Apr 17, 2013, 9:37 am
Last edit by: JDiver
Please edit or add information to this wiki as necessary.
Mexican automobile insurance is a legal requirement whilst driving in México; your US, Canadian or home auto insurance will generally not serve this purpose, and your credit card coverage will likely not provide the full coverage and liability protection you need driving in México.
In México, the law is based on Napoleonic Code; there is no presumption of innocence, and drivers may be jailed until "things are sorted out" - your insurance company is your bailor. If you are thinking of driving (or renting a car) in México, please take the time to read this thread. If you have had experiences to add or updates to offer, please do so.[/COLOR]
Mexican automobile insurance is a legal requirement whilst driving in México; your US, Canadian or home auto insurance will generally not serve this purpose, and your credit card coverage will likely not provide the full coverage and liability protection you need driving in México.
In México, the law is based on Napoleonic Code; there is no presumption of innocence, and drivers may be jailed until "things are sorted out" - your insurance company is your bailor. If you are thinking of driving (or renting a car) in México, please take the time to read this thread. If you have had experiences to add or updates to offer, please do so.[/COLOR]
Mexico auto insurance - "tu seguro", your insurance primer
Jan 2, 2015, 8:11 am
#17
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1
Vida why write anything if you are not going to share in the end !
Personal Liability insurance is included in rental contracts in Mexico. However the liability limits are low. If you want a decent Liability coverage you will need to add SLE (TPL for Thrifty) at a daily cost of around 18 to 27 US $.
I have been driving in Mexico for years, in the Yucatan peninsula all around the coast and inland, and also in Mexico DF and around to Tlaxcala, Queretaro, Estado de Mexico. Never had a problem. So my advice is :
- If you don't speak the language be safe and don't drive at night alone. Daytime make sure you know about the neighborhoods you will drive to.
- If you speak Spanish make sure you know about the neighborhoods you will drive to.
The vast majority of Mexican people are good people. Be as careful as you would be in New York for example with the extra attention because you are a foreigner.
Personal Liability insurance is included in rental contracts in Mexico. However the liability limits are low. If you want a decent Liability coverage you will need to add SLE (TPL for Thrifty) at a daily cost of around 18 to 27 US $.
I have been driving in Mexico for years, in the Yucatan peninsula all around the coast and inland, and also in Mexico DF and around to Tlaxcala, Queretaro, Estado de Mexico. Never had a problem. So my advice is :
- If you don't speak the language be safe and don't drive at night alone. Daytime make sure you know about the neighborhoods you will drive to.
- If you speak Spanish make sure you know about the neighborhoods you will drive to.
The vast majority of Mexican people are good people. Be as careful as you would be in New York for example with the extra attention because you are a foreigner.
Jan 2, 2015, 10:30 am
#18
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Basic liability is included, but IMO, just as in other countries, the basic liability isn't likely to be sufficient in a genuine jam.
As a foreigner in Mexico, hit a mule and be prepared for claims, backed by locals, you just offed Francisco, the talking (in three languages!) mula, which replaced the poor weather forecasting; the chicken layed golden eggs every fortnight; that mangy street dog saved the family children from a jaguar. Their cousin the local cop will stand by the "allegators", you will be fed to the alligators. You get the idea.
In a country with laws based on Napoleonic Code, you are not presumed innocent, your rights are few and certainly do not include legal representation. Your consulate can do little but visit you on rare occasion, inform your family and wag their heads side to side with an empathetic "tch, tch" and at some jails make arrangements for you to be fed.
Your insurance company is your bail or, your guarantor. Yes, it will cost you more, but spending extended time in la carcel is well worth avoiding.
Lest you think I exaggerate, I saw one American retired General and businessman and 49% owner get "Article 33d*" out of the country on the basis of allegations of his partner. That meant he was notified he had been declared "persona non grata" and had 24 hours to liquidate his positions (including home ownership), and get himself, his family and all the possessions he could take with him out of Mexico. No appeal possible, no adversary representation, just load your boot / trunk and your family and leave.
*Article 33 of the Mexican Constitution.
As a foreigner in Mexico, hit a mule and be prepared for claims, backed by locals, you just offed Francisco, the talking (in three languages!) mula, which replaced the poor weather forecasting; the chicken layed golden eggs every fortnight; that mangy street dog saved the family children from a jaguar. Their cousin the local cop will stand by the "allegators", you will be fed to the alligators. You get the idea.
In a country with laws based on Napoleonic Code, you are not presumed innocent, your rights are few and certainly do not include legal representation. Your consulate can do little but visit you on rare occasion, inform your family and wag their heads side to side with an empathetic "tch, tch" and at some jails make arrangements for you to be fed.
