Nov 20, 2013, 7:48 am
Last edit by: Pat89339
Do not call the airlines under any conditions! This is the fastest way to kill the trick and bring unwanted attention to your itinerary! And do not post precious deals in this thread, this is by far the fastest way to kill the trick!
************************************************** ******
This is NOT the right place to ask: "Can you help me with a low fare for AAA-BBB?" This is not the beg-it thread, but the trick-it thread.
This thread deals with unique combinations of routes and booking tricks in order to lower prices on airline fares. Prices that would astound the general public are often achieved by the posters in this thread.
Many people, including airline representatives, monitor this thread. For that reason, it is unorganized, very content heavy, often lacking details, and written in shorthand. It takes patience and effort in order to understand the conversation and be able to participate as an active member.
We encourage you to read the entirety of this thread if you would like to get started and to experiment as soon as you understand the gist of Trick It. Lots of time spent reading, practicing, and learning is the only way to be able to reproduce our tricks and discover new ones yourself. There are many, many people who ask for advice here, so productive members are only able to help those who have shown a concerted effort and progress over a long period of time (months).
If you have no idea what this thread is about, a good place to start are various blogs' posts on the subject. At the very least, read the Rules for posting in this thread. They're also listed in the very first post, below.
Older portions of the thread have been separated into archive thread by year. They are listed below
2008 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2009 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2010 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2011 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2012 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2013 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2014 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
************************************************** ******
This is NOT the right place to ask: "Can you help me with a low fare for AAA-BBB?" This is not the beg-it thread, but the trick-it thread.
This thread deals with unique combinations of routes and booking tricks in order to lower prices on airline fares. Prices that would astound the general public are often achieved by the posters in this thread.
Many people, including airline representatives, monitor this thread. For that reason, it is unorganized, very content heavy, often lacking details, and written in shorthand. It takes patience and effort in order to understand the conversation and be able to participate as an active member.
We encourage you to read the entirety of this thread if you would like to get started and to experiment as soon as you understand the gist of Trick It. Lots of time spent reading, practicing, and learning is the only way to be able to reproduce our tricks and discover new ones yourself. There are many, many people who ask for advice here, so productive members are only able to help those who have shown a concerted effort and progress over a long period of time (months).
If you have no idea what this thread is about, a good place to start are various blogs' posts on the subject. At the very least, read the Rules for posting in this thread. They're also listed in the very first post, below.
Older portions of the thread have been separated into archive thread by year. They are listed below
2008 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2009 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2010 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2011 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2012 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2013 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2014 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
Trick it / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
Feb 4, 2016, 5:57 am
#5161
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: BTS, VIE, BUD
Programs: LH Silver, IHG Gold
Posts: 17
Code:
Avreise
MN.MIN STAY
NO RESTRICTIONS
MX.MAX STAY
NO RESTRICTIONS
DA.DAY/TIME
NO RESTRICTIONS
SR.SALES RESTRICT
NO RESTRICTIONS
AP.ADVANCE RES/TKT
FOR BOW7NRX FARES
RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED AT LEAST 7 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE
OF EACH FARE COMPONENT.
OPEN RETURNS NOT PERMITTED.
TICKETING FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH FARE COMPONENT MUST BE
COMPLETED WITHIN 72 HOURS AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR
AT LEAST 7 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER.
NOTE -
ALL RESERVATIONS MADE WITHOUT TICKET NUMBER WILL
BE CANCELLED AUTOMATICALLY AFTER TICKETING
DEADLINE.
CD.CHILD DISCOUNTS
ACCOMPANIED CHILD 2-11 - CHARGE 50 PERCENT OF THE FARE.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME COMPARTMENT
BY ADULT 16 OR OLDER
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 50 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED IN SAME COMPARTMENT BY ADULT 16
OR OLDER
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - CHARGE 10 PERCENT OF
THE FARE.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT 16 OR OLDER
OR - UNACCOMPANIED CHILD 5-11 - CHARGE 50 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
NOTE -
UNACCOMPANIED MINORS UNDER 5 YEARS OF AGE WILL
NOT BE ACCEPTED FOR CARRIAGE.
SO.STOPOVERS
NO STOPOVERS PERMITTED
PE.PENALTIES
CHANGES/CANCELLATIONS
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. CHANGES NOT PERMITTED IN CASE
OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW/REFUND/REISSUE/REVALIDATION.
