Dec 13, 2016, 5:03 pm
Last edit by: irishguy28
Unofficial cancellation statement from Alitalia: see post #2414, or the original post in Italian on a similar Italian forum
COW8C fare rules available in post #147 (second box)
DOW8C fare rules available in post #150
IOWGE fare rules available in post #1241
IRTGE fare rules available in post #1555
CRTEU fare rules available in post #1589
DOWGE fare rules available in post #1601
IRT8C2 fare rules available in post #2105
COW8C fare rules available in post #147 (second box)
DOW8C fare rules available in post #150
IOWGE fare rules available in post #1241
IRTGE fare rules available in post #1555
CRTEU fare rules available in post #1589
DOWGE fare rules available in post #1601
IRT8C2 fare rules available in post #2105
[PREM FARE GONE] FLR-HKG/ICN/NRT-DUS from 770 / J
Dec 16, 2016, 2:19 am
#3031
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: LONDON
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 104
Third time calling Expedia (UK) - 30 mins so far and 4th 'department' or 'team' the very helpful operator has tried to resolve the situation (i.e. process a refund).. and I have to call Alitalia as they are the only ones who can refund this now. I call Alitalia and surprise surprise they are passing it back to Expedia as they need to initiate the refund process. 'kin hell!
Dec 16, 2016, 2:24 am
#3033
Join Date: May 2013
Location: west coast best coast
Programs: TINDER GOLD, STARBUCKS GOLD, COSTCO EXECUTIVE!!
Posts: 3,987
Sorry to differ but you might want to check facts before jumping to conclusions, especially when such conclusions could be very worrying to non-experienced members.
1. When a carrier wants to force certain things, taking control over the ticket is the most convenient way to do so. This might not always be compliant with certain IATA standards but it does happen. Much easier for AZ to force reroutings etc when they overrule the OTA.
2. They only cancel their own PNR's because that's far easier than to cancel other carrier's PNR's. I might be wrong but based on my own tickets it seems at least that only PNR's for AZ marketed flights are affected with the exception of the AZ marketed, EY operated segments. I assume that this is mainly due to the fact that they need some kind of cooperation from EY but I am not sure. Anyway, the modus operandi is to cancel AZ PNR and based on that cancellation exchange/reissue the ticket with a PNR (for an AZ FLR-DUS or vv). This exchange causes the invalidity of the original ticket that is still attached to the other PNR's (CX for instance). Result: the other PNR is orphaned due to the lack of a valid underlying eticket.
3. If the tix would be honored as booked, AZ will be the one paying the applicable fare for flights on other carriers, based on their mutual specific pricing agreements.
1. When a carrier wants to force certain things, taking control over the ticket is the most convenient way to do so. This might not always be compliant with certain IATA standards but it does happen. Much easier for AZ to force reroutings etc when they overrule the OTA.
2. They only cancel their own PNR's because that's far easier than to cancel other carrier's PNR's. I might be wrong but based on my own tickets it seems at least that only PNR's for AZ marketed flights are affected with the exception of the AZ marketed, EY operated segments. I assume that this is mainly due to the fact that they need some kind of cooperation from EY but I am not sure. Anyway, the modus operandi is to cancel AZ PNR and based on that cancellation exchange/reissue the ticket with a PNR (for an AZ FLR-DUS or vv). This exchange causes the invalidity of the original ticket that is still attached to the other PNR's (CX for instance). Result: the other PNR is orphaned due to the lack of a valid underlying eticket.
3. If the tix would be honored as booked, AZ will be the one paying the applicable fare for flights on other carriers, based on their mutual specific pricing agreements.
Last edited by Pat89339; Dec 16, 2016 at 8:06 am Reason: Remove response to deleted quote
Dec 16, 2016, 2:25 am
#3034
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,665
[OT] I do not live in Italy but, trust me, there are worse things which could reflect poorly on an entire country, even though I appreciate that, living in the US, you are probably more sensitive to badly reflecting factors, especially in the last few months 
[/OT and with all due respect]
G
[/OT and with all due respect]G
One tweet from him to Alitalia, and all this could be resolved. ^
Or lead to a trade war between the US and Italy. They could impound Alitalia planes in the US and reconfigure them for use as future Air Force Ones, given that the Boeing contract turns out to be too expensive
Dec 16, 2016, 2:29 am
#3035
Join Date: Apr 2016
Programs: UA Mileage Plus Delta SkyMiles
Posts: 424
Has anyone considered alerting the President Elect?
