I spoke with a Midwest rep yesterday, as one of my upcoming flights has been changed from an E190 to an A319. The rep explained that "as of right now" there will be no signature seating on the A319's. This made it sound like the A319's may eventually get signature seats (either that... or she didn't know).
She also mentioned that meals (and cookies) will still be served, and in-flight entertainment (live TV / movies) WILL be available for a charge once onboard.
I think there are a lot of things simply not yet decided.
As much as those of us who follow Midwest very closely are wondering if the Airbus this fall signals an end to Signature's enhanced coach seating once and for all, at the same time I'm hearing some Frontier groupies fretting about what it means that the E190 is coming to the Frontier system with a premium coach section. Will they charge more for it? Will people be able to select those seats ahead of time? Is Frontier's brand being harmed by the E190's not having inflight entertainment systems? What will the onboard service be? etc., etc.
So I think it's safe to say that the details are not all worked out. I have grown to like the idea of a premium section with an upcharge because it plays into the psychological buying decision of consumers. I hope Frontier adapts it. Charge $210 round trip when the competitors are charging $140 round trip and nobody will book you. Charge $140 round trip as everybody else does, but give customers the option of paying an extra $35 each way for a better seat, and you'll in essence sell a decent number of $210 round trip fares. As a customer I hate having to pay extra for seat assignment, or to check bags, or (hate to a lesser extent) for a premium seat. But it's a great idea from a revenue standpoint because customers have become so engrained with the idea of getting a boast-worthy low fare. They'll balk at paying more than $89 each way from Milwaukee to Florida, but they'll drop $20+ in the D concourse waiting for their flight without batting an eye on expensive snacks, coffee, magazines, a shrink-wrapped sandwich, soda, etc.
I'd like to see the best of both brands combined, no matter if both brands survive or if they are consolidated to a single brand. Time will tell what they do.
knope I have to tell you that the integration hasn't failed. Both unions (well AFA and ALPA are seeing it IBT's way) agreed to wait to start the integration after the F9 aquisition.
I'm very hopeful that this means Midwest crews will have an opportunity to keep flying if they choose. We know that, for those who do, their pay will be siginificantly less than what they receive today. But this has the potential of at least offering an option. Without it, everybody is laid off and the only way to get back in the air is to hope someone hires you and to start out at the bottom.
It remains to be seen, of course, just how integration will work out. How will Midwest and Frontier crew years of experience will be accommodated, and how employees already on furlough will be handled? Integration could go very badly for Midwest and Frontier crews, I suppose. Various rumors and reports have been floating around for weeks. But at least there's hope that this will be resolved in a way which doesn't simply put all Midwest pilots and inflight on the street.
Friend of mine has been a very outspoken critic of Midwest management. "I will never fly them again." "Screw them the way they have treaated their workers." etc...
He just booked a ticket on Midwest to Tampa. Why? Price.
Knope is right, no one cares who fly's or services the airplane. People in Milwaukee and Kansas City were willing to pay a little more to fly "Midwest." Frequent flyers are not willing to do that anymore. And all the recreational flyers who may have known the thousands of local freinds and family members who were replaced at "Midwest" will avoid them. This Republic experiment will not last, but we will remember the great little airline that was, not this cheap replacement. I have booked away from "Midwest" for months and I am not alone. Why would anyone fly on "Midwest" if they have a choice?
I am not sure that anyone has really known who flies and services any plane that they have flown on...I do remember the days (2001, pre-9/11) when it was special to get onto an all business class plane, but the industry changed and that leadership that built Midwest was unable to change the model and maintain the business and keep all of the great employees...Why isnt that realized? The same leadership that built Midwest is the one that took it to the point of almost being hostily taken over by Airtran.
Knope has outlined the reasons people book the flight they book...The reasons for me is schedule, route (I'll take the higher priced route if it is direct and at a time I want), frequent flyer program, then comes price...And for me "Midwest" is the best fit for someone that travels every week, but lives in Milwaukee...If I lived in Chicago, I'm pretty sure I would be on either United or American, but my criteria would be the same.
Programs: Delta Skymiles Gold Medallion, CO Onepass Silver Elite, Midwest Miles, Fairmont Premier
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Reasons for flying Midwest (or not)
I agree also with Knope's reasons people choose carriers and flights.
Since I tend to be a little more at the high-end of travellers (which I realize is the minority), my criteria are SkyTeam EQMs and convenience equally, quality of service, and lastly price, as long as price is not outrageous. Being MSN-based, I typically check options out of MSN on Nelta and MKE on Nelta and Midwest, then decide.
When Midwest was all of the above PLUS a customer-service experience head-and-shoulders above everyone else, I used to go out of my way to fly them, sacrificing some convenience if I had to. Now, since the service on Skywest, Chautauqua, Republic and the few actual Midwest Airlines flights left is generally still good, but not great, I include them in the mix but have no special allegiance to them. I guess I see no real reason to favor Midwest but no reason to avoid them, either.
Being DL Medallion, one aspect of price does stand out to me: baggage. If my partner and I are on a trip where we each need to check two bags, we're talking an extra $200 that we wouldn't have to pay on Nelta. That's no small chunk of change, considering the airfares often tend to be similar, particularly on the refundable fares we often buy.
Besides that, what may drive me away is if the Delta-Midwest FF and lounge access deal falls through (nothing seems clear with that yet). In that case I'd rarely fly Midwest and may even consider Airtran's business class. The all-coach 319s aren't something I'd go out of my way for either, though I find the 170s and 190s comfortable and desirable. I'd probably prefer the chance of an F upgrade on Nelta over the all-coach 319s, unless there were a dramatic convenience advantage. On the other hand, if a full reciprocal deal were struck with Delta that includes lounge access and baggage fee waiver for Delta Medallions (or even refundable fare buckets), I'd probably be driving to Milwaukee for the nonstops all the time.
