I got this in Munich once while traveling with a friend who looks like he's spent a bit too much time in Berkeley.
My response? "Plenty." That was the end of it.
Regarding quick trips (MRs), I don't see anything wrong with telling them you're staying for leisure for 4 days and then changing your mind and turning around after you leave the customs hall...
I agree... maybe it's best to "lie" a bit in favor of what you think they want to hear. For example, if you know that a one day trip comes up as suspicious on their radar, then either dont ever take one day trips, or tell them it's more days. Unless you show them your tickets, I dont think they have any way of knowing how long it is. Then you have avoided the issue and can come back as planned in one day anyway. You could have changed your mind.
Similarly, if someone from, say, the EU wanted to work in the USA, then when they get here on a tourist visa, they should never mention this fact. they should instead just go on interviews (which is perfectly legal to do, but it's best not to mention that to officers upon entry) and find out what they can and THEN start the process when everything they are trying to do is in place. Same goes for marriage. Here in the states, we are set up very puritanical. In order to live here with the residency visa, most people must be married or have a job that sponsors them. I have some experience with both of these things having a Dutch wife and also having been a recruiter for high end job placement. But in Holland, for example, marriage does not matter. Over there, if you can prove you are a couple where the Dutch resident is working enough to keep you both from using the government for welfare, and if you can prove you are at least able and willing to work, they will most likely grant you the visa over time. It's a bit involved but a lot more "friendly." When you enter the EU, they rarely grill you with the same level of intensity that they do over here. We have a cousin who works in customs at Schiphol and he manages half of those young people you'd see working the passport booths when you come into the country. They are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much more professional and world-understanding than the old mean farts we often have working at ours! I mean, to come to the USA these days is like trying to get your first college job at the hippest bar on campus when you're not considered in the "in crowd" but over in Holland, I found they kinda let you in as long as you look normal like everybody else. We are behind. Europe is better. I think Canada has begun to follow the US's lead and that's sad. They used to be more like Europe. NOt any more.
__________________
That’s Punny: A guy with miles to burn may well find a gal who wants to play with fire.
Programs: UA*G, 9wPlat, LH SEN, AA Plat, Sixt Plat, *was* SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG...
Posts: 3,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marathon Man
When you enter the EU, they rarely grill you with the same level of intensity that they do over here. We have a cousin who works in customs at Schiphol and he manages half of those young people you'd see working the passport booths when you come into the country. They are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much more professional and world-understanding than the old mean farts we often have working at ours!
Haven't entered the EU from Holland in a long, long time, as flying with *A.
However, today, entering FRA with US old-style passport, the German officers, who had nobody else to "cater" to, decide to mildly hassle me, stating (in German) that a lot of Italian guys are showing up with altered US passports like these, then stating that I do not have any more place to stamp inside, when I had just had additional pages attached to the passport, but either they were not observant enough, or just trying to bust my chops, being dark-haired...
It is similar to how LH is reacting to UA status pax, basically trying to demean them completely at FRA...
Not a good trend there...
While in VIE, I never, ever have anyone question my entry to the EU...
I agree... maybe it's best to "lie" a bit in favor of what you think they want to hear. For example, if you know that a one day trip comes up as suspicious on their radar, then either dont ever take one day trips, or tell them it's more days. Unless you show them your tickets, I dont think they have any way of knowing how long it is. Then you have avoided the issue and can come back as planned in one day anyway. You could have changed your mind.
I would not recommend this in the many countries that collect return travel data (mostly automatically from airline or by asking for proof of onward travel at immigration if they don't already have this info).
A lot of what is written here, though I am sure was frightening for those who don't deal with customs officials on a weekly frequency, are anecdotal and really aren't out of the ordinary. Customs officials are not there to be nice and friendly; it is their job to be suspicious. They will ask you three or four questions, and if you tell them that you are staying for less than a day, that is where the questioning will most likely have its focus. Getting pulled into secondary for two hours is very very rare.
Canada Customs and their obsession with pornography is embarassing, and the OP has every right to be upset. (A more generous person may infer that they had received some sort of tip that a German kiddie porn baron was passing through that day; more likely, they are just a little bit retentive and obsess over dirty pictures.) Still, when you see the number of pax that walk through Customs in less than 5 minutes every day, it is clear that Customs cannot and does not pull a lot of people out of line.
How could you avoid this hassle completely on a mileage run? Well, you could stretch the definition of "business". A one day trip to Calgary could allow you to pick up an important book relating to your field at the University of Calgary; you could finally see that example of late 1970s shopping mall that you want to invest in back home. Whatever, as long as it isn't untrue, it doesn't have to be the whole truth.
The last part of my story gets most people I tell it to even more angry... after a thorough search of my computer, luggage and cell phone log, the Customs officers then demanded to know if I was there to "have an affair."
I started laughing, told them no, but even if I was, what Canadian laws would that break?
