helosc

This question is about return rail tickets (paper).

Can anyone tell me if it is permissable to make an extra stop on the way from A to B and then resume the journey a little later.

As an example :
A return journey from Tel Aviv to Akko.
I want to stop in Haifa for a few hours on the way out or back.
Can I do this on a return ticket Tel aviv to Akko,
or do I have to buy a single ticket from Tel Aviv to Akko + a single ticket from Akko to Haifa + a single ticket from Haifa to Tel Aviv?

I just cannot find this information on the israeli rail site (the English version).
Thank you.

joshwex90

With a ticket from Tel Aviv to Akko, you will be allowed to exit the station in Haifa but you will not be allowed back in to the station.
You have 2 options in this case:
1. Do it anyways and when you get back, go to the manned gate (as opposed to the automatic gates) and tell them you "made a mistake" and meant to get off in Akko, and you realized that this is the wrong station (and I guess it wouldn't hurt to pull the "I'm a tourist and don't speak Hebrew" card, especially since announcements are only made in English on the airport lines).
2. Buy separate tickets as you suggested.

Just so you're aware, after December 1, you will no longer be able to purchase tickets on the train (except for one-way tickets) without a Rav-Kav. So if you're travel is after Dec 1, you anyways can't benefit from a r/t ticket unless you have a Rav-Kav.

helosc

Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

So it will be separate tickets for me then.
And obviously single tickets at that as I don't want to bother with the Rav Kav card - my plans are flexible and I have several places I might or might not go to.

joshwex90

Obviously, buying a ticket Tel Aviv to Akko will be cheaper than buying Tel Aviv to Haifa + Haifa to Akko. Though you can still try the "workaround" and see if it works.

Regarding Rav-Kav, you can get a Rav-Kav if you are interested as it will give you the ability of buying r/t tickets (which are cheaper) and will give you the ability of getting other discounts on public transportation throughout Israel. There are stands at all Tel Aviv train stations, open 07:00-18:00, and you only need a passport. (It's free to get one.)

You can even order one online and deliver it to an address where you will be.

helosc

No, I wasn't after cheating.
In some places it is possible and legal to stop off on the way as long as you keep going in the right direction ( From Copenhagen to Malmö, Sweden I do this every time ).

I have looked at the Rav-Kav card and knows that it can be used all over Israel. It just seemed that there was some limitations to it that made me dismiss it as too much bother - you can only put specific tickets or group of tickets on it, not just cash and you need to put different tickets for different companies etc. I'll be using the Rail system, Egged, Dan, Jerusalem Light rail and whatever bus companies that run in Jerusalem.

But I can see that it would be beneficial at least for the rail trips (I didn't know that they were stopping return paper tickets) so I'll have a rethink about it.
Thank you again.....

joshwex90

The Rav-Kav leaves TONS to be desired. (I'm part of a group that is lobbying the government to radically overhaul public transportation in Israel and including in that is a significant change to Rav-Kav.) Not arguing at all about limitation and potential frustrations.

Right now, Rav-Kav basically acts as an electronic wallet version of paper tickets - it doesn't combine anything - just keeps multiple tickets on one card.

You can do rail tickets (fill them up at kiosks at all train stations and pay with cash/credit card) as well as all the other companies you mentioned.

Within the Tel Aviv metropolitan area (Gush Dan), you can put money on to use across all companies (Dan, Egged, Kavim). This is beneficial as once you pay with a Rav-Kav, you get unlimited transfers for 90 minutes, but with paper, you pay for every single bus you use. Also helpful if you'll be taking the #1 bus (Dan, between Petah Tikva and Bat Yam) as you no longer interact with the driver on that bus. Also, when you load money, you get "bonus" money, effectively making it cheaper than cash per ride.

For Jerusalem, it's Egged (bus) and CityPass (light rail). Again, the benefit here is transfers and the cheaper cost, as one ride is NIS 6.90, but NIS 55.20 buys 10 trips.

Depending on where you come from to Jerusalem, there are different companies. But if Tel Aviv, Rav-Kav allows r/t tickets which paper doesn't. Can use on either 405 (New Central Bus Station, Tel Aviv) or 480 (Arlozorov, Tel Aviv).

