Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Mileage Run Deals > Mileage Run Discussion
Reload this Page >

[PREM FARE GONE] AA: GIG/GRU- multiple locations (HKG/LAX/MIA/SFO ETC) ~$200 Y ~$360

Old Aug 31, 2015, 9:17 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: footastic
Sequence of events:

American Airlines (AA) Brazil website misprices revenue tickets in initial calculation on purchase page. Repricing the same reservation by changing billing country resulted in the correct price, even when reverting to Brazil.

Vast majority of tickets appear to have gone unticketed for ~1 week. It appears that tickets were issued manually, not automatically.

AA states repeatedly and to several outlets that they will unconditionally honor all fares.

AA begins cancelling tickets. Subsequently, they send out cancellation emails implying that the "country of residence" was misrepresented. Of course, this is not the case, as AA never actually asks for the "country of residence" but the billing address which includes the country of the billing address.

Since AA repeatedly and publicly stated that they would unconditionally honor the tickets, even when specifically asked about it, many purchasers relied upon AA's representations and made non-refundable plans. DoT regulations require airlines to reimburse purchasers who relied upon mistake fares to make non-refundable plans. It may be worth writing into the US Department of Transportation (DoT) to complain about AA's handling of the situation and ask for compensation even without having non-refundable reservations, because AA went to great lengths to assure purchasers that tickets would be unconditionally honored.

DoT air travel complaint form: http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/ConsumerForm.cfm

DoT air travel complaint mailing address:
Aviation Consumer Protection Division, C-75
U.S. Department of Transportation
1200 New Jersey Ave, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20590

DoT air travel complain phone line information:
You may call the ACPD 24 hours a day at 202-366-2220 (TTY 202-366-0511) to record your complaint. Calls are returned Monday through Friday, generally between 7:30 am and 5:00 pm Eastern time.

As mentioned by classyflyer and posted by pb9997, if your flight had some kind of legal nexus within Brazil, their consumer protections should apply to your ticket. Here is the contact information for the relevant consumer protection agencies within Brazil. Please be clear in your communication and REMEMBER TO SUBMIT YOUR COMMUNICATIONS IN PORTUGESE.

To translate your communications before submitting them:
http://translate.google.com

www.reclameaqui.com.br
Quote from pb9997: "This site is known to be the most popular, most viewed upon by companies who care about reputation; Though not official, it has proven to be the most respected by consumers and corporations, who may delay answers on their own channels but do take care to have teams focused on answering for this public site. Information written, from both parties, is public."

www.consumidor.gov.br
Quote again from pb9997: "This is the official PROCON site where consumers and companies present their complaints and arguments. It is official, additional care ought to be taken.

I would highly suggest following the order presented; With the first site the company has room to assess impact, prepare an amiable answer and protect their public reputation.

On the second site... well, it's official and what is written by both parties is the basis to act afterwards in a court of law. Ideally the complaint presented should have the Law that explains why a consumer has been impacted and the expected remedy, according [sic] to the Law."

As of 9/8/15 - Individuals who had tickets cancelled in the first round (8/28) have yet to see refunds post to credit cards.

Feel free to update this Wiki with more complete information.
Print Wikipost

[PREM FARE GONE] AA: GIG/GRU- multiple locations (HKG/LAX/MIA/SFO ETC) ~$200 Y ~$360

Old Aug 29, 2015, 8:40 pm
  #901  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: is everything...but...
Programs: dont matter anymore...
Posts: 3,019
All of mine are still intact (for now). I live in brazil with a Brazilian CC though..
flipside is offline  
Old Aug 29, 2015, 8:52 pm
  #902  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by flipside
All of mine are still intact (for now). I live in brazil with a Brazilian CC though..
looks like they only cancel non-brazil CC now. not sure how they figure it out, through address or CC number. if through address, I should enter one random Brasil address when making reservation and update my CC mailing address to that address.
delusion is offline  
Old Aug 29, 2015, 8:54 pm
  #903  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by josephstern
OK - so can we get some data points from those who have been canceled? It's probably inevitable that we'll all get hit here, but let's see what we've got:

-CC - Brazilian or not?
-Metal - all AA or partners?
-Brazilian airports - Does any of your itinerary touch Brazil?

Anything else relevant?
Mine cancelled ticket:

-CC - USA (chase ritz)
-Metal - outbound TAM, inbound AA
-Brazilian airports : yes, JFK-GIG RT
delusion is offline  
Old Aug 29, 2015, 9:06 pm
  #904  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ATL
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by josephstern
OK - so can we get some data points from those who have been canceled? It's probably inevitable that we'll all get hit here, but let's see what we've got:

-CC - Brazilian or not?
-Metal - all AA or partners?
-Brazilian airports - Does any of your itinerary touch Brazil?

Anything else relevant?
Might also be worth noting if your credit card set off fraud alerts or was declined, any previous interaction with AA Brazil, etc...


