newfbc

If you smoke in your non-smoking room, there's justification.. for the cleaning charge.

Ron.

waltinsocal

Where did that come from...a HOLD is NEVER put on a card preauthorizing a "smoking charge". Many properties I stay at have had me initial somewhere on my checkin that I understand the no-smoking policy, and that I will be billed $250 in addition to my room charge if I smoke. For the record, I don't smoke, and on the one occasion that I checked in and smelled smoke, I immediately went back to the front desk, had someone come to my room, make a note in the computer, and move me to another room. By your logic (?), every person who checks in to a Marriott property should have an additional $250 hold authorized to cover "potential" cigarette smoke. Are you kidding?

SkiAdcock

Huh? I've NEVER had a hotel say we're putting a $200 additional hold on your cc 'just in case' you smoke in a non-smoking room. I'm not a smoker, but still. We're talking holds that properties put on cc's for incidentals, not hypothetical cleaning charges. And as waltinsocal, there's always his cc on file for any after the fact legit charges.

Let's keep this on topic, which is - is there a consistent incidental hold policy - and so far the answer is no, it varies by property, and even then doesn't always make sense ($250 additional hold on $100 room rate).

Cheers.

rahmanbar

This discussion should be a heads-up to Marriott International as well as the CC companies (Chase Visa MR Cards in particular).

In the case of the latter, overdoing the amounts of incidental holds and making them unnecessarily lengthy impedes the CC's business.

If a card has reached its linmit by virtue of an incidental hold that is either not cleared in a reasonable time or is too high not only is the customer put at a disadvantage, but so is the credit card company.

As far as MI (and the other major hospitality companies), one of these days it's inevitable that some unhappy guest is going to file a complaint with a state AG's Consumer Affairs office regarding the whole incidental hold practice - overages: holds that are far in excess of reasonable duration and probably most damning, that are not disclosed prior to confirmation so as to preclude the customer's right not to purchase. (After all, all online reservation applications malready permit "opting out" prior to commitment.

Oviously this doesn't address the issue in cases of non-domestic properties but it would likely reverberate through the hospitality industry to the industry's discomfort.

Having said that, I still believe that the issues discussed in this thread can be resolved amicably while stilll protecting MI's interests as wll as those of its frequent guests.

Sharon is right -- this issue should be escalated to the responsible parties in Marriott's upper echelon who will commit to responding (whatever the nature of it may be),within a reasonable time.

(I leave to others the determination of what they believe are the parameters of what is "a reasonable time.")

joshua362

Just add some smoke to the fire, I wrote about a Courtyard a few months ago that routinely accepted cash at check-in for the room rate knowing that guest who did that were doing so to get around the smoke recovery fee!!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showp...00&postcount=5

cyberdad

I've never encountered the "we're-afraid-this-guy-might-smoke" hold (I'm a non-smoker). But I've certainly run into instances where the (daily) hold is different every time I check in to the very same hotel. The all-time kicker was the $900 hold at a $115 Courtyard! (That one appears to have been an honest mistake)

I'm certainly sympathetic to the concept that hotels have every right to protect themselves. But with all due respect, I'm not buying the story about a formula being implemented with no human involvement. Perhaps that's theoretically how things are supposed to work, but IME, I've seen absolutely zero evidence that this is actually the case.

bigguyinpasadena

Totally agree.I think the hotel should be allowed a small hold per night.
Release of the funds should be NO later than 48 hours after checkin.
I am sure there is some verbiage in the check in agreement we sign that places resposibility for damages to the property in the signers hands=no reason for anything stronger.
I do not know if a hold produces a float for the charge.If so I can see why a property(or hotel chain)would do this-I would not like or agree with this policy,but I would see why they would do it.
If it does not produce profit for the company(again a shady way to make a buck-but we all know Marriott is a greedy company-that goes back to it's foundation)then it is sheer laziness and shows disrespect for their customers.

Marriott Concierge

Many of you have commented about the amount of time it takes for a hold to be released from you credit cards. Ideally, and generally, after the card is charged at check out the settlement reaches the finical institution in 24 to 48 hours. At that time the settlement should post and replace the hold made previously on your card. However, after posting the settlement it is up to the financial institution to release the hold on their end. Marriott Process all charges and holds the same way; however, different finical institutions mean that the timeliness of the release is not the same for each guest.

Many of you have also suggested making the amount of the hold available when the reservation is booked. First, I would like to say that this is an excellent suggestion. However, I am not sure how easily this could be done. I will make sure your suggestions and the content of this thread is forwarded to those who can further evaluate this process.
The flyertalk community is very important to Marriott in large way because of this type of feed back we receive from you.

Ira

VA1379

Holds are authorized amounts that are not transferred to the vendor who has placed them. The merchant does not get any money until the transaction is closed out. When I rent from Hertz, the minimum hold is usually around $250-280 even though my total car rental might be only about $50 and the maximum they can charge for an empty gas tank is about $80 (per the new policy of charging a flat fee of $7 plus the gas needed to refill the tank). Hertz places a bigger hold to cover potential damage charges and late return fees.

Gas stations, car rental companies, and hotels put the most holds for amounts over actual purchase amounts on credit/debit cards. It becomes an issue if your credit limit is relatively low, you have multiple holds on one card, and/or the financial institutions take longer than usual to release holds (either due to the slowness of the merchants or the financial institution).

Honestly, I have not noticed the holds from hotel stays, because I have not stayed overseas at properties with holds exceeding $1,000. My credit limit on my Marriott Visa is large enough that a delay for a few holds of $200-300 each will not affect me.