NOTE -
ANYTIME
- NO REFUNDS
- NO EXCHANGES
CO.COMBINABILITY
APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN
MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS - CATEGORY 23.
END-ON-END
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITH NORMAL OR SPECIAL
DOMESTIC/INTERNATIONAL FARES. VALIDATE ALL FARE
COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER GL WITH ANY RULE IN ANY
PUBLIC TARIFF.
OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE
TRIPS.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER GL IN ANY
RULE IN TARIFF
IPRSAA2 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRWD - WITHIN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-DOMESTIC.
Hjemreise
MN.MIN STAY
NO RESTRICTIONS
MX.MAX STAY
NO RESTRICTIONS
DA.DAY/TIME
NO RESTRICTIONS
SR.SALES RESTRICT
FROM/TO CPH FOR KOW7NRX TYPE FARES
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON GL .
AP.ADVANCE RES/TKT
FOR KOW7NRX FARES
RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED AT LEAST 7 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE
OF EACH FARE COMPONENT.
OPEN RETURNS NOT PERMITTED.
TICKETING FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH FARE COMPONENT MUST BE
COMPLETED WITHIN 72 HOURS AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR
AT LEAST 7 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER.
NOTE -
ALL RESERVATIONS MADE WITHOUT TICKET NUMBER WILL
BE CANCELLED AUTOMATICALLY AFTER TICKETING
DEADLINE.
CD.CHILD DISCOUNTS
ACCOMPANIED CHILD 2-11 - CHARGE 50 PERCENT OF THE FARE.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME COMPARTMENT
BY ADULT 16 OR OLDER
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 50 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED IN SAME COMPARTMENT BY ADULT 16
OR OLDER
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - CHARGE 10 PERCENT OF
THE FARE.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT 16 OR OLDER
OR - UNACCOMPANIED CHILD 5-11 - CHARGE 50 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
NOTE -
UNACCOMPANIED MINORS UNDER 5 YEARS OF AGE WILL
NOT BE ACCEPTED FOR CARRIAGE.
SO.STOPOVERS
NO STOPOVERS PERMITTED
PE.PENALTIES
CHANGES/CANCELLATIONS
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. CHANGES NOT PERMITTED IN CASE
OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW/REFUND/REISSUE/REVALIDATION.
NOTE -
ANYTIME
- NO REFUNDS
- NO EXCHANGES
CO.COMBINABILITY
APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN
MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS - CATEGORY 23.
END-ON-END
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITH NORMAL OR SPECIAL
DOMESTIC/INTERNATIONAL FARES. VALIDATE ALL FARE
COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER GL WITH ANY RULE IN ANY
PUBLIC TARIFF.
OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE
TRIPS.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER GL IN ANY
RULE IN TARIFF
IPRSAA2 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRWD - WITHIN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-DOMESTIC.
Feb 4, 2016, 1:06 pm
#5162
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: Mileage Plus, AAdvantage, Executive Club
Posts: 198
Feb 5, 2016, 2:21 pm
#5165
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Montréal, Canada
Posts: 1,610
A currently popular MR thread featuring a C1-C3 OJ fare on *A, but in conjunction with a 1X that is not only flyable, but desirable. $388 USD A/I, earning upwards of 18K PQM. Bookable on a major OTA and ITA'able. Discardable 3X options do not require an OJ flight, but cost approximately $50-$75 more, depending on the 3X.
Feb 6, 2016, 8:09 am
#5166
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 96
Feb 7, 2016, 12:08 am
#5167
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 54
DOUBLE OPEN JAWS NOT PERMITTED.
END-ON-END NOT PERMITTED. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED
APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN
MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS - CATEGORY 23.
OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OPEN JAWS.
MILEAGE OF THE OPEN SEGMENT MUST BE EQUAL/LESS THAN
MILEAGE OF THE SHORTEST FLOWN FARE COMPONENT.
-TO FORM ROUND TRIPS
-TO FORM CIRCLE TRIPS EXCEPT FOR AROUND-THE-WORLD FARES.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER KL/AF/AZ/OK/
DL/AS/QX/ZK/3M IN ANY RULE IN TARIFF
IPRA - USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRAI - BETWEEN THE USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 VIA ATLANTIC
IPRSAA2 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRSAA3 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 3 VIA
ATLANTIC.
