Where do Marriott Brands Match Up w/ SPG Brands
#16
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Marriott and Sheraton are positioned similarly, although Marriott offers better brand consistency.
It gets more complicated with Renaissance, JW Marriott, Westin, W, and Le Méridien. Hotels within these brands range from traditional full-service to luxury, with varying doses of contemporary "lifestyle" characteristics. Direct one-to-one correlation between Marriott and Starwood brands in this full-service "upper-upscale" field would be open for debate.
Autograph Collection and Tribute Portfolio seem to be positioned similarly (but I've never stayed at a Tribute Portfolio property).
I disagree about hotel age being such a significant factor.
It gets more complicated with Renaissance, JW Marriott, Westin, W, and Le Méridien. Hotels within these brands range from traditional full-service to luxury, with varying doses of contemporary "lifestyle" characteristics. Direct one-to-one correlation between Marriott and Starwood brands in this full-service "upper-upscale" field would be open for debate.
Autograph Collection and Tribute Portfolio seem to be positioned similarly (but I've never stayed at a Tribute Portfolio property).
I disagree about hotel age being such a significant factor.
Yep, it's the upper-upscale to luxury levels I'm most concerned with. I've been searching Marriott.com for some of my upcoming destinations in the next year or two and found a number that do not have a SPG upper-upscale/luxury but do have a JW/Renaissance/Autograph/Marriott.
(There's a much larger number of RC than St. Regis but I find St. Regis to be way too stuffy for me...(I imagine RC is the same.)
Thanks everyone for your input.
#17
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Yep, it's the upper-upscale to luxury levels I'm most concerned with. I've been searching Marriott.com for some of my upcoming destinations in the next year or two and found a number that do not have a SPG upper-upscale/luxury but do have a JW/Renaissance/Autograph/Marriott.
Marriott clearly imposes higher standards on JW Marriott properties that on regular Marriotts in all areas. Some JWs (especially some of the resorts) have been upgraded from regular Marriotts, but most are new-builds.
Renaissance has been in search of an identity ever since Marriott International acquired Renaissance Hotels (many of which were previously Stouffer hotels) in 1997. The brand lacked the standardization of Marriott Hotels. The brand grew under Marriott ownership -- often in locations where there was already a Marriott Hotel nearby -- with conversions and new-builds. For years, it simply seemed to be Marriott's "other" full-service brand. These days, with hotel renovations, Marriott International is trying to position Renaissance as a "lifestyle" brand, somewhat more upscale than than regular Marriott hotels, with more emphasis on style and individuality. Whether a partictular Renaissance hotel is more like a Westin, W, Le Méridien, or Sheraton depends on the particular property.
Autograph Collection proves that high standards don't have to mean standardization. The hotels have their own distinct names, identities, and histories. But the quality standards are high. The hotels range from tiny boutique hotels to mega-resorts. The styles range from historical to cutting edge hip.
Marriott, the "signature" brand, is known for standardization. The hotels are usually good and dependable, but their standardization can make them boring. Recently renovated properties are becoming more stylish. Marriott brand standards seem require more frequent and thorough renovations than Hilton or Sheraton. Some Marriotts are outstanding. Others not so much.
Last edited by Horace; Jan 17, 2016 at 9:42 pm
#18
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The 110 year old Battle House Renaissance Hotel in Mobile is one of the nicest hotels in the US. So much for anyone who thinks age is a factor. It's nicer than most JW and Ritz properties and has better service, too. Given there is another outstanding Ren on the next block, I have long expected this property to be rebadged as an Autograph or Edition hotel.
#20
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As a Starwood/SPG diehard and an admirer of Marriott brands, here is my take and opinion on this well-discussed matter [which, frankly, has me worried due to my affinity for some Starwood brands].