Also I saw your interaction on Twitter, curious what their DM said...
TravelingFitzMe is offline  
Old Aug 29, 2015, 9:21 pm
  #905  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,671
Originally Posted by delusion
looks like they only cancel non-brazil CC now. not sure how they figure it out, through address or CC number. if through address, I should enter one random Brasil address when making reservation and update my CC mailing address to that address.
Credit card BIN range perhaps.
percysmith is offline  
Old Aug 29, 2015, 9:24 pm
  #906  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 9,981
Originally Posted by TravelingFitzMe
Might also be worth noting if your credit card set off fraud alerts or was declined, any previous interaction with AA Brazil, etc...


Also I saw your interaction on Twitter, curious what their DM said...
They said:

Good evening, Joseph. If you booked your reservation online, you'll want to call our Web Technical Support at 800-222-2377 for assistance, of course if you're in the USA. Our numbers in Brazil are: 11-4502-4000 in Sao Paulo, 21-4502-5005 if you're in Rio de Janeiro or 0-300-789-7778 for other cities. They're prepared to handle any issues or questions about your reservation resulting from a technical problem on our Website. Thanks for tweeting us today!
josephstern is offline  
Old Aug 29, 2015, 9:25 pm
  #907  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 9,981
Originally Posted by percysmith
Credit card BIN range perhaps.
That, or there's an international indicator, at least when using a US merchant account for non-US cards. I assume Brazil has a similar indicator.
josephstern is offline  
Old Aug 29, 2015, 9:53 pm
  #908  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: GRU
Programs: *A Gold, OW Sapphire, SPG Gold, HH Diamond, Accor Plat
Posts: 3,367
Events in this story seem to go back and forth, and then back again...

From what I read, so far, I would daresay that AA Executives called for this decision based on AA Legal having brought the UA F glitch out of Denmark where customers that may have forced their way onto UA's website in Denmark were clearly forcing their way onto a glitch, aware of it thus aware of the mistake itself, beforehand. I recall something along these lines on UA's story to cancel all tickets/reservations, apparently approved by DOT.

Brazilians, on the other side, would be presented in BRL as this was the currency of their cards and the compulsory conversion to BRL had been done by AA's system, thus AA own responsability. BR consumer laws would also not let AA easily off the hook and case would go into courts brought by each passenger... a company's nightmare.

I also tend to believe that the bulk of tickets issued in Brazil has been in coach, which lowers AA's losses, though from a legal perspective is irrelevant. But, on the other side, these international cards, that made their way onto the BR glitch, chose the more elaborate, expensive routes and carriers, thus an executive decision on the losses had to be made. Limited number of customers involved yet the highest amount of losses for AA.

If the above stands correct and it has been said that the glitch included AA in Brazil, Chile and Mexico then all that bought pretending to have a local currency card to then be presented the incorrect conversion and lower costs, though they had not a local card, ought to have their reservations and tickets canceled. Brings to mind that in Chile costs amounted to mere cents, thus if aware, everyone would flock onto AA Chile much cheaper than AA BR.

And if my reasoning stands corrected, the only way to salvage any pending reservation is to have it paid in a local card, whatever the currency it has been booked in. For those already canceled I am unsure whether a local card if on any help at this stage.

PS -The initial digits of a credit card state the Bank that has issued it, thus the country where it has been issued. Believe this logic is valid for all cards. Easy to spot incorrect cards...

Last edited by pb9997; Aug 29, 2015 at 9:58 pm
pb9997 is offline  
Old Aug 29, 2015, 10:14 pm
  #909  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 9,981
Originally Posted by josephstern
OK - so can we get some data points from those who have been canceled? It's probably inevitable that we'll all get hit here, but let's see what we've got:

-CC - Brazilian or not?
-Metal - all AA or partners?
-Brazilian airports - Does any of your itinerary touch Brazil?

Anything else relevant?
So let's add interactions with AA and also class of travel:

-CC - Brazilian or not?
-Metal - all AA or partners?
-Brazilian airports - Does any of your itinerary touch Brazil?
-Class of travel - Coach or above
-Interaction with AA - did you call ever, or just let it ticket?
josephstern is offline  
Old Aug 29, 2015, 10:17 pm
  #910  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hyatt Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: QLA
Programs: SBUX Gold
Posts: 14,507
FYI Those who got cancelled on and can prove BR residency can get their tix reinstated...maybe. Everyone else...there will be no joy. I can share more details later.
IceTrojan is offline  
Old Aug 30, 2015, 5:20 am
  #911  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: IAH
Programs: SPG Platinum, Hyatt Diamond, IHG Gold Ambassador, Marriott Gold
Posts: 519
Originally Posted by IceTrojan
FYI Those who got cancelled on and can prove BR residency can get their tix reinstated...maybe. Everyone else...there will be no joy. I can share more details later.
Please, share more details