Your insurance company is your bail or, your guarantor. Yes, it will cost you more, but spending extended time in la carcel is well worth avoiding.
Lest you think I exaggerate, I saw one American retired General and businessman and 49% owner get "Article 33d*" out of the country on the basis of allegations of his partner. That meant he was notified he had been declared "persona non grata" and had 24 hours to liquidate his positions (including home ownership), and get himself, his family and all the possessions he could take with him out of Mexico. No appeal possible, no adversary representation, just load your boot / trunk and your family and leave.
*Article 33 of the Mexican Constitution.
Last edited by JDiver; Jan 2, 2015 at 10:41 am
Jan 29, 2015, 7:17 pm
#20
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NJ, USA
Programs: AA EXP, Marriot Silver, Hertz #1Gold
Posts: 80
This is despite the T&C saying that rentals include liability coverage up to 100,000 MXN and that coverage of anything is OPTIONAL.
Are we being scammed? (that being said, I think SLE in Mexico is a good idea, but I don't like being lied to).
Jan 29, 2015, 8:25 pm
#21
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Quintana Roo state currently seems to require about $45,000 USD:
A single fatality can incur $22,723 criminal court, $22,723 civil court = $45,446 total
At MXN 13 to USD $1.00, that's under half a million pesos.
That being said, Mexican courts have increased the maximums for death to 5,000 days calculated at the minimum wage.
And rental car company policies can require anything they want.
Ask to see the documented requirement, and yes, be aware many companies will lowball and not disclose much on their sites. Who's going to hold them accountable? Probably nobody.
A single fatality can incur $22,723 criminal court, $22,723 civil court = $45,446 total
At MXN 13 to USD $1.00, that's under half a million pesos.
That being said, Mexican courts have increased the maximums for death to 5,000 days calculated at the minimum wage.
And rental car company policies can require anything they want.
Ask to see the documented requirement, and yes, be aware many companies will lowball and not disclose much on their sites. Who's going to hold them accountable? Probably nobody.
Jan 30, 2015, 10:54 am
#22
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
Posts: 2,505
No, you are not being scammed. Keep in mind that 4,000,000 pesos is only about $300,000us @ the recent average exchange rate of 13/1). So $300k liability coverage is an "adequate" amount. Keep reading to see why it easily might not be nearly enough.
The financial liability for a single human* fatality in mexico is 5,000 days x minimum wage of the state in which the death occurred plus funeral expenses. This total can then be increased up to 5 times depending upon the rules of the state. The total varies radically from state to state (low of about $45,000 with the highest approx $540,000).
See this chart which appears to be up-to-date: http://www.mexadventure.com/mexicani...fm#death_chart
These are the liabilities per fatality. So, if you took out a bus or a pickup with 8 workers in the back, start multiplying.
But these are only the criminal and civil penalties imposed by the government.
You will still have your legal bills, possibly (probably?) the legal bills of the estate of the person(s) you killed, property damage, loss of use/income for the rental vehicle you crashed, your travel expenses, oh, and yours and anyone else's medical expenses.
$300,000 (or $4,000,000 pesos) really is only adequate. Especially if they think you are a rich gringo tourist.....
* keep in mind JDivers explanation that the 90-year old three-legged burro you killed was able to talk and was about to go before the UN Assembly to provide the answer to life, the universe, and everything. Thats gonna cost a fair amount, too.
The financial liability for a single human* fatality in mexico is 5,000 days x minimum wage of the state in which the death occurred plus funeral expenses. This total can then be increased up to 5 times depending upon the rules of the state. The total varies radically from state to state (low of about $45,000 with the highest approx $540,000).
See this chart which appears to be up-to-date: http://www.mexadventure.com/mexicani...fm#death_chart
These are the liabilities per fatality. So, if you took out a bus or a pickup with 8 workers in the back, start multiplying.
But these are only the criminal and civil penalties imposed by the government.
You will still have your legal bills, possibly (probably?) the legal bills of the estate of the person(s) you killed, property damage, loss of use/income for the rental vehicle you crashed, your travel expenses, oh, and yours and anyone else's medical expenses.
$300,000 (or $4,000,000 pesos) really is only adequate. Especially if they think you are a rich gringo tourist.....
* keep in mind JDivers explanation that the 90-year old three-legged burro you killed was able to talk and was about to go before the UN Assembly to provide the answer to life, the universe, and everything. Thats gonna cost a fair amount, too.
