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Old Dec 16, 12, 10:49 am   #31
 
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Originally Posted by dvs7310 View Post
It's bad advice because you must be transiting to a "3rd country", not returning to the same country in which you originated.

Going LAX-PEK/PVG-HKG with no visa, no problem
Going LAX-PEK/PVG-LAX with no visa, and it's a no go
This has been my experience as well. Lots of information at Shanghai / PVG Transit Without Visa.
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Old Dec 16, 12, 10:50 am   #32
 
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Do you need a visa just to visit china?
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Old Dec 16, 12, 10:53 am   #33
 
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Originally Posted by n8onUA View Post
Are people paying the ~$150 visa for any same day turns to PVG?

Has anybody added an outbound stopover to NRT or HKG from PVG to avoid the visa?
Post #2271 mentions overnight stops in HKG and NRT, so you should be able to engineer something similar on your outbound. With NRT you could get NH or CA flights, HKG though you'll be stuck with KA.

I'm not nearly as comfortable as 110pgl pushing the issue on the 3rd country transit rule, but then again I usually posses a 1 year multiple entry visa for China anyway since I tend to go there on long weekends a few times a year. There are conflicting reports on that and certainly some FTers have been told they need a visa to turn around to the same country. You're at the mercy of the check in agent and/or supervisor, if they say no, then you're not going anywhere. Now once you get there, it won't be an issue anymore, I've never had the transit counter immigration in any Chinese airport ask where I came from... all they care is that I have an onward boarding pass out of China and then put the hexagon stamp in my passport.

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Originally Posted by dudleydog View Post
Do you need a visa just to visit china?
Only 3 countries are exempt for China visa for tourist visits up to 15 days: Japan, Singapore, and Brunei. All other countries need a visa for a regular visit. Many countries are exempt if in transit, that rule varies depending on your passport and which airport.
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Old Dec 17, 12, 4:08 am   #34
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Originally Posted by dvs7310 View Post
It's bad advice because you must be transiting to a "3rd country", not returning to the same country in which you originated.
+1. In fact, I would say that this advice crosses the line between bad and awful/deplorable. While it's possible to trick them or get lucky, the rules are VERY clear on this matter.
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Old Dec 17, 12, 4:46 am   #35
 
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
+1. In fact, I would say that this advice crosses the line between bad and awful/deplorable. While it's possible to trick them or get lucky, the rules are VERY clear on this matter.

The rules are very clear. This is allowed. No tricks. No getting lucky. The rules are VERY clear on this. (Just did this two weeks ago... AA.) My visa ended in April and I have been visa free since then, two MR in that time. (Both times agent just asked to see/check the return and I was good to go.)

That being said, you may run into people on the airline who are not knowledgeable and you may need to show them the appropriate rules which can be a hassle. (Even if you are respectful.) So if you are going to do this run more than once, you may want to opt for the visa to simplify your life.

deplorable? A bit over the top.
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Old Dec 17, 12, 5:32 am   #36
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Originally Posted by 110pgl View Post
The rules are very clear. This is allowed. No tricks. No getting lucky. The rules are VERY clear on this. (Just did this two weeks ago... AA.) My visa ended in April and I have been visa free since then, two MR in that time. (Both times agent just asked to see/check the return and I was good to go.)

That being said, you may run into people on the airline who are not knowledgeable and you may need to show them the appropriate rules which can be a hassle. (Even if you are respectful.) So if you are going to do this run more than once, you may want to opt for the visa to simplify your life.

deplorable? A bit over the top.
Insofar as PRC TWOV is concerned, passengers are only eligible if they are in TRANSIT from one country to another.

The reason I call "deplorable" is because anyone who takes your advice is likely to be denied boarding or turned back if they happen to make it to China. (If I worked for an airline, I'd bounce anyone who tried to board a straight up RT sans visa in a heartbeat.)

I have been on top of these TWOV threads on FT ever since the program was kicked off, and have become intimately familiar with the rules in the process... and, read many sob stories in the process.
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Old Dec 17, 12, 5:59 am   #37
 
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China just came out with a new law regarding this but it says you need to return to a different country:
http://travel.cnn.com/beijing-waives...4406?hpt=hp_t3
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Old Dec 17, 12, 5:59 am   #38
 
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
Insofar as PRC TWOV is concerned, passengers are only eligible if they are in TRANSIT from one country to another.

The reason I call "deplorable" is because anyone who takes your advice is likely to be denied boarding or turned back if they happen to make it to China. (If I worked for an airline, I'd bounce anyone who tried to board a straight up RT sans visa in a heartbeat.)

I have been on top of these TWOV threads on FT ever since the program was kicked off, and have become intimately familiar with the rules in the process... and, read many sob stories in the process.
Reading is one thing, doing is another.