Here is where I think all brands currently stand across both companies:
Bold = Marriott, Italic = SPG
LUXURY
Ritz-Carlton, Bulgari, St. Regis
LIFESTYLE
Edition, W, Design Hotels
UPPER-UPSCALE
JW Marriott, Renaissance, AC Hotels, Westin, Le Méridien
UPSCALE/SIGNATURE
Marriott, Delta, Gaylord, Protea, Sheraton
MIDSCALE
Courtyard, Moxy, Four Points, Aloft
EXTENDED-STAY
Marriott Executive Apartments, Marriott Vacation Club, Residence Inn, Fairfield Inn, Springhill Suites, Towneplace Suites, Element
INDEPENDENT/COLLECTIONS
Autograph Collection, Luxury Collection, Tribute Portfolio
Here's what I'd like to see happen:
- It goes without saying that 30 brands makes for a MONSTER of a company. Many of these brands are strong, recognized names and I believe that Marriott needs to be very smart and judicious when deciding which brands to keep, which to kill off and which to fold into other brands
- It's an established fact Marriott will be keeping all eleven Starwood brands for now... but there will inevitably be some cuts here and there as there are obvious overlaps
- That being said, Marriott's own brands should ideally NOT be impervious to chopping/realignment if the company wants to truly strengthen its own offerings as Starwood brings quite a bit of strength to the table
On that note, this is a map of what I think the new company should look like based on the categories I outlined above:
LUXURY
- Ritz-Carlton, Bulgari and St. Regis all stay as individual brands
LIFESTYLE
- Edition stays
- W stays; this brand alone must have been a particularly juicy morsel for Marriott to go after
- The agreement with Design Hotels should stand as Starwood is a dominating shareholder and it gives Marriott an excellent platform into the lifestyle/design-led sector
UPPER-UPSCALE
- JW Marriott and Westin stay
- Kill Renaissance and let Le Méridien live/take its place; LM has a stronger brand identity, more recognized name internationally and just seems to be the better brand between the two. Current Renaissances could be converted into Marriotts or LMs as need be.
- Kill AC and fold its properties into Marriott or Le Méridien; I see a lot of similarities in design between AC and LM [especially in their liberal use of pattern and shades of grey] and it'll give LM a grand return to its homeland on the Old Continent
UPSCALE/SIGNATURE
- Marriott isn't going anywhere
- Delta, Gaylord and Protea seem a little superfluous - Protea should definitely be folded into Courtyard or Marriott and Gaylord should be swallowed by Marriott. Maybe keep Delta although I don't personally see the point...
- Sheraton has a very strong brand name outside the US - especially in Asia and Marriott knows this, so definitely cull the bottom-end of this brand, kill the hare-brained Sheraton Grand designation and redefine the overall standards to make this brand relevant. Maybe have Sheraton be Marriott's international arm? [Sheraton by Marriott?]
MIDSCALE
- Courtyard's presence is significantly larger than the Four Points network so Four Points might have to bite the dust. Courtyard's new formula for rooms/public areas is also far fresher than the Four Points design in my opinion... Though the Four Points beer campaign MUST BE SAVED
- Kill Moxy and replace it with Aloft; more brand recognition, stronger name/identity and much larger network
EXTENDED-STAY
- Many, many Marriott brands running around in here; I'd like to see some consolidation among brands [i.e. Residence Inn, Fairfield Inn, Springhill Suites and Towneplace Suites get folded into one major brand - a nouveau Residence Inn if you will]
- Keep Element - it provides a unique edge over Marriott's more staid extended-stay offerings with its environmental/green approach and overall design aesthetic
INDEPENDENT/COLLECTIONS
- This is where things get interesting: Starwood has the Luxury Collection set aside for independent luxury properties and Tribute Portfolio for independent four-star/upper-upscale properties while Autograph Collection sort of lumps some great luxury/upper-upscale properties together under a common umbrella. I think Marriott should keep the Luxury Collection and move some of its more prized Autograph properties to it and reserve the Autograph name for upper-upscale properties; therefore, the Luxury Collection sticks around as a collection of top-end individual properties and Autograph eats Tribute
FINAL/ADJUSTED PORTFOLIO: Ritz-Carlton, Bulgari, St. Regis, Edition, W, Design Hotels, JW Marriott, Westin, Le Méridien, Marriott, Sheraton, Courtyard, Aloft, Marriott Executive Apartments, Marriott Vacation Club, new consolidated Marriott extended-stay brand, Element, Luxury Collection, Autograph Collection
Based on these notes, the new company should go from 30 brands back to Marriott's current count of 19 but with a more concentrated portfolio specializing in each area and a far, far stronger grasp on the lifestyle and upper-upscale segments.
