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Old Nov 20, 2013, 7:48 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Pat89339
Do not call the airlines under any conditions! This is the fastest way to kill the trick and bring unwanted attention to your itinerary! And do not post precious deals in this thread, this is by far the fastest way to kill the trick!



************************************************** ******
This is NOT the right place to ask: "Can you help me with a low fare for AAA-BBB?" This is not the beg-it thread, but the trick-it thread.

This thread deals with unique combinations of routes and booking tricks in order to lower prices on airline fares. Prices that would astound the general public are often achieved by the posters in this thread.

Many people, including airline representatives, monitor this thread. For that reason, it is unorganized, very content heavy, often lacking details, and written in shorthand. It takes patience and effort in order to understand the conversation and be able to participate as an active member.

We encourage you to read the entirety of this thread if you would like to get started and to experiment as soon as you understand the gist of Trick It. Lots of time spent reading, practicing, and learning is the only way to be able to reproduce our tricks and discover new ones yourself. There are many, many people who ask for advice here, so productive members are only able to help those who have shown a concerted effort and progress over a long period of time (months).

If you have no idea what this thread is about, a good place to start are various blogs' posts on the subject. At the very least, read the Rules for posting in this thread. They're also listed in the very first post, below.

Older portions of the thread have been separated into archive thread by year. They are listed below

2008 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2009 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2010 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2011 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2012 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2013 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2014 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
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Trick it / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread

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Old Feb 9, 2016, 3:21 pm
  #5206  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Africa
Programs: A3 Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by klanfa
Honestly if you read through last 5 pages you would notice how noob-friendly his post was. He actually gave you nice directions.

On the same note, paying only 40€ is highly unlikely. Even if you manage to find a strike that would work, you have to pay for that flight - and I highly doubt you can get a roundtrip and a one way ticket for €40.
Doable, but probably limited to Ryanair off the peak travel dates.
Thanks- at least some of you make my effort seem worthwhile...^
Who wants to write essays...I am doing it to push you guys along. A few more responses like those and I probably will start telling ppl read from page 1
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Old Feb 9, 2016, 3:30 pm
  #5207  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Africa
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Posts: 92
Originally Posted by fbruno
But I'm still hesitant to use this for FD purposes, even if technically allowed
Assuming that the forced validating carrier is allowed by the system without showing an error message, you could say this was technically possible. However I would put it in the same risk bracket as skipping a 1x....very dicey.

Since it seems you have access to a Amadeus console, why not try for us and report back?

Maybe you will have discovered the most potent strike yet
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Old Feb 9, 2016, 3:37 pm
  #5208  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: c2
Posts: 691
I appreciate your posts too, even when the dumps I know mostly do not respect those five plating rules. Great reading and new insight anyway, thanks

Last edited by brumbrum; Feb 9, 2016 at 3:40 pm Reason: typo
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Old Feb 9, 2016, 4:21 pm
  #5209  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Posts: 7,374
Originally Posted by brumbrum
I appreciate your posts too, even when the dumps I know mostly do not respect those five plating rules. Great reading and new insight anyway, thanks
+1

As an aside, doesn't FT have a feature where one may ignore a user?
work2fly is online now  
Old Feb 9, 2016, 4:24 pm
  #5210  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,141
It does, but it only hides the body of the message, not the fact that a particular poster has posted a message, unfortunately.
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Old Feb 9, 2016, 7:43 pm
  #5211  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Posts: 815
This thread has changed so much recently. I have a hard time following this after 7 years. Why can we just get back to coded Fd's? All the old school posters are pretty much gone. Even wwe is posting less. To much side chat going on. Can't we get back to sharing meals and appetizers. Anyone new should send pm's vs turning this in to a flyer talk university Q and A.
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Old Feb 9, 2016, 7:48 pm
  #5212  
 
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Originally Posted by nwa330
This thread has changed so much recently. I have a hard time following this after 7 years. Why can we just get back to coded Fd's? All the old school posters are pretty much gone. Even wwe is posting less. To much side chat going on. Can't we get back to sharing meals and appetizers. Anyone new should send pm's vs turning this in to a flyer talk university Q and A.
+1