They finally called my wife, left a message to phone Canadian customs, it was an emergency. She returns the call 30 minutes later, quite relieved that there was nothing wrong or particularly "emergent".
"Do you know your husband is in Canada?"
Wife: "Yes."
"He told us he was travelling to Canada for the frequent flier miles. Does that sound correct to you?"
Wife: "Oh, yeah, he does that all the time." (By now, she was quite bulls*it, trying to calm down after receiving this emergency message!)
"Do you think he could be meeting someone here in Canada?"
Wife: "You mean a woman?"
"It's been known to happen."
Now my wife was quite angry (with the agent, not me!), but also tried to figure out the best way to get me out of the Customs purgatory. "Well, I will just have to sort that out with him," she replied. We have been laughing about this ever since!
Following which the Customs agents comes back to me, says my wife corroborated my story about MRs, but was quite angry with me! I was free to go. I then told the agent that I would prefer not to spend a single dollar in this country, that I thought that the agent's behaviour bordered on outrageous, and goodbye! I then marched upstairs and made an attempt ot get on the last DL Connection flight to SLC, a 430P departure. (I had arrived shortly after 1PM.) This proved unsuccessful as they were not allowed to sell new tickets within one hour of the flight due to regs that required them to report passenger list in advance to the TSA.
BTW, I always figure that it is best not to say you are there on business because that opens a whole 'nuther can of worms... are you getting paid, are there goods or samples etc etc.
My point in posting these experiences is not to diminish the sovereignty of Canada and the right to guard their borders. But eventually, after a through laptop, luggage and cell phone search, you would think they would easily come to the conclusion that maybe there was nothing sinister about this 55 year old calorically challenged Massachusetts physician after all.
The last part of my story gets most people I tell it to even more angry... after a thorough search of my computer, luggage and cell phone log, the Customs officers then demanded to know if I was there to "have an affair."
Of course I was referring to those posters who were not subject to secondary inspections; those are rare, and I would guess 99.997% of the time, unfounded. There are a lot of posts here about being asked at initial inspection if they had enough money, what is the purpose of your visit, the kind of questions we get at every p.o.e. to every country.
I don't disagree with you that the agent was a complete jerk, and that he had no business calling your wife to tell on you, but you have to admit, it is a bit odd for anyone to visit another country for less than 24 hours, especially such a dignified person such as yourself. For those who do not live in our world, Mileagerunners seem awfully suspicious.
One can hope that while they're giving you (the perfectly innocent traveller) a hard time, those who are out to do harm such as drug and gun smugglers/couriers of other illegal goods, money launderers, and terrorists are getting by the hundreds. I do.
__________________
"I have a fear of flying. I fear flying in the back cabin" My Flight Memory
Thankfully the immigration agent at SYD was a lot less suspicious. He essentially chuckled when I responded to his "Where are you staying?" question with telling him that I was running to the Opera House, taking some pictures, going on the tour and coming back. Of course it probably helped that I was on my way home AKL-SYD-SFO..
Some of these secondary stories don't make me all that eager to include any Canadian airports in mileage runs. After all the Mileage Runs turnarounds / turnabouts / transits thread doesn't recount these types of secondary horror stories from mileage runners in other countries except Canada when you're truthful about the reason for your flight.
The last part of my story gets most people I tell it to even more angry... after a thorough search of my computer, luggage and cell phone log, the Customs officers then demanded to know if I was there to "have an affair."...
Obviously, they're concerned lest Canada develop into a sex tourism destination.
Does anyone know how to read the code custom agent put on your Canadian declaration card? i.e. R84 / K21...etc. Which ones are good and which ones are for secondary screening?
Programs: AF Gold, BA EC Blue, LH FTL, HH Gold, A|Club Silver
Posts: 4,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsme
I don't wish to put too fine a point on this or be argumentative, but have you ever tried to enter Canada or any other country and been turned back? I never have, so can't say anything based on personal experience. My guess is that the decision to deny someone entry at an airport or border crossing point would not rest with the most junior immigration officer, that is the initial screener, especially not in an "advanced" country like Canada with a Western-type legal system. Indeed, I would be very surprised if the lower level person would not have to involve "a supervisor and/or immigration lawyer" (their lawyer, not one retained by you) and get their concurrence in a decision to deny you entry. Now, you may think that they should disclose to you their reasons for denying you entry; and you may think that you should be afforded other incidents of "due process," including the opportunity to be represented by counsel; but standing on a country's doorstep, not within its borders where you might have some legal rights, you don't. (Would you really expect/want the US government to grant a full panoply of rights to anyone and everyone who could get a common carrier to drop him/her at one of our airports, ports, or land crossings, or arrive at one on their own?)