Aug 31, 2015, 6:34 pm
#23
Join Date: Nov 2011
Programs: AA
Posts: 377
Sorry to bump an old thread, but do such policies - and by that I mean the SLE or $4M (or more) comprehensive liability policies, preclude situations of jail time as in the case a few years ago in which the minister sat in jail until things were sorted out?
My understanding was that if a settlement for injury can't be reached between the insured and the injured and his/her family, the insurance would certainly step in -- but not until a hearing could be scheduled, in which case the insured would be held in jail, as happened in the case above.
Not to overthink this whole thing, but I'm just wanting to get the best insurance I can and relegate even the thought of jail to the back of my mind.
My understanding was that if a settlement for injury can't be reached between the insured and the injured and his/her family, the insurance would certainly step in -- but not until a hearing could be scheduled, in which case the insured would be held in jail, as happened in the case above.
Not to overthink this whole thing, but I'm just wanting to get the best insurance I can and relegate even the thought of jail to the back of my mind.
Sep 1, 2015, 7:50 am
#24
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Sorry to bump an old thread, but do such policies - and by that I mean the SLE or $4M (or more) comprehensive liability policies, preclude situations of jail time as in the case a few years ago in which the minister sat in jail until things were sorted out?
My understanding was that if a settlement for injury can't be reached between the insured and the injured and his/her family, the insurance would certainly step in -- but not until a hearing could be scheduled, in which case the insured would be held in jail, as happened in the case above.
Not to overthink this whole thing, but I'm just wanting to get the best insurance I can and relegate even the thought of jail to the back of my mind.
My understanding was that if a settlement for injury can't be reached between the insured and the injured and his/her family, the insurance would certainly step in -- but not until a hearing could be scheduled, in which case the insured would be held in jail, as happened in the case above.
Not to overthink this whole thing, but I'm just wanting to get the best insurance I can and relegate even the thought of jail to the back of my mind.
People try to ignore or gloss over Mexico's laws are both very different from the U.S. (Napoleonic Code vs. English Common Law) and that in reality the applicability of the law can be uneven, arbitrary and even capricious.
A reputable insurance company is your bail or in most instances; where injury is caused, it becomes much trickier, and the law does require restitution for lost wages, etc. But a tourist is generally handicapped by language, lack of adequate representation and both a lack of access to cash and the knowledge about where to apply it.
If there's a death involved, it's worse. The law requires 5,000 days of lost wages be covered (that's nearly 14 years of the lowest minimum wage or the lowest professional wage). Once all the bureaucratic, financial and legal obligations are satisfied, including a prison sentence in cases of criminal conduct (driving under the influence of alcohol, drugs of any kind or whether OTC or prescribed) one is free to go.
(Not to mention the person you cause injury can find sudden promotion in life from someone who habitually spent time avoiding work and sponging from his family into a young person of great promise who had just been poised to embark on the professional job of a lifetime. Unfortunately, you do not have the knowledge, investigator not credibility to refute any of it.)
Much of this is in the OP.
Renting a car in Mexico is easy, but IMO one should think the entire thing through and if one proceeds, be twice or thrice as cautious about driving as in the USA or Canada, say, because driving conditions and the legal environment are very, very different.
Last edited by JDiver; Sep 1, 2015 at 8:13 am
Oct 1, 2015, 2:14 pm
#25
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: So CA
Posts: 10
Hello everyone, Same thing happened to me. I was told by Dollar in Cancun that SLI is obligatory (4 million pesos). Charged 17$ + IVA /day. Wouldn't let me rent without it.
This is despite the T&C saying that rentals include liability coverage up to 100,000 MXN and that coverage of anything is OPTIONAL.
Are we being scammed? (that being said, I think SLE in Mexico is a good idea, but I don't like being lied to).
This is despite the T&C saying that rentals include liability coverage up to 100,000 MXN and that coverage of anything is OPTIONAL.
Are we being scammed? (that being said, I think SLE in Mexico is a good idea, but I don't like being lied to).
While I am not certain what the Mexico legal minimum insurance is, that has nothing to do with the car rental company's "right" to conduct business legally yet unethically.
Just because the rental company follows the law, which says the rental company must provide some basic form of liability insurance, which they do, there is nothing to prevent them from saying the Supplemental liability policies are "Optional" and yet require you to buy them anyway.
HOW IS THIS LEGAL? Because in order for you to have the option to pay supplemental liability, you must prove you are either insured in another manner OR provide an extremely large security deposit to the rental company.
