or how to deal with the awards.
Three words: Weekend at Bernie's.

Seriously, assuming you keep a list somewhere of all your account info (and it's a good idea to do this anyways, in case someone needs to act on your behalf if you're laid up in a hospital, at least for your financial accounts anyways), why would anyone need to tell the airline?
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