That must be the ultimate euphemism (along with my friendly Japanese office neighbour's assessment that 'marketing Manga movies was a wiser move than attacking Pearl Harbor'). FRA is Dante's inferno with gates. Charon has been replaced by a unionized bus driver who - like the Styx - rides 9 times around the entire complex before finally arriving in the underworld.
I mean ORD, SIN, NRT are kinda biggish airport as well and none of them is such a bus infested martyrdom as FRA presents itself .
FRA - Frankfurt/Main (6 miles SW of Frankfurt city center)
Domestic to Domestic - 45 minutes
Domestic to International - 45 minutes
International to Domestic - 45 minutes
International to International - 45 minutes
and,
Have you ever been to the SK lounge in ARN? It's really quite good. They have a spread of several different fresh baked breads and sweet pastries, many wooden planks with sliced meats (including smoked salmon which of course I avoid), two or three vegetable salads, a crudite wheel with several dipping sauces, hummus, pickles, and baked entrees like white lasagna and meat casseroles. Plus, a nice library with interesting books and large sofas to sit, read, and enjoy your wait for the flight.
The MCT info you post above is plain wrong. Please read the relevant thread in this forum.
I've been to both the Business and Scandinavian Lounge in ARN that SAS offers. Not come across the food offerings you describe in the business lounge. The offerings in the *G scandinavian lounge are a bit better but still inferior to the LH SEN lounge.
FRA - Frankfurt/Main (6 miles SW of Frankfurt city center)
Domestic to Domestic - 45 minutes
Domestic to International - 45 minutes
International to Domestic - 45 minutes
International to International - 45 minutes
i dont know where you got this info from but its been 60mins for quiet some time now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravellinHusker
Have you ever been to the SK lounge in ARN? It's really quite good.
i've been there plenty of times, along with the ones in CPH, in GOT, etc. and i have never seen any hot food. i'm not saying its bad, i just dont think its better than any SEN lounge...
It lists only 4 terminals at LHR; I think it's safe to say it's out-of-date.
That said, 45 minutes is probably OK for pretty much any connection. Though, if you're going from the C gates to the far end of the A gates, it will be tight. Especially since you have to go through immigration and security.
Programs: Severals Golds (BA, BD, AB and LH), Highest tier with HH, SPG and ICRA, lawyer, sometimes a nice guy
Posts: 4,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravellinHusker
For Flying Lawyer, thanks for the dissemination you provided.
You are very welcome. Do not take me too serious. "dissemination"? I learn new vocabulary every day. Thanks and enjoy LH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by weero
Of course infeedel! Isn't that one of two major justifications why they charge so much for intra-Europe Y-seated Biz?
ROFL!! Happy new year, weero! I thought the high fares have their base in the services only provided to the good looking HONs I once was....
Quote:
Originally Posted by weero
That must be the ultimate euphemism (along with my friendly Japanese office neighbour's assessment that 'marketing Manga movies was a wiser move than attacking Pearl Harbor'). FRA is Dante's inferno with gates. Charon has been replaced by a unionized bus driver who - like the Styx - rides 9 times around the entire complex before finally arriving in the underworld..
I spent too much time in China last year. And my Firm told me too often, das ich Kreide fressen muss. You know, I am a litigation lawyer. But what happens, if a litigation wolf is fed with chalk.... Right, we become Japanese...
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Do not feel offended by my posts - remember, I am a simple minded litigation lawyer.
..ROFL!! Happy new year, weero! I thought the high fares have their base in the services only provided to the good looking HONs I once was....
That's the second reason .
Quote:
I spent too much time in China last year. And my Firm told me too often, das ich Kreide fressen muss. You know, I am a litigation lawyer. But what happens, if a litigation wolf is fed with chalk.... Right, we become Japanese...
Why did you eat chalk?
I mean we frequent flyers are hardened by airline food and can digest pretty much anything by now ... but on the ground without compelling incentive ?
But I truly enjoyed the Japanese words of wisdom I was exposed to - a refreshing change from the simplistic economics the people next to me in the lounges are blubbering into their mobile phones. Insights such as the one on Pons and Fleischmann - the two science-thugs who claimed that they accomplished "cold fusion" in vitro - that "if they succeeded to achieve a full cold-fusion chain reaction, they would be even worse off than they are today. Even though their departure would have been more honourable..".
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lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate nella sezione Y
I have found C class to be just ho-hum. Nothing special. FA's just plop a tray down in front of me. The food is really odd and often unedible. Most of the FAs seem to be disinterested in their jobs.
Don't take this as a personal attack, as I think some have been a little harsh in their response, but welcome the world of intra-European C travel, this is what you get and I'd be amazed if AF do it any differently or better.
For European business travel, I'd opt for LH or LX over BA or AF, given the choice. But I still find the hard product very inferior to its equivalent on short haul intra-Asia flights on CX / SQ or intra ANZ flights on QF. Market forces...
The whole intra-European C cabin is a bit of a sham anyway, all you really get is a curtain closed (well sometimes) while you're in the air, someone who is asked to smile, rather than scowl at you (though often this bit of training proves ineffective), an empty seat next to you and being able to ask for a second drink and not expect to pay for it.
FWIW, I've noticed steady improvements to the LH intra-Europe C product. Nothing dramatic, just little things which leave me with an incrementally more favourable impression of it. Meanwhile I've noticed an incremental deterioration of product on other European carriers.
Programs: Severals Golds (BA, BD, AB and LH), Highest tier with HH, SPG and ICRA, lawyer, sometimes a nice guy
Posts: 4,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by weero
Why did you eat chalk?
Remember Rotkäppchen und der Wolf and what that wolf did to soften its voice? Being a partner in a magic circle law firm requires political correctness to an extend not normal for a germanic German.