No problem - lemme know if you have any other questions!

helosc

Thank you again.
Yes the possibility to use the ticket for 90 minutes instead of just a single bus ride is very useful.
I just got a bit irritated reading about the Rav Kav, so I dismissed the idea completely - if you make an electronic card why not make it possible to simply load cash on it and then be able to use it as you wish across all transport companies...
The Copenhagen area has an electronic card which is also causing trouble so I have avoided it until now but soon they'll stop selling the discounted 10 ticket cards and then I will have to use it.
When I am on holiday in Europe, I am mostly used to the transport systems being fully integrated and I usually buy a 1,3,5 or 7 day ticket which makes travel so easy.
In Luxembourg they even have a day ticket which covers the whole country (4€), but then again it is a very small country..
And thank you for the tip about the 480 bus from Arlozorov. I didn't even check this, just assumed I would have to go to the new central bus station. But Arlozorov is much closer to my hotel.

joshwex90

Ya, Rav-Kav is a great idea with a terrible implementation. But hopefully things will start changing. I find it ridiculous that most bus stops don't even have kiosks to fill it up, so when you get on the bus, if you don't have enough money, you need to load money with the driver. It's actually slower than the paper days. But it is "greener" and hopefully we'll succeed eventually in changing the system.

Though honestly, I'm looking for the time when we have NFC credit cards (or Apple Pay or Google Wallet) replace Rav-Kav. But considering Israel doesn't seem to care one bit for EMV, that seems far off

That being said, if you're only doing Tel Aviv - Jerusalem, then ya, you have the 405 or 480. Not only is the 480 more convenient (for you), it's faster than the 405 because it doesn't do any intermediate stops.

helosc

I am doing one week in Tel Aviv and one week in Jerusalem.
Luckily in Tel Aviv I am not too far from the rail station Savidor/bus terminal Arlozorov.
In Jerusalem I am not quite as close to the CBS but with the help of the journey planner mentioned further down, I have managed to figure which busses to get to CBS.
I will be doing day trips from these two places.
I have now finally finished checking exactly which public transport I'll need for going to different places, the possible timings and prices.
As a help to future readers, I'll post a few links.

Link to Israel Railways which also has a journey planner :
http://www.rail.co.il/EN/Pages/Homepage.aspx

Link to a journey planner for busses in Israel (cross-companies) :
http://www.bus.co.il/otobusim/Front2...en&Design=2007

Jerusalem Light Rail :
http://www.citypass.co.il/english/

joshwex90

For the record, I recommend using Google Maps to determine the fastest way of getting somewhere and then Moovit (smartphone app) to find out when the next bus is coming.

Which hotel are you staying at in Jerusalem?

helosc

No hotel in Jerusalem, an apartment in Kiryat Shmuel.
The location is good for busses, many different lines very close by.
In Tel aviv, the Hilton.

joshwex90

Ya, you should be fine getting to the apartment with buses from Jerusalem CBS.

BTW, I believe you can get an anonymous Rav-Kav from bus drivers for 5 shek if you don't want to wait in line for a free personalized one.

helosc

Yes, you can and that is the Rav-Kav I'll get. Don't want the trouble with the lines, passport etc.

For any future readers : on the anonymous Rav-Kav you cannot get any discounts ( youth, elderly etc ) and you cannot load monthly passes etc, but for tourists it is fine.

Also for future readers ( as joshwex90 and I between us have now done a bit of research :
Decided on the Rav-Kav because of the integrated ticket system in the busses in Tel Aviv (same ticket for all bus companies) + the integrated ticket system in Egged busses and Light Rail in Jerusalem and because these tickets are valid for 90 minutes and allow you to change busses/lightrail during that time frame.
It also allows you to buy return tickets on the Israeli Rail.

Paper tickets can only be bought one way, can only be used for one trip (no changes) and no integrated ticket system.

This sums up the Rav-Kav, I think.

awayIgo

One correction to the above, even with a Rav Kav that has your name, you can not get certain discounts ie. senior citizen unless you are an Israeli citizen!

joshwex90

Correct. Though with a Rav-Kav (personal or anonymous) you get all the automatic built-in discounts (top-up discounts, r/t tickets, transfer tickets, etc.)

With a personal (citizen or foreigner) Rav-Kav, you can get the student discount (33% or 50%).

Only an Israeli citizen though can get the discounts for: youth, elderly, disabled