One tweet from him to Alitalia, and all this could be resolved. ^
Or lead to a trade war between the US and Italy. They could impound Alitalia planes in the US and reconfigure them for use as future Air Force Ones, given that the Boeing contract turns out to be too expensive
One tweet from him to Alitalia, and all this could be resolved. ^
Or lead to a trade war between the US and Italy. They could impound Alitalia planes in the US and reconfigure them for use as future Air Force Ones, given that the Boeing contract turns out to be too expensive
#I voted for HRC
Dec 16, 2016, 2:29 am
#3036
Join Date: May 2013
Location: west coast best coast
Programs: TINDER GOLD, STARBUCKS GOLD, COSTCO EXECUTIVE!!
Posts: 3,987
Has anyone considered alerting the President Elect?
One tweet from him to Alitalia, and all this could be resolved. ^
Or lead to a trade war between the US and Italy. They could impound Alitalia planes in the US and reconfigure them for use as future Air Force Ones, given that the Boeing contract turns out to be too expensive
One tweet from him to Alitalia, and all this could be resolved. ^
Or lead to a trade war between the US and Italy. They could impound Alitalia planes in the US and reconfigure them for use as future Air Force Ones, given that the Boeing contract turns out to be too expensive
But that's nothing unique to Italy. The comparisons between the President Elect and Berlusconi have been made for several months now, right up to the New York Times.
Dec 16, 2016, 2:31 am
#3037
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,645
Has anyone considered alerting the President Elect?
One tweet from him to Alitalia, and all this could be resolved. ^
Or lead to a trade war between the US and Italy. They could impound Alitalia planes in the US and reconfigure them for use as future Air Force Ones, given that the Boeing contract turns out to be too expensive
One tweet from him to Alitalia, and all this could be resolved. ^
Or lead to a trade war between the US and Italy. They could impound Alitalia planes in the US and reconfigure them for use as future Air Force Ones, given that the Boeing contract turns out to be too expensive
...which certainly doesn't seem to apply to the AZ vs Customer relationship
G
Dec 16, 2016, 2:32 am
#3038
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: HAM
Posts: 24
Thanks for your explanation but I don't see how you address the problem that OTAs now can't issue refunds. We already have people reporting OTAs referring to Alitalia and Alitalia referring back to OTAs. Why shouldn't people be worried?
Dec 16, 2016, 2:32 am
#3039
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Hague, NL
Programs: GMLFL, Life 2.0 - Mucci Premiere Classe & des Chevaliers Toulousiens
Posts: 22,911
Machiavelli Fare Resolution numero tre....
Called Expedia (NL for those who asked per PM) again this morning. This time I talked to someone who knew what she was talking about. The first flight (the rerouted one) is indeed under control of the airline, but you have to deal with the OTA to get it sorted. They will now contact AZ to try and get the original routing reinstated. A good argument is that you searched for a multi-city on the OTA's website and not a oneway ticket to DUS. She assured me that in case AZ does not reinstate the original booking she will see what Expedia can do (probably nothing) but confirms that the tickets are fully refundable (minus the booking fee, but she will have a look at that too).
The booking I cancelled and for which they charged me a €200 penalty will also be fully refunded.
I have a third booking which I left intact and asked her to make a note in the system to see if Expedia can protect it or possibly reissue it on a different stock. That seems impossible as the fare no longer exists. In any case, they will monitor it and contact me in case anything happens. Surprisingly the Expedia travel plan for that booking can no longer be accessed online or by Expedia employees but she found it using the Amadeus PNR.
Totally different experience from last night, so if you get an OTA agent that sounds a bit clueless, I would hang up and call again. I am a bit more confident now that this will be sorted without having to resort to cash back scenarios.
