Writing now from the T3 SKL in Changi. The attendants tried to convince us to use the T2 lounge as the DPS flight leaves from T2, but I firmly insisted on using the T3 lounge. It's awesome, with a huge breakfast spread that rivals a buffet at a 5 star hotel and nice hot showers that make you feel new again.
The flight from CDG was, in a word, impressive. The 77W is probably one of the oldest in the fleet, even though it has the new seats. They are showing their age, with lots of scuffs and dirt, even tears in the seams -- if you are dirt phobic, do NOT look in between the two middle seats where dust bunnies have created quite a warren. Load was fairly light, about 21 biz passengers in the main biz cabin, and the mini cabin full. However, everything worked, service was impeccable, and 12 hours flew by with the best sleep I have ever gotten on a plane. I have over 2.5 million miles on NW from a previous career, but since my career change a few years ago, I travel on my own dime and I don't care what carrier it is as long as it's a good deal. I can now see why SQ was not part of my company's approved airlines, it's way too nice to treat employees this way!
The AF flight from JFK was something else altogether. We had a friendly crew, but the product and service sucks eggs. I'll post a more detailed trip report when I have time, but don't expect much. Any of the US carriers would have done better than AF on that flight. I'm talking duct tape holding the seats together, scratchy $2 blanket from the dollar store, etc. We were on a 772. On the way back we're on the A332, so it may be even worse.
Our only moment of concern on this itinerary was IRROPS from the US. Our DL connection to JFK was over 2 hours delayed because of storms, and we BOOKED it on foot from the DL terminal to T1 at JFK where AF departs from. Luckily we travel light, and got to AF with about 1 hour before departure. Then, AF sat on the tarmac waiting for takeoff, number 18 in sequence. We were on the ground for an hour as thick fog rolled in. I'm sure all the Europe bound flights were delayed leaving Saturday evening from JFK.
Folks as far as this ticket is concerned it appears to be good. I repeat, though, that we used OLCI at all times, and never once asked for an upgrade or change in itinerary. I am flying it exactly as ticketed. Our final destination today is KL, so we are going to DPS, then slumming it to Air Asia and flying to KL, arriving more than 9 hours from now. On the return we will once again fly to DPS just to turn around and fly back to SIN. I am sorely tempted to delay our return for 2 days to get on the INAUGURAL A380 to CDG on June 1, but I won't because I don't want to raise any issues with this fare. The only times we ever spoke to an agent was to receive boarding cards, that's it. I think the more this fare is flown under the radar and discreetly (i.e., flown as ticketed), the more likely DL will continue to honor the fare for everyone who has reservations even into 2010. Any changes that are requested to Expedia will almost definitely yield a phone call to Delta to ask about fare rules. That's my 2 cents and I'm sticking to it.
Programs: UA*G, 9wPlat, LH SEN, AA Plat, Sixt Plat, *was* SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG...
Posts: 3,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangkokiscool
I think the more this fare is flown under the radar and discreetly (i.e., flown as ticketed), the more likely DL will continue to honor the fare for everyone who has reservations even into 2010. Any changes that are requested to Expedia will almost definitely yield a phone call to Delta to ask about fare rules. That's my 2 cents and I'm sticking to it.
Excellent methodology, bangkokiscool!
Hope others will follow in your footsteps and note this is the way to go...
..........The only times we ever spoke to an agent was to receive boarding cards, that's it. I think the more this fare is flown under the radar and discreetly (i.e., flown as ticketed), the more likely DL will continue to honor the fare for everyone who has reservations even into 2010. Any changes that are requested to Expedia will almost definitely yield a phone call to Delta to ask about fare rules. That's my 2 cents and I'm sticking to it.
Writing now from the T3 SKL in Changi. The attendants tried to convince us to use the T2 lounge as the DPS flight leaves from T2, but I firmly insisted on using the T3 lounge. It's awesome, with a huge breakfast spread that rivals a buffet at a 5 star hotel and nice hot showers that make you feel new again.
The flight from CDG was, in a word, impressive. The 77W is probably one of the oldest in the fleet, even though it has the new seats. They are showing their age, with lots of scuffs and dirt, even tears in the seams -- if you are dirt phobic, do NOT look in between the two middle seats where dust bunnies have created quite a warren. Load was fairly light, about 21 biz passengers in the main biz cabin, and the mini cabin full. However, everything worked, service was impeccable, and 12 hours flew by with the best sleep I have ever gotten on a plane. I have over 2.5 million miles on NW from a previous career, but since my career change a few years ago, I travel on my own dime and I don't care what carrier it is as long as it's a good deal. I can now see why SQ was not part of my company's approved airlines, it's way too nice to treat employees this way!