Both of my pending tickets are now cancelled

This includes a paid-for ticket which never got out of pending status (AA metal) and a second ticket which initially got held up by Amex's fraud alert & was never re-processed.
Rusdude is offline  
Old Aug 30, 2015, 7:09 am
  #912  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 319
Mine also cancelled ... Would have been fine if AA had initially said they wouldn't have honoured them, but they specifically announced they would honour for bookings made for all tickets from ALL locations. And they went through the long process to manually ticket all bookings made through this deal. I'm sure by now a lot of people have made nonrefundable hotels & positioning flights because of this.
Gabrca is offline  
Old Aug 30, 2015, 7:32 am
  #913  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
AA has now manipulated and abused the DOT's recent 'mistake' fare guidance. None of you should back down easily on this issue. DOT complaints should be failed and in some cases small claims court proceedings should be considered.

I don't believe the DOT guidance was meant to give airlines a 'free option' to cancel 'mistake' fares at any point in the future after having already deliberated and decided to honor and ticket them (and publicly announcing the fact!)

Otherwise, what's to stop airlines in the future from analyzing their ticketed fares and deciding to cancel certain tickets if the profitability 'yields' aren't high enough? This is a consumer nightmare waiting to happen.

Furthermore, selectively honoring certain mistake fares over others makes no sense from a DOT point of view imo - it's not justifiable in light of the initial (much deliberated) decision to actually honor and ticket them.

Last edited by statys; Aug 30, 2015 at 7:40 am Reason: more info
statys is offline  
Old Aug 30, 2015, 9:09 am
  #914  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
Originally Posted by gurbina93

This is unfortunately old information. The DOT suspended its own rule and replaced it with a temporary one. The temporary says, in a nutshell,:

Airlines can cancel mistake fares and not face enforcement. However, if consumer has bought non-refundable positioning flights or hotels etc, the airline has to reimburse the consumer for that. Obviously that only applies to PNRs with US segments

This has been in effect since May 2015.

As a matter of prosecutorial discretion, the Enforcement Office will not enforce the requirement of section 399.88 with regard to mistaken fares occurring on or after the date of this notice so long as the airline or seller of air transportation: (1) demonstrates that the fare was a mistaken fare4 ; and (2) reimburses all consumers who purchased a mistaken fare ticket for any reasonable, actual, and verifiable out-of-pocket expenses that were made in reliance upon the ticket purchase, in addition to refunding the purchase price of the ticket. These expenses include, but are not limited to, non-refundable hotel reservations, destination tour packages or activities, cancellation fees for non-refundable connecting air travel and visa or other international travel fees. The airline may ask the consumer requesting out-of-pocket expenses to provide evidence (i.e. receipts or proof of cancellations) of actual costs incurred by the consumer. In essence, the airline or seller of air transportation is required to make the consumer whole by restoring the consumer to the position he or she was in prior to the purchase of the mistaken fare. The enforcement policy outlined in this notice is temporary and will remain in effect only until the Department issues a final rule that specifically addresses mistaken fares.
Deltahater is offline  
Old Aug 30, 2015, 9:20 am
  #915  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by Deltahater
This is unfortunately old information. The DOT suspended its own rule and replaced it with a temporary one. The temporary says, in a nutshell,:

Airlines can cancel mistake fares and not face enforcement. However, if consumer has bought non-refundable positioning flights or hotels etc, the airline has to reimburse the consumer for that. Obviously that only applies to PNRs with US segments

This has been in effect since May 2015.

As a matter of prosecutorial discretion, the Enforcement Office will not enforce the requirement of section 399.88 with regard to mistaken fares occurring on or after the date of this notice so long as the airline or seller of air transportation: (1) demonstrates that the fare was a mistaken fare4 ; and (2) reimburses all consumers who purchased a mistaken fare ticket for any reasonable, actual, and verifiable out-of-pocket expenses that were made in reliance upon the ticket purchase, in addition to refunding the purchase price of the ticket. These expenses include, but are not limited to, non-refundable hotel reservations, destination tour packages or activities, cancellation fees for non-refundable connecting air travel and visa or other international travel fees. The airline may ask the consumer requesting out-of-pocket expenses to provide evidence (i.e. receipts or proof of cancellations) of actual costs incurred by the consumer. In essence, the airline or seller of air transportation is required to make the consumer whole by restoring the consumer to the position he or she was in prior to the purchase of the mistaken fare. The enforcement policy outlined in this notice is temporary and will remain in effect only until the Department issues a final rule that specifically addresses mistaken fares.
I don't think DOT's new guidance gives airlines the rights to retroactively cancel 'mistake' fares they decided to ticket.

Imagine the consequences of such a right - airlines arbitrarily canceling 'cheaper' tickets a week before flights in order to open up availability to high paying corporate flyers.

A disaster waiting to happen.
statys is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.