A fun fact: the email from Expedia informing me of the route change told me to call a certain number which was open between 10:00 and 14:00. That number was for the Apollo Hotel in Amsterdam (I could book a room but she could not get me flights... we laughed!) and Expedia CS is in fact open between 09:00 and 21:00. It is a bit of a cock up on all sides.
Called Expedia (NL for those who asked per PM) again this morning. This time I talked to someone who knew what she was talking about. The first flight (the rerouted one) is indeed under control of the airline, but you have to deal with the OTA to get it sorted. They will now contact AZ to try and get the original routing reinstated. A good argument is that you searched for a multi-city on the OTA's website and not a oneway ticket to DUS. She assured me that in case AZ does not reinstate the original booking she will see what Expedia can do (probably nothing) but confirms that the tickets are fully refundable (minus the booking fee, but she will have a look at that too).
The booking I cancelled and for which they charged me a €200 penalty will also be fully refunded.
I have a third booking which I left intact and asked her to make a note in the system to see if Expedia can protect it or possibly reissue it on a different stock. That seems impossible as the fare no longer exists. In any case, they will monitor it and contact me in case anything happens. Surprisingly the Expedia travel plan for that booking can no longer be accessed online or by Expedia employees but she found it using the Amadeus PNR.
Totally different experience from last night, so if you get an OTA agent that sounds a bit clueless, I would hang up and call again. I am a bit more confident now that this will be sorted without having to resort to cash back scenarios.
A fun fact: the email from Expedia informing me of the route change told me to call a certain number which was open between 10:00 and 14:00. That number was for the Apollo Hotel in Amsterdam (I could book a room but she could not get me flights... we laughed!) and Expedia CS is in fact open between 09:00 and 21:00. It is a bit of a cock up on all sides.
Last edited by henkybaby; Dec 16, 2016 at 2:41 am
Dec 16, 2016, 2:44 am
#3040
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: AMS
Posts: 579
Sorry to differ but you might want to check facts before jumping to conclusions, especially when such conclusions could be very worrying to non-experienced members.
1. When a carrier wants to force certain things, taking control over the ticket is the most convenient way to do so. This might not always be compliant with certain IATA standards but it does happen. Much easier for AZ to force reroutings etc when they overrule the OTA.
2. They only cancel their own PNR's because that's far easier than to cancel other carrier's PNR's. I might be wrong but based on my own tickets it seems at least that only PNR's for AZ marketed flights are affected with the exception of the AZ marketed, EY operated segments. I assume that this is mainly due to the fact that they need some kind of cooperation from EY but I am not sure. Anyway, the modus operandi is to cancel AZ PNR and based on that cancellation exchange/reissue the ticket with a PNR (for an AZ FLR-DUS or vv). This exchange causes the invalidity of the original ticket that is still attached to the other PNR's (CX for instance). Result: the other PNR is orphaned due to the lack of a valid underlying eticket.
3. If the tix would be honored as booked, AZ will be the one paying the applicable fare for flights on other carriers, based on their mutual specific pricing agreements.
1. When a carrier wants to force certain things, taking control over the ticket is the most convenient way to do so. This might not always be compliant with certain IATA standards but it does happen. Much easier for AZ to force reroutings etc when they overrule the OTA.
2. They only cancel their own PNR's because that's far easier than to cancel other carrier's PNR's. I might be wrong but based on my own tickets it seems at least that only PNR's for AZ marketed flights are affected with the exception of the AZ marketed, EY operated segments. I assume that this is mainly due to the fact that they need some kind of cooperation from EY but I am not sure. Anyway, the modus operandi is to cancel AZ PNR and based on that cancellation exchange/reissue the ticket with a PNR (for an AZ FLR-DUS or vv). This exchange causes the invalidity of the original ticket that is still attached to the other PNR's (CX for instance). Result: the other PNR is orphaned due to the lack of a valid underlying eticket.
3. If the tix would be honored as booked, AZ will be the one paying the applicable fare for flights on other carriers, based on their mutual specific pricing agreements.
Dec 16, 2016, 2:46 am
#3041
Join Date: May 2013
Location: west coast best coast
Programs: TINDER GOLD, STARBUCKS GOLD, COSTCO EXECUTIVE!!