The AF flight from JFK was something else altogether. We had a friendly crew, but the product and service sucks eggs. I'll post a more detailed trip report when I have time, but don't expect much. Any of the US carriers would have done better than AF on that flight. I'm talking duct tape holding the seats together, scratchy $2 blanket from the dollar store, etc. We were on a 772. On the way back we're on the A332, so it may be even worse.
Our only moment of concern on this itinerary was IRROPS from the US. Our DL connection to JFK was over 2 hours delayed because of storms, and we BOOKED it on foot from the DL terminal to T1 at JFK where AF departs from. Luckily we travel light, and got to AF with about 1 hour before departure. Then, AF sat on the tarmac waiting for takeoff, number 18 in sequence. We were on the ground for an hour as thick fog rolled in. I'm sure all the Europe bound flights were delayed leaving Saturday evening from JFK.
Folks as far as this ticket is concerned it appears to be good. I repeat, though, that we used OLCI at all times, and never once asked for an upgrade or change in itinerary. I am flying it exactly as ticketed. Our final destination today is KL, so we are going to DPS, then slumming it to Air Asia and flying to KL, arriving more than 9 hours from now. On the return we will once again fly to DPS just to turn around and fly back to SIN. I am sorely tempted to delay our return for 2 days to get on the INAUGURAL A380 to CDG on June 1, but I won't because I don't want to raise any issues with this fare. The only times we ever spoke to an agent was to receive boarding cards, that's it. I think the more this fare is flown under the radar and discreetly (i.e., flown as ticketed), the more likely DL will continue to honor the fare for everyone who has reservations even into 2010. Any changes that are requested to Expedia will almost definitely yield a phone call to Delta to ask about fare rules. That's my 2 cents and I'm sticking to it.
THANK YOU for the report and THANK YOU for keeping this as discreet as possible
__________________
PNC aux portes; armement des toboggans; vérification de la porte opposée.
Thanks for the update, bangkokiscool. Happy trails to KL.
Looking forward to the full report, especially the description of AF hard and soft product. A number of us, me included, are on AF for four out of six legs. I've never flown AF J before.
"Sucks eggs"? I must have been grouchy AND jet lagged when I wrote that. Wow!
I'll say this about the AF hard product: it's comfortable. The literature says 180 lie flat but it seems to me that it's not quite 180. Having said that, I have flown on many angled lie flats including BR, SQ Spacebed, MH, NW WBC. AF's is the best by far because of this critical fact: you don't slide on the seat. The seat is designed so that the bottom bolster is lengthy enough, and raised enough, that your body is supported in the sleeping position. This means sleep is much easier than on the angled seats, where you constantly feel like you're sliding downwards and need to brace yourself.
OK, so I'm not the type who is camera happy while traveling. People look at you funny when you take photos and then you feel like an amateurish fool who's never been on a plane before. Having said that, I am so appreciative of those on FT who have shared their experiences and knowledge with me (especially Tracon for discovering and sharing this fare), I want to "give back" as it were. So I took out my iphone and snapped what I could.
Our first leg was AF, JFK-CDG on AF 023 leaving at 4:30 pm. Equipment was 772. We were quite late arriving into JFK because of weather, but thankfully Delta is right next door to Terminal 1. We used the kiosks to check in, and an AF staff member was on hand to help ensure the kiosks were used properly and passports were scanned. Could only get BP to CDG at this point. After BP's printed, we were sent to the AF check-in desk. I'm not sure why (I got a little nervous since this was the first leg of the fare), but it seemed that all business passengers were being sent to the check-in desk. A quick document check, and we were done. Security was easy and light in JFK (the premium line was not enforced so we just went with the shortest line), and then we were through.
Unfortunately, there was no time to visit the AF lounge, which is right next to the gate. Here's our bird waiting to take us to Paris.
Once on board we were promptly greeted and shown to our seats. The crew seemed very friendly. The cabin is laid out in a 2-3-2 configuration. Here's a shot of the legroom in AF's J seat.
Next to us was a couple, the lady was sitting in the middle seat. Her headrest was broken, and a tech was called on board. They couldn't fix it, so they moved the couple to another row and swapped them with a second couple traveling with an infant and put the infant in the seat with the broken headrest. I was nervous about crying babies but the infant didn't start crying until we were descending into CDG. The crew seemed professional throughout it all. The interesting this is that the cabin was full, but when I checked seatcounter a few hours before departure there were still multiple (more than 7) seats to be sold in biz class. AF has a reputation for upgrading employees and family members, so I guess that's why the cabin was full. Here's a shot of the view across the aisle from me.
