Why aren't more people upset with this 3 for 1 points exchange with SPG??
Sep 28, 2016, 3:28 pm
#31
Join Date: May 2013
Location: YYZ/YTZ/YUL
Programs: BA Gold, TK Elite
Posts: 1,558
I will. Obviously I am not converting my points but just wanted to vent my frustration on the subject. It just boggles my mind that the few people on here that have commented have defended the 3 for 1. I guess my Westin or W example doesn't change their opinions at all. I feel it is a compelling argument.
Why do you "feel" that your reference frame is so much superior to craigtheif's?
Sep 28, 2016, 3:46 pm
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Starwood Platinum
Posts: 373
And yet you didn't respond at all to the following justification for 3:1, or even a higher ratio:
You give one, very limited reference frame: two hotels in San Francisco. The craigthemif has given a more general one, namely how quickly you earn points in each program.
Why do you "feel" that your reference frame is so much superior to craigtheif's?
You give one, very limited reference frame: two hotels in San Francisco. The craigthemif has given a more general one, namely how quickly you earn points in each program.
Why do you "feel" that your reference frame is so much superior to craigtheif's?
Sep 28, 2016, 4:16 pm
#33
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: YVR to SEA
Posts: 2,533
Your examples only apply for category 6 and 7 SPG because the award chart scales up exponentially, and that there is seasonality in SPG's program. Pick different dates and cat 6 costs 20k (which is still more than cat 9 Marriott)
Categories 1 to 5 on SPG's chart match up quite well with cat 1 to 7 on Marriott's chart at 3:1 ratio
Earn rates at hotels actually favor a 4:1 ratio so a 2:1 like you want is untenable
Categories 1 to 5 on SPG's chart match up quite well with cat 1 to 7 on Marriott's chart at 3:1 ratio
Earn rates at hotels actually favor a 4:1 ratio so a 2:1 like you want is untenable
Sep 28, 2016, 4:27 pm
#34
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LHR
Programs: Accor PLT,Thai Silver, HH Dia, SPG Titanium (LT Gold), Aegean Gold, BA Silver
Posts: 5,116
Mike what is the problem? Before the merger you could only chose Marriott but now you have SPG as an "option. In both programmes there are some sweet spots. Work towards these to make your points go further. look at Cash+Point as well. I am sure you will find something that ticks all the boxes.
http://thepointsguy.com/2015/05/9-lo...wesome-awards/
http://thepointsguy.com/2015/05/9-lo...wesome-awards/
Sep 28, 2016, 5:23 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,932
I only listed the Westin in SF but the W is the same, 25,000 points. But I also mentioned that there are other major cities where the same thing occurs. Plus for me, I only use my points for free nights redemption, not airline miles so this hits me close to home. If you want to disagree with me fine but I don't think it is at all fair that if I have 135,000 points that only gets me 1 night at a Westin or W in select cities. Sure I'll have points left over but still - totally unfair.
3:1 is a compromise between 2:1 (which some analysis shows more correct) and 5:1 (which other analysis shows more correct).
It's an unavoidable problem that the Marriott and SPG programs worked so differently that there is no one obvious transfer ratio that would please anywhere close to everyone.
Some people look at big city hotels, some look at smaller city hotels, some people look at Marriott vs Westin, other people look at Four Points vs Courtyard (because they all they care about is a room, any room), some people look at airline transfer instead of hotels, some people look at earning rates more than redemption rates, some people look at lifetime points significance rather than redemption significance, etc, etc, etc.
Many months ago, I had been arguing that maybe it should be 2.5:1 (aka 5:2) MR:SPG, but Marriott apparently wanted a whole number to 1 ratio.
So no matter what the conversion rate would have been, someone would have started up a thread like this, except for each ratio it would have been a different someone.
Sep 28, 2016, 5:32 pm
#36
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northern California
Programs: I want to be free! Free!
Posts: 3,454
As numerous others have pointed out the desires of each individual will influence whether this is fair.
Putting aside trying to triangulate all the math, I can say that I went back to about a dozen awards I have booked between MR and SPG and found that in all but one situation the arbitrage was so small that it wasn't worth bothering, and the arbitrage on the one situation I acted upon was worth maybe 5-10k MR points savings.
I think 2:1 would have outraged SPG members (me included). I think 4:1 would've been a windfall. 3:1 is pretty good and revealed preference has these pretty close.
Putting aside trying to triangulate all the math, I can say that I went back to about a dozen awards I have booked between MR and SPG and found that in all but one situation the arbitrage was so small that it wasn't worth bothering, and the arbitrage on the one situation I acted upon was worth maybe 5-10k MR points savings.
I think 2:1 would have outraged SPG members (me included). I think 4:1 would've been a windfall. 3:1 is pretty good and revealed preference has these pretty close.
Sep 28, 2016, 5:35 pm
#37
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 117
The problem is that any conversion rate would be unfair to someone.
3:1 is a compromise between 2:1 (which some analysis shows more correct) and 5:1 (which other analysis shows more correct).
It's an unavoidable problem that the Marriott and SPG programs worked so differently that there is no one obvious transfer ratio that would please anywhere close to everyone.
Some people look at big city hotels, some look at smaller city hotels, some people look at Marriott vs Westin, other people look at Four Points vs Courtyard (because they all they care about is a room, any room), some people look at airline transfer instead of hotels, some people look at earning rates more than redemption rates, some people look at lifetime points significance rather than redemption significance, etc, etc, etc.