__________________
Do not feel offended by my posts - remember, I am a simple minded litigation lawyer.
Don't take this as a personal attack, as I think some have been a little harsh in their response but welcome the world of intra-European C travel, this is what you get and I'd be amazed if AF do it any differently or better...
FWIW, I've noticed steady improvements to the LH intra-Europe C product. Nothing dramatic, just little things which leave me with an incrementally more favourable impression of it. Meanwhile I've noticed an incremental deterioration of product on other European carriers.
As a FB Platinum, I have admittedly spent most of my time on AF, KL, and AZ. Within the past 6 months, I've been forced to fly LH quite a few times because I didn't pay for the ticket. All fares were full C class and intra-Europe. I have found C class to be just ho-hum. Nothing special. FA's just plop a tray down in front of me. The food is really odd and often unedible. Most of the FAs seem to be disinterested in their jobs. They serve the same sugar-juice that is back in Y. I do not like the choice of beer. Warsteiner is bitter swill, in my opinion. There are much better German brews they could be serving. In FRA, I never get a gate, but instead get a remote stand and then have to walk, elevators, stairs, etc.. for 30 to 45 minutes just to get back to the Schengen gates for my connecting flight. When I finally get to the lounge I am sweating and out of breath from the hike. I have found that they are super crowded and rarely have a place to sit. The food in the Senator lounges in both FRA and MUC is really nothing so special. I mean, hot dogs in hot water and crusty pretzels with potato salad.
I am wondering if AF does offer anything better than this
Don't take this as a personal attack, as I think some have been a little harsh in their response but welcome the world of intra-European C travel, this is what you get and I'd be amazed if AF do it any differently or better.
For European business travel, I'd opt for LH or LX over BA, given the choice. But I still find the hard product very inferior to its equivalent on short haul intra-Asia flights on CX / SQ or intra ANZ flights on QF. Market forces...
The whole intra-European C cabin is a bit of a sham anyway, all you really get is a curtain closed (well sometimes) while you're in the air, someone who is asked to smile, rather than scowl at you (though often this bit of training proves ineffective), an empty seat next to you and being able to ask for a second drink and not expect to pay for it.
FWIW, I've noticed steady improvements to the LH intra-Europe C product. Nothing dramatic, just little things which leave me with an incrementally more favourable impression of it. Meanwhile I've noticed an incremental deterioration of product on other European carriers.
Thnks for the kinder words. As for my experience with intra-Europe C class, AF offers a slightly better seat, and the food is at least hot, while the lounges are crap. Yes, they have nice wines and champagnes, but no food to speak of. I am not a glutton, but often when I am connecting for just 1 hour, I do not have enough time to stop in a restaurant in the airport, wait for food and eat. I need something kind of on the go. AF offers none of that except in the long-haul Biz class lounges in S3 at CDG.
KL is a bit better. While the seating can sometimes be horrible because they don't block the middle seat, there is often a hot meal on board. In the event it is a snack flight, the bento boxes are usually quite good as well. In the Schengen lounge in AMS, there are always two hot soups, meat and cheese trays, and a salad of sorts. Sometimes it is an Asian Rice Salad or a Pesto Pasta Salad. But there is always something fresh and healthy.
So, for better, I would say that even though many complain that the overall product of KL has been diluted since AF merged with them, it is still a very good product. And, in over 200 flights just on KLM alone, about 1/2 in C class, I've only had 2 flights where it was chockablock full and someone was sitting in the middle seat. Once, AMS-VCE, and the other, AMS-LHR. Hardly long flights and I was able to suffer quite nicely with my Finlandia Vodka and Diet Coke.
I do like the self-boarding QuickGates at FRA and MUC. Very cool! Certainly cuts down on the time waiting in line just to board.
I've also flown intra-Europe C class on BA, SK, and AZ. I still think KL offers perhaps the better product of them all.
As for the SK *G Scandinavia Lounges in ARN, CPH, and OSL, I've been in all three. ARN is the nicest in my opinion. I was there for the first time in June 2008 and again about 6 weeks ago. Both times there was hot food that had been set out. In June, it was about 1230pm, and in November, I was there about 4pm. Just a large white porcelain bowl that was been in the oven. It was to the right of the fresh baked breads, near the salmon and ham. I can't speak for it always being there, but both times I've been there, it has been present.
I am wondering if AF does offer anything better than this
I think it is very hard to compare AF and LH. If you ask me about ground services, you know I've never had a problem on LH that required me to deal with them, so I can't say. For AF, I've only had misplaced baggage that was due to a bad storm and a missed connection. They got me my bag delivered to the hotel within 24 hours and paid me 200 euros as I had to buy a different shirt and tie for a presentation. So, no complaints about that from me.
As to inflight, the seats on AF and LH are pretty much the same. Flight attendants on LH seem a bit robotic, while on AF they are a bit more fluid. I've never had a snarky AF flight attendant, but perhaps that I speak French also helps (even if I don't speak it perfectly!). I MUCH prefer 1664 to Warsteiner, so AF wins in my book for beer on board. LH Sen lounges have food. Even if it isn't food I would lke to eat, yes they have it. AF doesn't have any food except crackers, biscuits, and the occasional beignets.
For changing planes when flying intra-Europe, I will choose CDG. Since I am arriving from within the EU, even if I have arrived at a remote stand, the bus will take me to 2F which is where my flight will be leaving from. I am not forced to take a bus to one end of the terminal in FRA, go up stairs to wind through another part of the terminal to get to another set of stairs to go down 2 levels then walk forever through a tunnel only to be forced to take another set of stairs (or wait in the normally long lines for one of 2 elevators) up 3 levels to the A gates. It's just nonsense. Absolute nonsense.
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