I'd like to end this by reiterating that these thoughts are purely based on my own speculation and bias and as a customer/loyalist who wants to see his favorite hotel group go to a good, loving home. I was wary of this acquisition [I still am to some extent] but if Marriott does things right, then I believe that only good will come from this for everyone.
khabah
Here is where I think all brands currently stand across both companies:
Bold = Marriott, Italic = SPG
LUXURY
Ritz-Carlton, Bulgari, St. Regis
LIFESTYLE
Edition, W, Design Hotels
UPPER-UPSCALE
JW Marriott, Renaissance, AC Hotels, Westin, Le Méridien
UPSCALE/SIGNATURE
Marriott, Delta, Gaylord, Protea, Sheraton
MIDSCALE
Courtyard, Moxy, Four Points, Aloft
EXTENDED-STAY
Marriott Executive Apartments, Marriott Vacation Club, Residence Inn, Fairfield Inn, Springhill Suites, Towneplace Suites, Element
INDEPENDENT/COLLECTIONS
Autograph Collection, Luxury Collection, Tribute Portfolio
Here's what I'd like to see happen:
- It goes without saying that 30 brands makes for a MONSTER of a company. Many of these brands are strong, recognized names and I believe that Marriott needs to be very smart and judicious when deciding which brands to keep, which to kill off and which to fold into other brands
- It's an established fact Marriott will be keeping all eleven Starwood brands for now... but there will inevitably be some cuts here and there as there are obvious overlaps
- That being said, Marriott's own brands should ideally NOT be impervious to chopping/realignment if the company wants to truly strengthen its own offerings as Starwood brings quite a bit of strength to the table
On that note, this is a map of what I think the new company should look like based on the categories I outlined above:
LUXURY
- Ritz-Carlton, Bulgari and St. Regis all stay as individual brands
LIFESTYLE
- Edition stays
- W stays; this brand alone must have been a particularly juicy morsel for Marriott to go after
- The agreement with Design Hotels should stand as Starwood is a dominating shareholder and it gives Marriott an excellent platform into the lifestyle/design-led sector
UPPER-UPSCALE
- JW Marriott and Westin stay
- Kill Renaissance and let Le Méridien live/take its place; LM has a stronger brand identity, more recognized name internationally and just seems to be the better brand between the two. Current Renaissances could be converted into Marriotts or LMs as need be.
- Kill AC and fold its properties into Marriott or Le Méridien; I see a lot of similarities in design between AC and LM [especially in their liberal use of pattern and shades of grey] and it'll give LM a grand return to its homeland on the Old Continent
UPSCALE/SIGNATURE
- Marriott isn't going anywhere
- Delta, Gaylord and Protea seem a little superfluous - Protea should definitely be folded into Courtyard or Marriott and Gaylord should be swallowed by Marriott. Maybe keep Delta although I don't personally see the point...
- Sheraton has a very strong brand name outside the US - especially in Asia and Marriott knows this, so definitely cull the bottom-end of this brand, kill the hare-brained Sheraton Grand designation and redefine the overall standards to make this brand relevant. Maybe have Sheraton be Marriott's international arm? [Sheraton by Marriott?]
MIDSCALE
- Courtyard's presence is significantly larger than the Four Points network so Four Points might have to bite the dust. Courtyard's new formula for rooms/public areas is also far fresher than the Four Points design in my opinion... Though the Four Points beer campaign MUST BE SAVED
- Kill Moxy and replace it with Aloft; more brand recognition, stronger name/identity and much larger network
EXTENDED-STAY
- Many, many Marriott brands running around in here; I'd like to see some consolidation among brands [i.e. Residence Inn, Fairfield Inn, Springhill Suites and Towneplace Suites get folded into one major brand - a nouveau Residence Inn if you will]
- Keep Element - it provides a unique edge over Marriott's more staid extended-stay offerings with its environmental/green approach and overall design aesthetic
INDEPENDENT/COLLECTIONS
- This is where things get interesting: Starwood has the Luxury Collection set aside for independent luxury properties and Tribute Portfolio for independent four-star/upper-upscale properties while Autograph Collection sort of lumps some great luxury/upper-upscale properties together under a common umbrella. I think Marriott should keep the Luxury Collection and move some of its more prized Autograph properties to it and reserve the Autograph name for upper-upscale properties; therefore, the Luxury Collection sticks around as a collection of top-end individual properties and Autograph eats Tribute
FINAL/ADJUSTED PORTFOLIO: Ritz-Carlton, Bulgari, St. Regis, Edition, W, Design Hotels, JW Marriott, Westin, Le Méridien, Marriott, Sheraton, Courtyard, Aloft, Marriott Executive Apartments, Marriott Vacation Club, new consolidated Marriott extended-stay brand, Element, Luxury Collection, Autograph Collection
Based on these notes, the new company should go from 30 brands back to Marriott's current count of 19 but with a more concentrated portfolio specializing in each area and a far, far stronger grasp on the lifestyle and upper-upscale segments.