Posts: 3,987
While I do agree that prematurely blaming AZ without knowing technical internals feels a bit wrong, if I were a carrier involved in such a ticket, I definitely would have problems with the way AZ deals with the issue. I had a part of my ticket cancelled (only AZ flights), but none of KE,EY,NZ and CX flights were, and I can still open the itinerary on their web-sites without any indication of any problem with the ticket. That gives me a reasonable level of confidence that AZ indeed spoils their inventories, and if I were a revenue/inventory manager of those airlines I would try to screw AZ as much as possible for such dubious practices.
I hope Alitalia has a good explanation for the DOT when the complaints go in when they start canceling the fares touching the US.
Dec 16, 2016, 2:48 am
#3042
Join Date: Apr 2016
Programs: UA Mileage Plus Delta SkyMiles
Posts: 424
Machiavelli Fare Resolution numero tre....
Called Expedia (NL for those who asked per PM) again this morning. This time I talked to someone who knew what she was talking about. The first flight (the rerouted one) is indeed under control of the airline, but you have to deal with the OTA to get it sorted. They will now contact AZ to try and get the original routing reinstated. A good argument is that you searched for a multi-city on the OTA's website and not a oneway ticket to DUS. She assured me that in case AZ does not reinstate the original booking she will see what Expedia can do (probably nothing) but confirms that the tickets are fully refundable (minus the booking fee, but she will have a look at that too).
The booking I cancelled and for which they charged me a 200 penalty will also be fully refunded.
I have a third booking which I left intact and asked her to make a note in the system to see if Expedia can protect it or possibly reissue it on a different stock. That seems impossible as the fare no longer exists. In any case, they will monitor it and contact me in case anything happens. Surprisingly the Expedia travel plan for that booking can no longer be accessed online or by Expedia employees but she found it using the Amadeus PNR.
Totally different experience from last night, so if you get an OTA agent that sounds a bit clueless, I would hang up and call again. I am a bit more confident now that this will be sorted without having to resort to cash back scenarios.
A fun fact: the email from Expedia informing me of the route change told me to call a certain number which was open between 10:00 and 14:00. That number was for the Apollo Hotel in Amsterdam (I could book a room but she could not get me flights... we laughed!) and Expedia CS is in fact open between 09:00 and 21:00. It is a bit of a cock up on all sides.
Called Expedia (NL for those who asked per PM) again this morning. This time I talked to someone who knew what she was talking about. The first flight (the rerouted one) is indeed under control of the airline, but you have to deal with the OTA to get it sorted. They will now contact AZ to try and get the original routing reinstated. A good argument is that you searched for a multi-city on the OTA's website and not a oneway ticket to DUS. She assured me that in case AZ does not reinstate the original booking she will see what Expedia can do (probably nothing) but confirms that the tickets are fully refundable (minus the booking fee, but she will have a look at that too).
The booking I cancelled and for which they charged me a 200 penalty will also be fully refunded.
I have a third booking which I left intact and asked her to make a note in the system to see if Expedia can protect it or possibly reissue it on a different stock. That seems impossible as the fare no longer exists. In any case, they will monitor it and contact me in case anything happens. Surprisingly the Expedia travel plan for that booking can no longer be accessed online or by Expedia employees but she found it using the Amadeus PNR.
Totally different experience from last night, so if you get an OTA agent that sounds a bit clueless, I would hang up and call again. I am a bit more confident now that this will be sorted without having to resort to cash back scenarios.
A fun fact: the email from Expedia informing me of the route change told me to call a certain number which was open between 10:00 and 14:00. That number was for the Apollo Hotel in Amsterdam (I could book a room but she could not get me flights... we laughed!) and Expedia CS is in fact open between 09:00 and 21:00. It is a bit of a cock up on all sides.
Same question for ebookers -
And would be lovely to speak with the same competent person as HenkBaby...
Dec 16, 2016, 2:49 am
#3043
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Between AMS and BRU
Posts: 8,852
You are living in the past.... the DOT protection you value so much went out of the window with the UA error fares about a year ago. They couldn't care less about airlines honoring error fares.
Dec 16, 2016, 2:51 am
#3045
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,645