The AF seat is very upright in the take off and landing position, with the headrest protruding into the neck. And the seats are definitely starting to show their age. Here's the duct tape around my seat. And as I mentioned in a previous post, the blanket and pillow are definitely subpar compared to other airlines. Here's the blanket, which I found too small, too scratchy, and too thin. As it turns out, a heavier blanket would not have worked either because the cabin was overheated during the night and I woke up sweating.
So we waited for our welcome drinks, amenity kits, menus, warm towels. And waited. And waited. There was a bottle of water waiting for us in the seat as we sat down, a small bottle of crystal geyser. And one of us had an amenity kit (no photo), but the other seat lacked one so we had to ask for one. The kit was basic and no-frills, like most airlines these days. The headphone are physically attached to the seat, and the amenity kit contains a do-it-yourself earphone cover made of porous paper surrounded by a rubber band.
One strange thing about the AF seat is the rubber handle right in front of you. I have no idea what it's for. It resembles the oh-.... bar in cars. Maybe it's for hanging clothes or blankets. I used it to hang my sunglasses.
Eventually I gave up on the welcome drink and warm towels. As it turns out, the welcome drink and warm towels were handed out AFTER pushback. That's a long time on the ground during boarding when the service is non-existent. When we finally got going, we got our champagne. Away at last! But don't get too excited, because taxi took an hour. Here's the line of metal waiting behind us as we finally reached our takeoff position. JFK can be a real pain when the weather goes down.
Finally we took off. Flight time was only 6 hours and 20 minutes, but unlike typical trans-Atlantic flights I didn't bother trying to sleep much as I knew I would be sleeping on the SQ flight to SIN. Menus were eventually handed out. Two dinner options, beef with snap peas and rice or the "plat du jour", orange roughy with mashed potatoes. The food was not too bad, and accompanied by lots of bread and cheese. I am not a big fan of the presentation. The appetizer and dessert (a very disappointing peach tart) are given to you first on a tray, and then the app plates are removed, and then the main course is delivered down the aisle with a cart. No orders taken, no calling by first name, just missing a lot of the extra touches that separates the best from the rest.
As I previously mentioned, one big plus of the AF seat is that sleeping is easy in them, much easier than other angled lie-flat seats. I'd estimate the recline to be between 175 and 180 degrees. Not once did I feel like I was sliding.
I woke up around halfway through the flight because it was hot. I went to get a drink, and the self-service bar was open. It was very bare, with only empty glasses, a couple of boxes of cheese pretzels (same boxes that were served with the after takeoff drink), and some beverages and liquor. No fruit, sandwiches, or anything else. The ice in the ice tray was almost all melted but I managed to fish one cube out and put it into a glass and then tried to serve myself some sparkling water. A couple of FA's were watching me as I did this and none offered any assistance. I opened up the bottle of water, and it fizzed out all over me, drenching my shirt and jeans. And then a most unexpected and disturbing thing happened -- one of the FA's burst out into uncontrolled laughter at me! She then quickly said "sorry" and fetched me some napkins. Thankfully it was just water. With my water intact and ego slightly bruised, I made it back to my seat swearing that I wouldn't try to serve myself sparkling water on a plane again. I mulled over that incident a bit. I wasn't offended that she laughed at me, I suppose it was funny to see, like a video on AFV, but really, should a flight attendant in a business class cabin laugh when a passenger spills something on themselves?
We landed about 20 minutes late and pulled into our gate in Terminal 2E. There was no landing card to fill out, and no instructions were given about the arrival lounge, in fact, no word about it at all. It's like a little secret that you have to know about. I do recommend it if you have time. You have to find your way to Terminal 2C. We took the airside shuttle, a meandering and nausea-inducing bus ride through CDG's inner belly, got to 2C, cleared immigration (who were very nice and efficient), cleared baggage claim and customs, and then located the lounge, which is not easy to find. Just remember it's in 2C. The lounge has a great breakfast spread, 3 computers with internet, and most important, very decent shower rooms (over a dozen of them) with nice towels, amenities, toilets. A great way to refresh after the flight. Here's a picture of the shower.