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER DL/AF/KL/AZ
IN RULE 2222/4444 IN TARIFF
ATDLR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2
OR RULE EC80/EC81/EC82/EC83/EC84/EC85/EC86/EC87/EC88/
EC89/EC95 IN TARIFF
FBRINPV - BETWEEN USA/CA-AREA 1/2/3
OR RULE 2222/4444 IN TARIFF
TAPVR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2.
NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-
BWI-WAS FLL-MIA OAK-SFO OAK-SJC SFO-SJC LAX-ONT
LAX-BUR LAX-LGB LAX-SNA ONT-BUR ONT-LGB ONT-SNA
BUR-LGB BUR-SNA LGB-SNA NYC-EWR
Any way around this or am i hitting a brick wall?
END-ON-END NOT PERMITTED. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED
APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN
MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS - CATEGORY 23.
OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OPEN JAWS.
MILEAGE OF THE OPEN SEGMENT MUST BE EQUAL/LESS THAN
MILEAGE OF THE SHORTEST FLOWN FARE COMPONENT.
-TO FORM ROUND TRIPS
-TO FORM CIRCLE TRIPS EXCEPT FOR AROUND-THE-WORLD FARES.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER KL/AF/AZ/OK/
DL/AS/QX/ZK/3M IN ANY RULE IN TARIFF
IPRA - USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRAI - BETWEEN THE USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 VIA ATLANTIC
IPRSAA2 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRSAA3 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 3 VIA
ATLANTIC.
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER DL/AF/KL/AZ
IN RULE 2222/4444 IN TARIFF
ATDLR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2
OR RULE EC80/EC81/EC82/EC83/EC84/EC85/EC86/EC87/EC88/
EC89/EC95 IN TARIFF
FBRINPV - BETWEEN USA/CA-AREA 1/2/3
OR RULE 2222/4444 IN TARIFF
TAPVR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2.
NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-
BWI-WAS FLL-MIA OAK-SFO OAK-SJC SFO-SJC LAX-ONT
LAX-BUR LAX-LGB LAX-SNA ONT-BUR ONT-LGB ONT-SNA
BUR-LGB BUR-SNA LGB-SNA NYC-EWR
Any way around this or am i hitting a brick wall?
Feb 7, 2016, 1:01 am
#5168
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 610
DOUBLE OPEN JAWS NOT PERMITTED.
END-ON-END NOT PERMITTED. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED
APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN
MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS - CATEGORY 23.
OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OPEN JAWS.
MILEAGE OF THE OPEN SEGMENT MUST BE EQUAL/LESS THAN
MILEAGE OF THE SHORTEST FLOWN FARE COMPONENT.
-TO FORM ROUND TRIPS
-TO FORM CIRCLE TRIPS EXCEPT FOR AROUND-THE-WORLD FARES.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER KL/AF/AZ/OK/
DL/AS/QX/ZK/3M IN ANY RULE IN TARIFF
IPRA - USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRAI - BETWEEN THE USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 VIA ATLANTIC
IPRSAA2 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRSAA3 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 3 VIA
ATLANTIC.
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER DL/AF/KL/AZ
IN RULE 2222/4444 IN TARIFF
ATDLR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2
OR RULE EC80/EC81/EC82/EC83/EC84/EC85/EC86/EC87/EC88/
EC89/EC95 IN TARIFF
FBRINPV - BETWEEN USA/CA-AREA 1/2/3
OR RULE 2222/4444 IN TARIFF
TAPVR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2.
NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-
BWI-WAS FLL-MIA OAK-SFO OAK-SJC SFO-SJC LAX-ONT
LAX-BUR LAX-LGB LAX-SNA ONT-BUR ONT-LGB ONT-SNA
BUR-LGB BUR-SNA LGB-SNA NYC-EWR
Any way around this or am i hitting a brick wall?
END-ON-END NOT PERMITTED. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED
APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN
MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS - CATEGORY 23.
OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OPEN JAWS.
MILEAGE OF THE OPEN SEGMENT MUST BE EQUAL/LESS THAN
MILEAGE OF THE SHORTEST FLOWN FARE COMPONENT.
-TO FORM ROUND TRIPS
-TO FORM CIRCLE TRIPS EXCEPT FOR AROUND-THE-WORLD FARES.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER KL/AF/AZ/OK/
DL/AS/QX/ZK/3M IN ANY RULE IN TARIFF
IPRA - USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRAI - BETWEEN THE USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 VIA ATLANTIC
IPRSAA2 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRSAA3 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 3 VIA
ATLANTIC.