I wrote a trip report on FT last night on Chautauqua-operated Midwest Connect flights I took last weekend, and the experience really helped me put together the above understanding about how I feel about Midwest. I wrote way too much; writing the trip report took longer than the flight.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueHorseShoe2000
Never say never, but I tend to agree with you on this one. Once things settle down, I do think we'll be seeing some sort of brand unification between Midwest and Frontier.
If Republic plays its cards right, they could take the best from both carriers and create an even better airline.
Of course, Republic may maintain the two seperate brands indefinately. However, the "Midwest" name will likely vanish at some point.
For whatever its worth, I was departing DEN on Monday evening and saw an airbus with a 'gray' tail (no animal) but still Frontier livery on the fuselage. I saw it at the Continental hangar, just as we were taking off, so it was a brief view. No idea if this is a new delivery, or possibly one that is being returned . I thought this might be a plan heading to Midwest, but of course, its just speculation. Midwest seems pretty quick to paint planes, but with a small fleet this is pretty easy...
Programs: United 1k, Midwest Miles, VX eleVAte, Hilton Diamond VIP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTA
For whatever its worth, I was departing DEN on Monday evening and saw an airbus with a 'gray' tail (no animal) but still Frontier livery on the fuselage. I saw it at the Continental hangar, just as we were taking off, so it was a brief view. No idea if this is a new delivery, or possibly one that is being returned . I thought this might be a plan heading to Midwest, but of course, its just speculation. Midwest seems pretty quick to paint planes, but with a small fleet this is pretty easy...
More than likely what you saw was an A318. Frontier is in the process of removing those aircraft from the fleet.
I believe that Frontier is not scheduled to receive any new Airbus aircraft until early next year.
__________________ If you don't know where you are going, you might end up someplace else.
Looks like the A319's that are going to be flying Midwest routes out of Milwaukee will have DirecTV access along with the signature cookies...I think this goes along with what most of us thought would happen when it was announced.
Looks like the A319's that are going to be flying Midwest routes out of Milwaukee will have DirecTV access along with the signature cookies...I think this goes along with what most of us thought would happen when it was announced.
One RT per day MKE-BOS, besides long haul routes, is scheduled for the A319.
Though the last 717 will soon be gone from the fleet, it is strange to see no carrier listed next to the aircraft type; all other aircraft note carriers.
During the flight search process, available seats are not shown for the A319, unlike for the 717, E170, E190, or even the CRJ or E135/145, where open seats are clearly visible.
One cannot view A319 seats until the actual booking process, when the seat selection window appears, along with seat maps.
It would be very helpful if the A319 seat map were displayed prior to actually holding or completing a reservation.
During the flight search process, available seats are not shown for the A319, unlike for the 717, E170, E190, or even the CRJ or E135/145, where open seats are clearly visible.
One cannot view A319 seats until the actual booking process, when the seat selection window appears, along with seat maps.
It would be very helpful if the A319 seat map were displayed prior to actually holding or completing a reservation.
I just discovered that A319 seatmaps for YX flights are visible during the search process on Orbitz; A319 seatmaps are still not available on the YX site, until completing/holding the booking and selecting seats.
I'm very hopeful that this means Midwest crews will have an opportunity to keep flying if they choose. We know that, for those who do, their pay will be siginificantly less than what they receive today. But this has the potential of at least offering an option. Without it, everybody is laid off and the only way to get back in the air is to hope someone hires you and to start out at the bottom.
It remains to be seen, of course, just how integration will work out. How will Midwest and Frontier crew years of experience will be accommodated, and how employees already on furlough will be handled? Integration could go very badly for Midwest and Frontier crews, I suppose. Various rumors and reports have been floating around for weeks. But at least there's hope that this will be resolved in a way which doesn't simply put all Midwest pilots and inflight on the street.
This can go two ways. I'm a RAH flight attendant. I'm on my 5th airline thanks to 4 furloughs, and I sure didn't keep MY seniority. The YX Flight attendants wanted their seniority to be their YX date of hire. Our Union said no way in hades are we going to make a company WE purchased have the most seniority out there. Remember - WE BOUGHT YOU.
Yeah I want a fair integration. Why? It could happen to me in the future. However, why should the work I'VE done to help make MY company $ to buy YX end up screwing me over by having MY seniority go down?
YX and RAH merged. There are different obligations between buyouts and mergers.
Quote:
However, why should the work I'VE done to help make MY company $ to buy YX end up screwing me over by having MY seniority go down?
As an airline, Republic is a name not recognized by the flying public. Your company makes money using the identity of the airlines you're contracted to fly for. Now, your company wants to use the brand identity YX flight crews built... In this merger, why should you benefit more than the YX crews? You bring airplanes to the table, they bring the brand identity and customer loyalty. Seems the two groups can't succeed as Midwest without the other...
Fence the YX crews to flying Midwest-painted airplanes. Problem solved. If it wasn't for your company taking their lines with the E70s, you wouldn't have that flying in the first place.
YX and RAH merged. There are different obligations between buyouts and mergers.
As an airline, Republic is a name not recognized by the flying public. Your company makes money using the identity of the airlines you're contracted to fly for. Now, your company wants to use the brand identity YX flight crews built... In this merger, why should you benefit more than the YX crews? You bring airplanes to the table, they bring the brand identity and customer loyalty. Seems the two groups can't succeed as Midwest without the other...
Fence the YX crews to flying Midwest-painted airplanes. Problem solved. If it wasn't for your company taking their lines with the E70s, you wouldn't have that flying in the first place.