I've given up on following this thread because there's simply no point anymore.
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Old Feb 9, 2016, 7:52 pm
  #5213  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SFO/TPA
Programs: AA Plat, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 157
On that note, C1w-C2 5th freedom nonstop is ~$200 cheaper with dessert for $664. Not an amazing deal, but still a decent savings on the route and nonstop is tough to beat.
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Old Feb 10, 2016, 1:58 am
  #5214  
Moderator: Mileage Run, United Airlines; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
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Time for an FT TOS refresher course:

12.2 Avoid Getting Personal

If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.

FlyerTalk is a diverse, multi-cultural community. Expressions of prejudice or discrimination in any form are not permitted (such as those concerning race, nationality, religious belief, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, etc).

If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate. Retaliation may well subject you to the same discipline. Instead, please use the 'Alert a moderator to this thread' button in the lower-left-hand-corner of each post, send a note explaining your concern to the moderator team, and leave it to them to handle. Please also see Rule 22 — When you believe someone has violated the rules.

Pat89339, Moderator Mileage Run Forum
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Old Feb 10, 2016, 2:16 am
  #5215  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,265
Originally Posted by Lookee
Ignored? You are so naive. Reading useless lecturing from an "established" member like yourself only makes the new members to cooperate privately and giving each other correct 3Xes through private messages :-)
Please do so and go nagging elsewhere.

Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
+1

I've given up on following this thread because there's simply no point anymore.
+1. Once upon a time...

Apart from a few posts every now and then, every 5 to 10 pages, this thread became the "Can't trick it version" like VFT has. From dump-sters thread to dumb-sters thread, meanwhile screwing up reliable dumps due to overexposure in every possible way.
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Old Feb 10, 2016, 2:21 am
  #5216  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,265
Originally Posted by nwa330
This thread has changed so much recently. I have a hard time following this after 7 years. Why can we just get back to coded Fd's? All the old school posters are pretty much gone. Even wwe is posting less. To much side chat going on. Can't we get back to sharing meals and appetizers. Anyone new should send pm's vs turning this in to a flyer talk university Q and A.
You are way too kind! I believe kindergarten is the appropriate term.
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Old Feb 10, 2016, 2:53 am
  #5217  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Africa
Programs: A3 Gold, Hertz Gold
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Nowhere have I claimed to be a Sensei- in fact the opposite- at all times I have taken pains to be humble. I believe nothing I have written is threatening or exposing a single trick, I have even clearly said PM me and I will edit if you still think it is.

I have received Thanks PMs from countless established members who also felt it added to their knowledge...It would be a pity if a few want this to be a playground for the old only. New members who contribute should be encouraged. Remember everyone also was a noob once. I try to keep that in mind always, and hence I try to help. If you dont want to read a post, dont.

Once again, my posts were not to show off- but rather to assist. Sorry if I have stepped on anyone's toes, that was not my intention.

Last edited by Bhavshah; Feb 10, 2016 at 3:05 am Reason: clarity
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Old Feb 10, 2016, 3:18 am
  #5218  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,265
@Bhavshah: my posts were not related to you, by far not. I can only speak for myself but neither do I think others were addressing you specifically.

I do have issues with the way a nobody with zero credibility responds to your help. This is unacceptable and we have seen far too much of that kind of behaviour in the past months.