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER DL/AF/KL/AZ
IN RULE 2222/4444 IN TARIFF
ATDLR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2
OR RULE EC80/EC81/EC82/EC83/EC84/EC85/EC86/EC87/EC88/
EC89/EC95 IN TARIFF
FBRINPV - BETWEEN USA/CA-AREA 1/2/3
OR RULE 2222/4444 IN TARIFF
TAPVR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2.
NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-
BWI-WAS FLL-MIA OAK-SFO OAK-SJC SFO-SJC LAX-ONT
LAX-BUR LAX-LGB LAX-SNA ONT-BUR ONT-LGB ONT-SNA
BUR-LGB BUR-SNA LGB-SNA NYC-EWR
Any way around this or am i hitting a brick wall?
Last edited by klanfa; Feb 7, 2016 at 1:02 am Reason: typo
Feb 7, 2016, 1:10 am
#5169
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Valencia, Spain
Programs: Pascal and Python, no C++
Posts: 738
the fact that you posted a lot of unrelated parts of these show that you indeed hit a brick wall, even if it weren't that obvious.
Never say never, though, when it comes to FD, and you might want to read through this thread to find if there is any other important information in the fare rules that you haven't shown us.
Never say never, though, when it comes to FD, and you might want to read through this thread to find if there is any other important information in the fare rules that you haven't shown us.
Feb 7, 2016, 11:03 pm
#5171
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 54
the fact that you posted a lot of unrelated parts of these show that you indeed hit a brick wall, even if it weren't that obvious.
Never say never, though, when it comes to FD, and you might want to read through this thread to find if there is any other important information in the fare rules that you haven't shown us.
Never say never, though, when it comes to FD, and you might want to read through this thread to find if there is any other important information in the fare rules that you haven't shown us.
Feb 8, 2016, 12:25 am
#5172
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 610
After reading through a lot of this thread, I want to see how close I can get to the best fare (I believe I have some 3x candidates). The combinations I got so far trim the fat, but add on a lot to base fares :/
Feb 8, 2016, 1:12 am
#5173
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Germany
Programs: AV,ST,OW Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 209
Well, read the fare rules, read the fares rules to see whats allowed. Other stuff will just bump the fare up. Its normal.
Feb 8, 2016, 5:27 am
#5174
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Africa
Programs: A3 Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 92
Great fare- Mileage run territory!
C5- C1(e), C1(w)-C3- $597.76
2x Shark 20,277 miles, 2.95 cents per mile...
C5- C6, C6-C3- $744.80
2x Shark 20,088 miles, 3.71 cents per mile...
Local Variations on a "Borrowed" theme...
2x Shark 20,277 miles, 2.95 cents per mile...
C5- C6, C6-C3- $744.80
2x Shark 20,088 miles, 3.71 cents per mile...
Local Variations on a "Borrowed" theme...
Last edited by Bhavshah; Feb 8, 2016 at 6:26 am Reason: Better fare
Feb 8, 2016, 7:20 am
#5175
Join Date: Nov 2014
Programs: Starbucks Gold
Posts: 185
Need input of experienced people-
I flew on a dumped itinerary last week on *A. I am crediting to a partner airline which gives full credit. I have done similar trips in the past and had the miles credited within 2-3 days of segments flown. I am doing the return segment in a couple of days and onward journey miles not yet credited after more than 3 days. I am keen on this since it will bump me into next tier and give me access to lounge on the return leg during which I have a looong layover.
Obviously not calling, but if credit does not happen after several more days should I use the claim miles for past flights section? Will that raise questions?
What is good practice in such situations?
On a somewhat related matter do eBay sales of lounge passes claiming electronic delivery work? Am scrambling since I expected credit and access by now.
Bob
I flew on a dumped itinerary last week on *A. I am crediting to a partner airline which gives full credit. I have done similar trips in the past and had the miles credited within 2-3 days of segments flown. I am doing the return segment in a couple of days and onward journey miles not yet credited after more than 3 days. I am keen on this since it will bump me into next tier and give me access to lounge on the return leg during which I have a looong layover.
Obviously not calling, but if credit does not happen after several more days should I use the claim miles for past flights section? Will that raise questions?
What is good practice in such situations?
On a somewhat related matter do eBay sales of lounge passes claiming electronic delivery work? Am scrambling since I expected credit and access by now.
Bob