WHAT IS THE CATCH? The FIRST catch is that most or all the car rental companies do not "accept" 3rd party liability policies as evidence of insurance. That includes valid Mexico insurers. Even if their Terms and Conditions don't mention this, they will tell you of this policy at the counter. The SECOND catch is that the large security deposit is $20,000 on smaller cars and as of today, one policy requires $40,000 for larger cars and mini vans, and maybe more for luxury/specialty. THAT'S USD, not MX Pesos. Since most tourists don't have credit limits that high, it's unlikely they have any option but to pay for the "optional" liability or travel without a rental car.
The same can be true for the collision/damage insurance. The MX car rental companies are beginning to refuse to recognize coverage provided by credit card companies simply because you show them your credit card. They are requiring "proof" you have the coverage. And they might even refuse to recognize the "proof" since it's from a 3rd party, although so far everything I've read says they will not accept 3rd party liability insurance ... I believe though, it's only a matter of time before they also say they won't accept 3rd party collision insurance.
Having said that, this doesn't mean the 3rd party insurance is invalid. It doesn't matter what the rental companies accept or not, what matters is what happens if you need to use the insurance. Any valid 3rd party insurance will work correctly, more or less (meaning you might not anticipate shortcomings in your policy). The question is how do you successfully opt out of the "optional" insurance required by the rental company?
What I recommend:
- For your first time at any location in MX, with any car rental company you haven't been to in 2 months or less, contact a valid 3rd party insurer and start the paperwork BUT DONT BUY YET.
- If you are relying on your credit card company for CDW, print the policy out. Better yet, while I don't see quite how the AMEX CDW insurance plan is any better than the basic coverage on any credit card for CDW, AMEX offers a fee based CDW policy of about $16 to $25 per rental period, up to 30 days (some vehicle exclusions apply, but similar to the basic credit card coverage). They give you a policy and the policy works and you are charged automatically when you use the subject credit card for your rental.
- Assuming you win the battle with the rental company because you have a credit card with a credit limit high enough to accommodate the $20,000 or $40,000 USD security deposit for liability, immediately call the 3rd party insurer to pay and begin the liability policy. I recommend this because if you buy the policy before hand, then are forced to buy the "optional" liability coverage, the 3rd party ins co will not give you a refund.
What if all that fails?
- This might not help, but I recommend making reservations with more than one car rental company where you don't need to pay anything up front. Try making 3 reservations. Walk out of the first one and see if they let you go. Maybe make a bit of an effort to change their minds, but don't waste too much of your time. Go to the second one and try again. Here's where you will need to be committed. If it's the same, maybe you have to bite the bullet and just eat the extra money. Or you might take one more shot to walk out and go to your final place and make at least a small effort before paying for everything.
- I'm planning on also knowing where the public transportations is. After all, depending on where and how your trip will be, public transportation, even with some taxi fees, could cost a lot less than renting the car with all the required add-ons
- Last but not least, if you are going to a resort where you might spend 1/3 to 1/2 your days not leaving the resort, or using tours to explore, NOT RENTING AT THE AIRPORT could give you a lot of "car money" to spend on the transfer from airport to resort and back, plus 1-3 single day car rentals directly from or near the resort. Just a thought ...
Jun 6, 2016, 4:58 pm
#26
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: whatever comes with CCs
Posts: 1,082
I found another thread recommended renting from http://bbbrentacar.com/ to avoid the games. It woudl be great if peopel chime in with their experiences
Jun 6, 2016, 5:29 pm
#27
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YVR
Posts: 1,465
Here is my experience renting for the first time in Cancun. I saw lots of incredible rates like $1 per day on expedia etc, but figured it all came with hidden expensive insurance. I booked a prepaid rental with Sixt, which was about $30 per day, and I also prepaid $10 per day for SLI. At pickup, I expected a hard sale on extra insurance, but it was a mild soft sale, which I declined. However, they said they required a deposit of about $2,000 on the credit card (in pesos, do not remember the exact amount) because I did not buy their CDW. My credit card approved the deposit, so I was able to rent fine. They even gave me an upgrade as Sixt Platinum. The car was pretty beat up though, with a LOT of scratches and dents. No attempt to "find" and charge for any extra damage on the return, so that was another thing I worried about but turned out fine. All in all, OK experience.
Jan 6, 2018, 12:09 pm
#28
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Seattle, Wa
Programs: AS 75K & BR Member- HHonors Diamond - Hertz PC - Marriott Titanium - IHG Ambassador
Posts: 2,379
Renting from Hertz at Loreto. Which specific insurances do I need for complete coverage? CDW & Theft ? Looks like it will add about $45 a day
Feb 4, 2018, 12:43 am
#29
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: Northwest, United
Posts: 3,256
Boy, this sure is enough to make one's head spin. And it only gets more complicated with all the players involved...
