Senior Moderator; Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 20,843
Inspite of a massive price war to the east, LH is managing to sell out the C cabin to PVG & HKG, hence the higher prices. EK/QR are certainly winning the SEA/India battle pdq, but north asia is still going well for LH mainly because of the long detour you have to take to DOH/DXB.
With dozens of widebodies joining EK/QR the next years it will be certainly interesting to observe who has the longer breath: EK can't be making much money selling their flights at a massive discount: everything to SEA/N.Asia/India for us at work is pricing at 1700-2100€ for C
Inspite of a massive price war to the east, LH is managing to sell out the C cabin to PVG & HKG, hence the higher prices. EK/QR are certainly winning the SEA/India battle pdq, but north asia is still going well for LH mainly because of the long detour you have to take to DOH/DXB.
If they are selling out the C cabins on PVG and HKG very good for them. The flights I have been on though are not sold out in C, and PVG and HKG are two destinations I am at on a regular basis. There is no detour at all if flying CX- it is a nonstop, and this is how CX prices it ex-MXP for example. The detour is FRA/MUC really in my examples.
If really they are selling out- why would they not put a higher capacity aircraft on the route- i.e. A380 to PVG or HKG? Surely the yield must be higher than SFO for example?
Programs: LH SEN, KL Gold, Hertz FiveStar, Sixt Gold, Hilton, A-club etc.
Posts: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAVELSIG
If they are selling out the C cabins on PVG and HKG very good for them. The flights I have been on though are not sold out in C, and PVG and HKG are two destinations I am at on a regular basis. There is no detour at all if flying CX- it is a nonstop, and this is how CX prices it ex-MXP for example. The detour is FRA/MUC really in my examples.
If really they are selling out- why would they not put a higher capacity aircraft on the route- i.e. A380 to PVG or HKG? Surely the yield must be higher than SFO for example?
Ex PVG the flights are usually full in all COS Thu-Sat, but quite light mid week.
As regards A380 they are not allowed to take it to PVG - they have tried but no acceptance. Have something to do with environmental fees that Asia carriers need to pay in EU I reckon... purely a political thing since other carriers go here with A380.
Programs: LH SEN, BA Gold, BMI Gold, CO Platinum, Hyatt Diamond, Starwood Platinum, Hhonors Silver
Posts: 161
True, that makes it even more strange that LH continues to erode its mileage program concurrently.
You can be creative with stopovers etc., but if Z is available, you will be booked in Z by almost all corporate travel departments.
With a 1 or 2 year delay, many will realize that with their current travel patterns, they will not make Senator anymore (because of Z and corporate P mileage earnings) and will realize the sacrifices are just not worth it anymore.
IMO, enhancing prices in combination with eroding M&M is like killing the goose with the golden eggs. On the short term, it may give some benefits, because many travellers like to collect miles but are not very miles savvy. On the long term, I'm sure it will hurt LH very much.
Anyway, it seems that Dr. Franz is reigning with papal infallibility.
The pope lost many customers too....
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalFlyer
I have seen employees do really weird things just to fly on their preferred carrier (eg pay absurd prices, accept stopovers). Most corporate travellers aspire to Gold status on their "home city carrier" and would do anything for it.
Case in point: I am currently serving a client in Saudi. Voluntarily, our employees take the ~9pm flight home on "Friday night" (which is Wednesday in Saudi) instead of a cozy 6pm flight, because the latter would be without mileage earning! Interesting experiment regarding "how much do you value your weekend time?": Employees are willing to give up 3 hours of weekend time for around 2500 miles plus some status accrual. If I value a mile at 1c, it means that those three hours are valued at around USD 25. I bet I could not hire them for overtime hours at a rate of USD 8/h (maybe I should pay them in miles ... ).
A little off topic, but this irrationality is exactly what LH is capitalizing on. And it is soooo widespread, amazing.
I have seen employees do really weird things just to fly on their preferred carrier (eg pay absurd prices, accept stopovers). Most corporate travellers aspire to Gold status...
I can deeply relate to that and I did that too in my younger days.
But say 7-10 years ago, Gold meant a lot. Today, SEN is worthless except for the Biz award waitlist and the companion award (if you enjoy paying EUR 1500 in taxes, scams, rip offs, and surcharges).
De facto I cannot score an upgrade anymore, soon de jure no longer. SQ's C product is infinitesimally better than Premium Eco. So even a die hard Star Alliance flyers as I was had to learn that the Alliance's prime is over and that M&M is no longer my lair.
Mid week I was in FRAnkenstein as both the SEN and Biz loune were so full that I could not find a seat, I grabbed (or tried to grab) some food and wandered into the terminal and planted myself onto a seat near the gate.
A flock of young folks doing a frequent flyer survey (outsite of the lounge n.b.) hovered around. They asked questions along happiness with ones FFP and why one would not be in the lounge. Officially the poll was not LH related but given that it was held in FRA....
They also admitted that today they only met a handful of elderly people who were happy with M&M ... and all them were oblivious to the changes to come.
So in brief: even I won't sit in LH's C product if I have to pay the price of Z or >Z get a upgrade to what would be a decent C. With the benefits gone, other carriers look very attractive.
A flock of young folks doing a frequent flyer survey (outsite of the lounge n.b.) hovered around. They asked questions along happiness with ones FFP and why one would not be in the lounge.
I would give a LOT to see that form filled by you (given some observations @ FT)
Glad you brought out the "high treason" phrase- it just is not used very often anymore regrettably.
In between wars, it doesn't have the same impact on the accused. These days you have to resort to other ultimate-scare phrased such as "SUV driver" or "pedophile" or the likes...
Case in point: I am currently serving a client in Saudi. Voluntarily, our employees take the ~9pm flight home on "Friday night" (which is Wednesday in Saudi) instead of a cozy 6pm flight, because the latter would be without mileage earning! Interesting experiment regarding "how much do you value your weekend time?": Employees are willing to give up 3 hours of weekend time for around 2500 miles plus some status accrual. If I value a mile at 1c, it means that those three hours are valued at around USD 25. I bet I could not hire them for overtime hours at a rate of USD 8/h (maybe I should pay them in miles ... ).
Love this reasoning!
__________________
"There's nothing cheap about loyalty" (Ryan Bingham, Up in the Air)
this is an indication for poor Revenue Management within EK
EK was offering VERY cheap F seats out of AMS only as a marketing thing. AMS-BKK $4000 r/t w free stop in DXB / AMS-SYD $6000 w free stop in DXB or BKK but alas those fares are now gone
EK was offering VERY cheap F seats out of AMS only as a marketing thing. AMS-BKK $4000 r/t w free stop in DXB / AMS-SYD $6000 w free stop in DXB or BKK but alas those fares are now gone
PVG in business is on special for 1875 EUR all in currently with EK ex-VCE. This also includes a free chauffer drive to and from your house or office which has a value of at least 180 EUR.
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