There was a time noobs only received help after having shown continuous efforts during months.
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Old Feb 10, 2016, 4:23 am
  #5219  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Africa
Programs: A3 Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by Epicura
@Bhavshah: my posts were not related to you, by far not. I can only speak for myself but neither do I think others were addressing you specifically.
^
I was not replying to you....There were some other posts, one of which said I was pretending to be a big shot like WWE [deleted text per TOS 18]

Re the noobs No one generally tends to help anyone....and so I thought I would try..but maybe they like being abused more

Last edited by Pat89339; Feb 11, 2016 at 2:46 am Reason: TOS 18
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Old Feb 10, 2016, 5:41 am
  #5220  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4
Code:
Originally Posted by Bhavshah
I had always read in the past one should read about Interlining and how it works. It took me a while to search and put my understanding together from whats on the net. I am now putting publicly posted and widely available information together so that it may be useful to the noob..the Senseis can skip this intro.. BTW, although i have taken great care; If anyone feels I have disclosed anything sensitive then do, please PM me; and I will edit... All (apart from highly complicated tricks on specific OTAs which we will not get into) tickets which you are looking to dump must have EoE allowed. Unless the airline is self-dumping, most dumps arise due to multi-carrier Itins. Multi-carrier itins are possible due to Interlining (also known as "interline ticketing") which is a voluntary commercial agreement between individual airlines to handle passengers traveling on itineraries that require multiple airlines. When you book a multi carrier itin, the system will automatically select a plating (also called a validating carrier/ issuing carrier) which is the airline that validates or issues tickets, and the one that receives the money when the flights are booked. In the event of cancellations this is the carrier with which the flyer has credit. The itinerary would actually show the different airlines eg Leg 1 flown by UA followed by Leg 2 flown by AA etc. Interline agreements are directional. For example, it may be possible for American Airlines to issue the ticket on an American-United itinerary but United might not be able to be issuer on the same itinerary. Interlining agreements differ from codesharing agreements in that codesharing agreements usually refers to numbering a flight with the airline's code (abbreviation) even though the flight is operated by another airline. However, codeshare relationships can affect whether an interline ticket (or e-ticket) can be issued. Both the codeshare marketing carrier and codeshare operating carrier (which owns and is flying the metal) must have interline agreements with all other carriers in the itinerary to allow a single ticket to be issued. Most full service airlines have an interlining agreement with their alliance members and also with competitors in other alliances or independents. The full Master list of Interlining is available on line to purchase at $461 - maybe thats where WWE based his Universal YQ remover from :p Most newer low-cost carrier airlines that only sell directly to consumers (and not through agencies or GDS systems) do not support interlining at all. For example, United Airlines does not have an interline agreement with Southwest Airlines or Easyjet. So searching for a UA dump on Easyjet will not be fruitful Most online travel agencies will only display itineraries that can be ticketed on one of their booking systems. However Orbitz will sometimes display un-ticketable interline itineraries. Examples could be found previously on routes to Mexico involving the now defunct Aero California or on routes to Indonesia involving Lion Air. These are displayed on Orbitz as "contact airline to buy" Hacker fares shown by Kayak are often examples of NON interlining single tickets sold to the unsuspecting public. Two separate tickets will need to be issued and passengers will have to retrieve their bags and carry it to the connecting airline for check-in. Itineraries with interline connections such as this are risky for travelers since the second carrier may be unaware of delays or issues with the incoming flight and it is more likely for luggage to be lost. Anyway assuming an interlining agreement is present between two or more carriers, a single eticket itin can be put together. Before we proceed further we have to understand how IATA subdivides its zones (which is different from C1, C2 etc on our threads) The world is divided into three big Travel Conference Areas- TC1 has North and South America. TC2 has Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. TC3 has Asia and Oceania. Each TC area has a Sub-areas: TC1: North America; Central America; Caribbean; South America TC2: Europe; Middle East; Africa TC3: Japan and Korea; South Asian Subcontinent; South East Asia; South West Pacific Divisions generally respect country (ie