I've currently got a price quote for a rental that I requested through Autoslash. Their quote is provided by Priceline. It's for a Hertz rental.
Of course, the price quoted is ridiculously low - they're supposedly going to rent me a Prius for US$4.79 per day - oh, sure. Yeah, so that doesn't include the insurance I'm going to need. It may include some minimal liability insurance required by law, but I wouldn't rely on that even if they would let me, and I'm sure they won't. So I have no idea what they're going to charge for real liability insurance at a level I'm comfortable with (minimum US$300K, US$500K sounds better). Then there's the Collision insurance, which I will pay for. The quote I received from AutoSlash, which is really a PriceLine quote, for a Hertz rental, offers Collision coverage up to US$50,000. Cost for this CDW is listed as US$11 per day, with zero deductible, which seems inexpensive (too inexpensive, I was expecting $20-30/day) so I'm wary. It's stated as Primary coverage, including "comprehensive" items (theft, vandalism, etc., 24-hour hotline for assistance, and more). This coverage is provided through "Allianz" - so yet one more player in the mix. Oy.
The $11/day CDW sounds OK. The deceptively low-ball "base price" for the rental obviously sounds good (too good to be true). The missing piece is the liability insurance at a level that provides enough heft to actually be worthwhile (the get-outta-el-carcel card). Even having made some effort to inform myself (having studied all the posts here, crawled over Mexico Mike's website and even engaged his advice via email, browsed to his recommended insurance company sites, etc., etc.). After all that, I still have no idea how to determine what the cost is going to be.
Going straight to Hertz and attempting to setup the same rental, their fees for all the insurance offered via their website adds up to $60/day (and that doesn't even include zero-deductible CDW).
I could call Hertz, but I have a feeling they will shrug and say just to ask the agency on arrival, or quote the prices above (~$100/day). I can't imagine Autoslash or Priceline is going to have a clue, even if I could reach a human at any of them and that human wanted to help. It seems you can't know what you're going to get into until you're there, and the mystery is revealed, at which point you are not in a position to shop around.
Am I missing something here, or do you just have to cast your fate to the winds and hope for the best? Show up, roll the dice, and find out how much they will demand for the secret items?
I've currently got a price quote for a rental that I requested through Autoslash. Their quote is provided by Priceline. It's for a Hertz rental.
Of course, the price quoted is ridiculously low - they're supposedly going to rent me a Prius for US$4.79 per day - oh, sure. Yeah, so that doesn't include the insurance I'm going to need. It may include some minimal liability insurance required by law, but I wouldn't rely on that even if they would let me, and I'm sure they won't. So I have no idea what they're going to charge for real liability insurance at a level I'm comfortable with (minimum US$300K, US$500K sounds better). Then there's the Collision insurance, which I will pay for. The quote I received from AutoSlash, which is really a PriceLine quote, for a Hertz rental, offers Collision coverage up to US$50,000. Cost for this CDW is listed as US$11 per day, with zero deductible, which seems inexpensive (too inexpensive, I was expecting $20-30/day) so I'm wary. It's stated as Primary coverage, including "comprehensive" items (theft, vandalism, etc., 24-hour hotline for assistance, and more). This coverage is provided through "Allianz" - so yet one more player in the mix. Oy.
The $11/day CDW sounds OK. The deceptively low-ball "base price" for the rental obviously sounds good (too good to be true). The missing piece is the liability insurance at a level that provides enough heft to actually be worthwhile (the get-outta-el-carcel card). Even having made some effort to inform myself (having studied all the posts here, crawled over Mexico Mike's website and even engaged his advice via email, browsed to his recommended insurance company sites, etc., etc.). After all that, I still have no idea how to determine what the cost is going to be.
Going straight to Hertz and attempting to setup the same rental, their fees for all the insurance offered via their website adds up to $60/day (and that doesn't even include zero-deductible CDW).
I could call Hertz, but I have a feeling they will shrug and say just to ask the agency on arrival, or quote the prices above (~$100/day). I can't imagine Autoslash or Priceline is going to have a clue, even if I could reach a human at any of them and that human wanted to help. It seems you can't know what you're going to get into until you're there, and the mystery is revealed, at which point you are not in a position to shop around.
Am I missing something here, or do you just have to cast your fate to the winds and hope for the best? Show up, roll the dice, and find out how much they will demand for the secret items?
Feb 6, 2018, 11:50 pm
#30
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Maybe you can ask Autoslash; that’s one option. Online form here, or “Need help or have a question? You can reach us by filling out the form below! You can also email us directly at support <at> autoslash.com.”