After about an hour in the lounge we made our way to Terminal 1 to connect to SQ (did OLCI first using the AF computers). The VAL train is easy to find and takes you right to T1, and SQ is easy to find from there. Quick and painless checkin (just to collect BPs), and then a 45 minute wait in line to clear French immigration. Mid-morning is peak time for the US bound flights and UA and US all had multiple departures, which bogged down the immigration lines which only had 3 agents working. Once past immigration, the Star Alliance lounge is worth a visit although the food selection is minimal and the internet was not working the day we were there. Then it was on to SQ and T3. As I mentioned in a previous post, definitely use the T3 SKL, it's worth a visit. Here's a blurry shot as I was leaving the lounge to connect to Bali.
Not much more to report. Visa on arrival for US citizens in DPS is $10 (cash) and departure tax is 150,000 Rupiah (cash). So bring at least $25 in US cash, $10 for entry and $15 for departure. No photo needed.
Hope you can draw your own conclusions about AF. The hard product is decent, better than most US carriers (other than the new lie-flats), but showing its age on the 772 we flew. The soft product, in my opinion, is less than competitive with major US carriers and much behind Asian carriers.
Thank you for the descriptive report and pictures, bangkokiscool! Now I know where to set my expectations for the AF flight. Being on the 7pm departure, which is scheduled to be the newer 773, I hope that the use of duct tape is less obvious.
The description of your transit experience at CDG is very helpful. I had some trepidation after reading the many horror stories, but I feel much more at ease now. Good to know that you could OLCI for your SQ flight from the AF arrival lounge. As I plan to go landside as well it doesn't really matter, but I suppose if one could find access to the internet and a printer upon arrival at 2E, it's possible to stay airside.
I am really looking forward to the trip...despite the AF flights.
I wish DL would be willing to let us fly on their metal instead, but beggars can't be choosers!
I don't think Delta flies any of its metal on this route. Kind of surprised me as well, I tried to find a real DL flight to CDG - looks like it's all AF.
Just a quick update from Bali. We're leaving tonight for SIN, then on to CDG, then to JFK. Just like the outbound, we're going under the radar, OLCI is processed and no checked bags. Tight turnaround in SIN (1 hour), but should be enough to get a quick shower before the 13 hour flight to CDG, second to last for the 77W!
We are staying at the Elysian in Bali. If any of you are going to be in Bali with a significant other, and want to stay in a private and very romantic hotel, the Elysian is it. Can't recommend it highly enough. Every villa comes with its own private pool and is surrounded by high walls. No direct beach access to Seminyak, though, so if you are a surfer you'd want to look elsewhere. The internet rate was $250 ++, but in this morning's Jakarta Post they were advertising 1.9 Mil Rupiah net (about $190 net), so I'd recommend emailing them and asking them for the advertised rate in the local newspapers. EDIT: this rate is for locals only. Apparently foreign/local pricing is alive and well in Indonesia!
Will report more on the flight once we're back Stateside. It's been an incredible vacation, and we're very thankful once again to our friends at FT who helped and shared with this great fare!
Last edited by bangkokiscool; May 30, 09 at 2:12 am.
Just a quick update from Bali. We're leaving tonight for SIN, then on to CDG, then to JFK. Just like the outbound, we're going under the radar, OLCI is processed and no checked bags. Tight turnaround in SIN (1 hour), but should be enough to get a quick shower before the 13 hour flight to CDG, second to last for the 77W!
We are staying at the Elysian in Bali. If any of you are going to be in Bali with a significant other, and want to stay in a private and very romantic hotel, the Elysian is it. Can't recommend it highly enough. Every villa comes with its own private pool and is surrounded by high walls. No direct beach access to Seminyak, though, so if you are a surfer you'd want to look elsewhere. The internet rate was $250 ++, but in this morning's Jakarta Post they were advertising 1.9 Mil Rupiah net (about $190 net), so I'd recommend emailing them and asking them for the advertised rate in the local newspapers. EDIT: this rate is for locals only. Apparently foreign/local pricing is alive and well in Indonesia!
Will report more on the flight once we're back Stateside. It's been an incredible vacation, and we're very thankful once again to our friends at FT who helped and shared with this great fare!
Small world. I'm in SIN right now in the SilverKris lounge. Just had a shower (nice showers!) and some "dinner". Flew in from Sydney today and flying out to Bangkok. Will miss you by about 2 hours!
I've got one of these trips scheduled for next Feb, and I can't wait. Your trip sounds superb. Again, thanks to the OP. It's not often I get to go to someplace new (DPS) AND stop in CDG and NRT and fly through SIN twice (got to like it here...).