Now I do see that you are from Fayetteville, NC, home of the go-to guys of the 82nd Airborne, the Screaming Eagles. If you thought they were going to turn you away, then you might intimate that you are a very close friend of both Senators Dole and Burr, who would gladly dispatch the 82nd Airborne to intervene if you were hassled. The Canucks have no answer to the 82nd Airborne.
Sorry for the delay in response. Been traveling (imagine that!)
No, I've never been turned around at a border, thank goodness. But the Canada issue struck a nerve because of an unpleasant experience I had with a Canadian land border crossing officer at Niagara Falls. It bothers me when I see stories, particularly of people trying to enter the US, with valid VISAs, get turned back for questionable reasons. It also bugs me reading in these threads of the increasing unpleasantness of Canadian border control officers. I usually go to Europe, so maybe I'm just used to polite, efficient border agents. Then I hear stories of ogres at our borders detaining people for hours interrogating them. Now, who is not going to be nervous when two or three immigration officers are rapid-fire questioning, often in an unfamiliar language? Since people usually cannot board a flight at their departure point without passing the requirements for entry (passport/VISA), it bugs me that they would get all the way to Canada (or America) only to get hassled and turned around.
I don't begrudge them the right to question, but do so in a polite manner and understand that people may travel for strange reasons. A MR, while unusual to an outsider, is perfectly legal, and as long as one meets the entry requirements, one should be allowed entry without undue delay. Most MRs have return ticket confirmation and/or hotel bookings to prove their insanity. Why is that so hard to believe?
PS-Yes, I'm in NC, but am an AK resident, so that means I'd have to call on Ted Stevens and he has other things to worry about right now.
I was on the cheap NW fare from Winnipeg to Bucharest last year. Drove from MN to Winnipeg and was stopped by Canadian customs for 2 hours at the border while they searched my car from front to back - every single item in my glove compartment all the way to the trunk. Opened every suitcase, looked through everything, turned on my laptop looking for stuff. Finally allowed to go 2 hours later (fortunately I left early enough to try and catch an earlier flight from YWG to MSP so I had enough time to make my originally scheduled departure).
Returned to the US a week later (didn't use the fare just for MR purposes - had things to do in Europe). Upon returning to the US in MSP I was also singled out for similar scrutiny by the US customs officials. Same drill though easier since only had my luggage and not all the junk in my car. But similar questions, similar scrutiny, similar search of laptop. After the initial questioning by the US officials, one told me they were going to search my luggage and asked if I wanted to change any of my answers. I said, "No." In retrospect I should have said, "Do you mean are you asking me to lie?" At the end I did mention that I had been scrutinized twice on this trip and asked if I was on some "list." He said no and the best way to avoid the scrutiny is to tell the truth. I said, "I did but I still was screened." He didn't answer.
Frustrating but next time I am selected I will probably say very little and just let them look through everything. They are going to look anyway whether I answer their questions or not. I know this might sound confrontational but I would just say something politely like "I prefer not to answer that." I would probably only do this upon entering the US since they could not deny me entry into my own country without reasonable cause.
I knwo it's kind of off topic but why is it that when we used DUB as a plane change only from AMS-BOS, we had to go thru passport control? We were not planning on staying in Ireland. This cost us 1.25 hrs as the guy in front of us was from Nigeria so he got the 3rd degree. In some cities, like even the dreaded LHR, you do not go thru passport control if you are just say, connecting from BOS-AMS. Why oh why do all the country's airports have to do it differently? Can't some consortium of airport uber staff experts come up with one way that works? I would imagine it would model off the dutch, as I find Schiphol to be the best airport in nearly every aspect except sometimes international desk check in can be a bit slow some times. Just a bit.
Vancouver, however, is THE worst ever!
__________________
That’s Punny: A guy with miles to burn may well find a gal who wants to play with fire.
USA is worse (in my experience) for international transit than Ireland. It always takes me 2-3 hours transitting at LAX for example, even if I am continuing on the same a/c.
Programs: AF Gold, BA EC Blue, LH FTL, HH Gold, A|Club Silver
Posts: 4,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marathon Man
I knwo it's kind of off topic but why is it that when we used DUB as a plane change only from AMS-BOS, we had to go thru passport control? We were not planning on staying in Ireland. This cost us 1.25 hrs as the guy in front of us was from Nigeria so he got the 3rd degree. In some cities, like even the dreaded LHR, you do not go thru passport control if you are just say, connecting from BOS-AMS. Why oh why do all the country's airports have to do it differently? Can't some consortium of airport uber staff experts come up with one way that works? I would imagine it would model off the dutch, as I find Schiphol to be the best airport in nearly every aspect except sometimes international desk check in can be a bit slow some times. Just a bit.
Vancouver, however, is THE worst ever!
Was this a Schengen immigration, or US Immigration? I know that US pre-clears in Ireland but I didn't think DUB was one of those. I've never had to immigrate into a Schengen country if I'm just passing through.