the entire country is invariably in one Area) except Russia which is in both TC2 and TC3, divided by the Urals. When there is a single Carrier PNR, the system will calculate the YQ/YR Surcharge based on that airline. If there is more than one airline, Amadeus follows the Default Validating Carrier Processing for YQ/YR for the calculation of YQ/YR taxes, in case of interlining/end-on-end itineraries. Following are the check points done by system in back-end to return most appropriate Validating Carrier, A) BSP participation (entry is TGBD-XX, where XX is the country code)- The BSP is a system designed to facilitate and simplify the selling, reporting and remitting procedures of IATA Accredited Passenger Sales Agents B) GSA table (entry is TGGSD-XX, where XX is the country code)...A general sales agent (GSA) is a sales representative for an airline in a specific country or region. Typically, the GSA is responsible for selling all products of the airline in its region which includes flight tickets and cargo space. A GSA will typically sell the product of more than one airline. C) Interline agreement table (entry is TGAD-XX/YY, where XX is validating carrier and YY is the operating/marketing carrier) D) ATPCO default validating carrier logic, which has following sub-conditions: 1. When the entire journey is same as country: carrier on the first segment is Validating Carrier. Example: MUC - FRA (Carrier LH) FRA - BER (Carrier LT) BER - HAM (Carrier DE) All the sectors are in Germany, so the default validating Carrier is LH. . Implication- If you are looking to dump a multi carrier itin within the same country, its more likely to be a 1x then a 3x. You should look for a carrier with Low YQ/YR for the first leg. If the first condition is not matched, the system analyses condition number 2 2.When the journey is within the same IATA Sub-area: carrier on the first international sector of the journey is Validating Carrier. Example: DEL-BOM (Carrier 9W) BOM - CMB (Carrier UL) CMB - BKK (Carrier TG ) All the sectors are in the same IATA sub-area "South Asian Sub-continent", and the first international sector is between India and Sri Lanka, so the default validating Carrier is UL. I could be wrong but if UL does not have a GSA or official airline presence in the country then it would go to TG (needs to be confirmed by Senseis) although with the OTA world I think this restriction is outdated Implication- If you are looking to dump a multi carrier itin within the same Sub Area, then your X will be where your itin first crosses between two countries - you should look for a carrier with Low YQ/YR for that leg. If the second condition is not matched, the system analyses condition number 3. 3. When the journey is within the same TC area: Carrier on the first segment which crosses IATA sub-area is the Validating Carrier. Example: MAD - PAR (Carrier IB) PAR - FRA (Carrier AF) FRA - CAI (Carrier LH) A IATA sub-area has been crossed between FRA and CAI and all the sectors are in the same TC area (TC2), so the default validating Carrier is LH. Implication-Say you wanted to fly MAD-PAR-FRA, (the first two flights in the example) but there was a large YQ. If you add another flight that crosses a sub-area (like FRA-CAI) at the end of your itinerary, that carrier will be defaulted as the validating carrier. If it has low YQ you may be able to massage the system If the third condition is not matched, the system analyses condition number 4. 4. When the itinerary encompasses exactly two TC areas, then the carrier on the segment which crosses TC area is the Validating Carrier. Example: MAD - PAR (Carrier IB) PAR - SIN (Carrier SQ) There has been a crossing between TC2 and TC3 area (sector PAR-SIN), so the default validating Carrier is SQ. I think by now you should be able to draw your own implications:D If the fourth condition is not matched, the system analyses condition number 5. 5. When the itinerary encompasses exactly three TC areas, such as 'Round The World' then: a.If the two crossings of TC areas are between TC3 and TC2 and between TC2 and TC1, then the selected Validating Carrier is the Carrier from the first sector that crosses between TC2 and TC1. b. If the two crossings of TC areas are not between TC3 and TC2 and between TC2 and TC1, then the selected Validating Carrier is the Carrier from the first sector that crosses a TC area However, please note sometimes two airlines who have interlining agreements may specifically exclude combination or where the Validating and/or the Transporting Carrier have Ticket Stock Restrictions. In such cases, please refer to the Fare Quote Notes of the desired fare. I am not claiming to be the original author of anything- nor do I think I have touched all aspects of interlining and finally PLEASE dont PM me for more assistance on this topic- I am myself just learning so am not a Sensei:rolleyes: Feel free to add- I hope for all the Elders understanding and hope not to have broken any laws of the board's Omerta:D
Very useful post for me (as a newbee). Maybe you have some tips for searching 3x ? Only tips not the exact path

Last edited by mateusz232; Feb 10, 2016 at 7:44 am
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