While I respect everyone's opinion, FT is littered with many (too many) I heard, I read, my secret brother-in-law knows a guy...

Not sure why you would "bounce" someone who is not doing anything wrong. Would you bounce someone who was going to Germany without a visa? (It is not needed there.) How about Russia? They are very strict there on visa's there - more so than China, but, MR turns in DME are done all the time there without a visa. Why? Because it is allowed.

The visa is simply not needed, as long as you leave China within 24 hours. Period. No exceptions.

The vast majority of airline agents know the visa rules. The few that don't are always enlightened by a supervisor. (Especially when you treat them with respect.) Never a problem.

As for entry into China, a boarding pass within 24 hours and a valid passport have always been the only things needed. Never in dozens and dozens of trips has a Chinese immigration official ever asked to see the boarding pass of my inbound flight. It is irrelevant. All they want to know is how long you will stay.

But again, anyone who is worried should get a visa. Just as anyone worried about security lines should get to the airport super early. Not needed, but if it makes you feel better, do it.
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Old Dec 17, 12, 6:01 am   #39
 
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The cost of the Visa is a small price to pay for piece of mind.
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Old Dec 17, 12, 6:02 am   #40
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Originally Posted by 110pgl View Post
The visa is simply not needed, as long as you leave China within 24 hours. Period. No exceptions.
The rules CLEARLY state that you need to be en route to a THIRD COUNTRY. Failure to demonstrate such is grounds for denied boarding/entry.
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Old Dec 17, 12, 6:08 am   #41
 
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Originally Posted by smitty06 View Post
The cost of the Visa is a small price to pay for piece of mind.
I agree 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moondog View Post
The rules CLEARLY state that you need to be en route to a THIRD COUNTRY. Failure to demonstrate such is grounds for denied boarding/entry.
You reading this wrong. But, I do not think the facts will convince you. (Just because you write things like "Failure to demonstrate such is grounds for denied boarding/entry" does not make it true.)

In the end, get a visa if you are not comfortable. (Even for the new rules, a visa may make you sleep better.)

As stated above the price of a visa is a small price to pay for peace of mind.
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Old Dec 17, 12, 7:39 am   #42
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
The rules CLEARLY state that you need to be en route to a THIRD COUNTRY. Failure to demonstrate such is grounds for denied boarding/entry.
Correct , the rules state 3rd country.

Anyone who has a different opinion, please provide
links to support this unheard of assertion.
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Old Dec 17, 12, 8:01 am   #43
 
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Originally Posted by 110pgl View Post
With respect, you don't know what you are talking about.

I - and several others - have done it on mileage runs before to both PVG and PEK. (PVG is a favorite for mileage runs due to the less expensive premium fares.)

In this case, the 3rd country is the returning country. (When they create these transit rules, they don't think about us doing mileage runs.)

(Another example.... Russia - visa required, unless you are returning immediately.)

Moderator - please delete these posts (including this one) and lets get back to premium fares.
I am Chinese and I clearly remember that two years ago I read on a newspaper someone got fined on a US-PVG-US immediate return. Of course it's his stupidity to tell the immigration that he's doing US-PVG-US for miles without a visa since in practice most people doesn't care. But still, it's a YMMV situation.

EDIT: here is a link for the news: http://xwcb.eastday.com/c/20101201/u1a830803.html . It's in Chinese but google translate will do the work. It's a Canadian citizen, but I don't think US citizen works any better than Canadians.
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Old Dec 17, 12, 8:29 am   #44
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Originally Posted by zig2 View Post
I am Chinese and I clearly remember that two years ago I read on a newspaper someone got fined on a US-PVG-US immediate return. Of course it's his stupidity to tell the immigration that he's doing US-PVG-US for miles without a visa since in practice most people doesn't care. But still, it's a YMMV situation.

EDIT: here is a link for the news: http://xwcb.eastday.com/c/20101201/u1a830803.html . It's in Chinese but google translate will do the work. It's a Canadian citizen, but I don't think US citizen works any better than Canadians.
The passenger was able to get out of paying the fine as the airlines shared blame for allowing him to board. Then he fought the airlines to get miles for the ill fated journey.

Here's a relevant thread regarding denied entry to China.
HELP: Best Man for wedding denied entry to China (PRC)

Here's a case of a passenger who was entitled to travel through China on twov but was incorrectly denied boarding by the us carrier.



http://www.elliott.org/blog/is-this-...-china-anyway/

Last edited by anacapamalibu; Dec 17, 12 at 8:59 am.
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Old Dec 17, 12, 10:34 am   #45
 
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Just out of idle curiosity, would something like U.S. -> China -> Canada via the U.S. qualify as being en route to a third country?
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