Many months ago, I had been arguing that maybe it should be 2.5:1 (aka 5:2) MR:SPG, but Marriott apparently wanted a whole number to 1 ratio.
So no matter what the conversion rate would have been, someone would have started up a thread like this, except for each ratio it would have been a different someone.
3:1 is a compromise between 2:1 (which some analysis shows more correct) and 5:1 (which other analysis shows more correct).
It's an unavoidable problem that the Marriott and SPG programs worked so differently that there is no one obvious transfer ratio that would please anywhere close to everyone.
Some people look at big city hotels, some look at smaller city hotels, some people look at Marriott vs Westin, other people look at Four Points vs Courtyard (because they all they care about is a room, any room), some people look at airline transfer instead of hotels, some people look at earning rates more than redemption rates, some people look at lifetime points significance rather than redemption significance, etc, etc, etc.
Many months ago, I had been arguing that maybe it should be 2.5:1 (aka 5:2) MR:SPG, but Marriott apparently wanted a whole number to 1 ratio.
So no matter what the conversion rate would have been, someone would have started up a thread like this, except for each ratio it would have been a different someone.
I didn't see where you originally wrote 2.5 to 1 but I thought the same thing, 3 to 1 seems lopsided to me and I have bunch of points on both programs. Of course the spg loyalists figure anything less than 10 to 1 is a travesty.
Sep 28, 2016, 5:55 pm
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Starwood Platinum
Posts: 373
Just understanding that a Westin can only get me 1 night with a whopping 140,000 MR points tells my gut that the ratio isn't fair to Marriott people but whatever.
Last edited by mikebor; Sep 28, 2016 at 6:38 pm
Sep 28, 2016, 6:37 pm
#39
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: YVR to SEA
Posts: 2,533
You keep repeating that ad nauseam but my first random check of the Westin San Fran union square two weeks from now shows it's going for 20k per night due to seasonal pricing. Which means 145k Marriott would get you two nights with 25k points to spare
Get used to it, I'm certain the combined program will be a devaluation of epic proportions with seasonality pricing and higher redemption tiers
Get used to it, I'm certain the combined program will be a devaluation of epic proportions with seasonality pricing and higher redemption tiers
Sep 28, 2016, 6:45 pm
#40
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,037
Ummm... you do realize that just because you "feel" your own argument is compelling, doesn't in fact make it compelling to the world, writ large, right? 
Second, as mentioned, you do of course have the option to continue spending your valuable Marriott currency at Marriott hotels, just as you have been able to do, for quite some time yet so why don't you do that rather than "venting" which in the end accomplishes exactly zip, nada, nothing...
Regard
Second, as mentioned, you do of course have the option to continue spending your valuable Marriott currency at Marriott hotels, just as you have been able to do, for quite some time yet so why don't you do that rather than "venting" which in the end accomplishes exactly zip, nada, nothing...
Regard
Sep 28, 2016, 6:59 pm
#41
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Charleston, SC, USA
Programs: Avis Pref+, Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Life Gold, Honors Silver, IHG Plat via MC.
Posts: 6,786
No MR member will ever be forced by either program to convert TO Starwood. If they find the exchange rate poor, they are free to say 'No, Thanks!' and keep their MR points! However, in a year or so Starwood will cease to exist & all existing Starwood points will be forcibly converted to Marriott. So a lower multiplier would rip Starwood members off.
My vote is that 3:1 is just right. Indeed, it will be more fair than ever if top-end Starwoods are worked into the existing Marriott categories, or at worst, Starwood 7s into Ritz tiers. Goodbye to the insanity of 35K Starwood points per night!
My vote is that 3:1 is just right. Indeed, it will be more fair than ever if top-end Starwoods are worked into the existing Marriott categories, or at worst, Starwood 7s into Ritz tiers. Goodbye to the insanity of 35K Starwood points per night!
Sep 28, 2016, 6:59 pm
#42
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,037
Absolutely anytime, I enjoy it.
For the record though, you disagree with which assertion I've made exactly:
a) That you can continue to use your Marriott currency in the same way you previously have and thus avoid this thing which irks you if you choose to do so
or
b) That "ventiing" on a largely anonymous internet forum, to people that it appears generally don't agree with you, accomplishes nothing of substance
Regards
For the record though, you disagree with which assertion I've made exactly:
a) That you can continue to use your Marriott currency in the same way you previously have and thus avoid this thing which irks you if you choose to do so
or
b) That "ventiing" on a largely anonymous internet forum, to people that it appears generally don't agree with you, accomplishes nothing of substance
Regards
Sep 28, 2016, 11:56 pm
#43
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MIA
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 493
There are holes in both programs on conversion... this is a good thing!!! Now you know that for SF use Marriott. There are other cities/tiers where you get better value converting.
Sep 29, 2016, 1:21 am
#44
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Starwood Platinum
Posts: 373
Spot on and very true. Some cities the value is much fairer but I love SF so that annoys me lol. NY and Chicago are other places where at times the points for a regular Westin or W are way too high in my opinion. Oh well.
Sep 29, 2016, 5:30 am
#45
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: United 1K, MR Plat, SPG Plat
Posts: 804
When the new combined Marriott Rewards/SPG Program is announced next year with all of its, "enhancements," points conversion will be the least of our worries! 
Regards,
RIP..
Regards,
RIP..