Now that I think about it, the hold that the Fairfax Marriott at Fair Oaks might not vary by the number of days for the say. However, I am almost certain that the hold is a higher amount for debit cards, mainly because a debit card is attached to a bank account (which a guest could empty in advance if he wants to stiff the hotel). The hotel wants to make sure it gets paid for incidental spending, and there is greater risk if a guest checks in only with a debit card versus a credit card (since a hotel can charge a credit card after checkout for any legitimate charges). They can do this with a debit card, but it is easier to run into difficulties if there is no money in the debit account to cover the additional charges.

socrates

Because local charges do vary, ie a dinner in Time Square in the formal restaurant is certainly going to cost at least $100/person however a dining experience at the Columbus, OH Marriott is certainly going to cost significantly less....this is just one example - add in resorts and it certainly becomes unmanageable to set a universal SOP

socrates

Unless things have changed since my retirement the full service PMS system doesn't have a way for manual entries to be made however it does sound as though CY PMS (ie Select Service/Extended Stay FOSSE) does have a way - sorry I'm not as familar with that system

socrates

Holds vary by your issuing bank (not marriott's) - it can/will different from the holds guaranteed by Marriott's bank, same is true for credits - some banks are very quick to apply them while others sit on them for a bit

NDDomer86

Actually there is an unorthodox way to reduce the hold amount in the FS PMS system that I recently learned of. When checking you in, if a credit is issued to your account BEFORE the clerk checks you in and runs your credit card, then it will reduce your hold by that amount of money. This really only works with cash or bonus bucks coupons and as I said, is quite unorthodox.

SkiAdcock

Socrates I can count on 5 fingers the # of times I've stayed at Select Service properties (1-CY, 1-FI, 2-RI- 1-SHS in 20+ years of travel). I - and OTHERS - have told you point blank that there are manual inputs on full service properties. WE HAVE ENCOUNTERED THEM. Perhaps from now on I should start doing screen shots???? As should some of the others who have posted their experiences as well?

What you (realize you're not w/ them anymore, so nothing personal) - and other Marriott folk - are failing to realize is that:

their (us, not necessarily U.S.) customers are SICK & TIRED of different incidental holds being put on our credit cards & we're not being informed in advance the amount & are being told by you & MarriottConceriege (who hasn't come back on this thread, btw) that it's by some arbitrary system which also varies by property, which means that:

as rahmanbar pointed out, if it is abritrary there should be an automatic amount applied that could easily be shown on the reservation, just as room+tax is. in other words, full disclosure. but because the current policy is 'by property' & nothing is noted to the customers, they're (we're) left hanging in the wind.

i may not be happy w/ a huge incidental (and as i & others have shown w/ our personal real-life experiences sometimes it is huge, but if i know about it i can plan for it). to not do 'full disclosure' - and let's be honest - that's what this is, is a total disservice to Marriott customers & in my opinion - unethical (btw - i would say this of other hotel chains as well; I'm not just dissing on Marriott). i'm not even adding in rahmanbar's comments on the disservice it does to the c.c. co, which i hadn't thought of but which makes sense.

and secondly, based on experience - it's not some automatic system.

Re: the holds by dif banks - I may or may not agree w/ that. While I was willing to give some credence to the cc hold timeline, I'm a bit surprised that I have dif credit cards (ie, dif banks) & yet the hold (especially int'ly) will still be the same. While I might believe that banks are in collusion I'd be a bit surprised if they all match. That would probably violate a few laws. But I'll (for now) give the benefit of the doubt.

But thanks for reminding me. I will call my credit card issuer on Monday & ask them what their policy is, and if it's them or the property. And I will report back.

And bulldogg, while I get the unorthodox way of potentially getting around these 'onorous' & yes I'm starting to think they are actually onorous based on some of the amounts posted here, I do NOT think customers should have to prepay their credit cards to open up credit so that when Marriott puts an over the top incidental hold (and this entire thread is about incidentals, not the regular room+tax) in addition to room/night, they're ok.

Cheers.

SkiAdcock

BTW - I'm waiting for a reasonable time late next week for MarriottConcierge to get back to us after reading our additional input, or I will contact folk at HQ & after another reasonable timeframe if I don't hear back, the news outlets (the latter being a general interest story of all hotel chains policies, not just focussing on Marriott).

For myself I'm w/ rahmanbar in that I think we can all sort this out w/ Marriott in a manner that meets both their needs & their customers - ie, us. I'm not into the I'm mad as he*l and not going to take it anymore, but I AM getting cranky on the inconsistent 'incidental' hold policy.

I like Marriott - a lot - and I don't consider myself an apologist for them. I think overall they've treated me well. As have I them as a customer. But I also think I have an obligation as a customer to point out when there is a problem with their system, and they have an obligation as a vendor to take that input & hopefully improve upon the system.

Not related to this thread but due to a client wanting a projected approx expense report I pulled out my AMS Marriott folios for '06 & '07. Remember, AMS Marriott puts a hold of 75E/night on stays. At the property it has Pizza Hut (I kid you not), a Characters (ala, Cheers) bar, & 1 full-service restaurant. It's AMS for goodness sake. Most people DON'T stay in the hotel to eat.

So hold of 600Euros. My total incidental expenditures in '06 - 85Euros; my total incidental expenditures in '07 148Euros (used paid internet more). So 14% & 24% of hold used but had to give up an extra 86% & 76% of available credit to fit an 'arbitrary' amount the hotel determined. Now that I think about it I'm actually going to fight the 75Euro/night hold when I check in this time, and bring the previous 2 years folios with me. For a dif reason I also have '05 tax records out, so I might look at that stay as well & bring it w/ me too. If they want to do a small hold on check-in & then up it if I go over, I have no problem w/ that. But I'm going to fight tooth & nail this year the additional hold when I have multiple years' proof that I've never done very much over 8 days, and if what socrates said was true that they adjust daily based on what you do vs hold, they can add an additional hold.

Cheers.