I'd like to end this by reiterating that these thoughts are purely based on my own speculation and bias and as a customer/loyalist who wants to see his favorite hotel group go to a good, loving home. I was wary of this acquisition [I still am to some extent] but if Marriott does things right, then I believe that only good will come from this for everyone.
khabah
Last edited by khabah; Jan 18, 2016 at 12:15 am
#21
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You've probably never stayed at a Gaylord property, either, if you do not recognize its unique niche. The four existing Gaylord properties (one more set to open soon) are among the largest non-casino hotels in the US with unique convention/resort capabilities not found in other Marriott branded properties, save, perhaps a couple Orlando properties and maybe one or two others in the US. There is a definite niche there. SPG has nothing like Gaylord.
#22
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FI and SHS are not extended stay brands; they are limited service hotels. RI and TPS have kitchens and dining tables. FI is just a room with a microwave/fridge. SHS rooms have two distinct areas (bed and living) in an open single room with a small bar area with a microwave/fridge and sometimes a sink. You've likely never stayed at these brands if you think there are similarities. Trust me, these are very different types of hotels.
You've probably never stayed at a Gaylord property, either, if you do not recognize its unique niche. The four existing Gaylord properties (one more set to open soon) are among the largest non-casino hotels in the US with unique convention/resort capabilities not found in other Marriott branded properties, save, perhaps a couple Orlando properties and maybe one or two others in the US. There is a definite niche there. SPG has nothing like Gaylord.
You've probably never stayed at a Gaylord property, either, if you do not recognize its unique niche. The four existing Gaylord properties (one more set to open soon) are among the largest non-casino hotels in the US with unique convention/resort capabilities not found in other Marriott branded properties, save, perhaps a couple Orlando properties and maybe one or two others in the US. There is a definite niche there. SPG has nothing like Gaylord.
khabah
#23
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"AC Hotels by Marriott" is in the select service tier, not the full-service tier. Marriott calls it "an upper-moderate tier lifestyle hotel brand for the design conscious traveler." Think of it as the more stylish cousin of Courtyard by Marriott.
Just because there are some decorating similarities between some AC Hotels properties and some Le Méridien properties does not mean those brands represent the same category of hotels.
EXTENDED-STAY
- Many, many Marriott brands running around in here; I'd like to see some consolidation among brands [i.e. Residence Inn, Fairfield Inn, Springhill Suites and Towneplace Suites get folded into one major brand - a nouveau Residence Inn if you will]
- Keep Element - it provides a unique edge over Marriott's more staid extended-stay offerings with its environmental/green approach and overall design aesthetic
- Many, many Marriott brands running around in here; I'd like to see some consolidation among brands [i.e. Residence Inn, Fairfield Inn, Springhill Suites and Towneplace Suites get folded into one major brand - a nouveau Residence Inn if you will]
- Keep Element - it provides a unique edge over Marriott's more staid extended-stay offerings with its environmental/green approach and overall design aesthetic
Last edited by Horace; Jan 18, 2016 at 7:46 am
#24
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Well then, I stand corrected. Please disregard whatever errors I've made/conclusions I've jumped to.
khabah
khabah
#25
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Edit - duplicate post.
#26
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Lots of interesting ideas and info in this thread, but in the end I don't think any of the legacy SPG or Marriott brands are going anywhere.
Compared to the concerns on FT I’m sure this merger looks very different from the perspective of the hotel franchisees that own the vast majority of the properties between MR and SPG. I think most hotel owners will NOT want to rebrand, add features, add benefits, or otherwise do anything that would add costs simply because of the merger. On the flip side, the owners that have invested in a feature (e.g. lounges) or distinctive brand likely want to keep those. Their frequent guests have come to appreciate and expect those features and benefits, and the owners likely see it as competitive differentiation.
There’s a lot of discussion about how the combined program’s 30 current brands would be “too many” and some will need to be cut or merged into others. However, MR has been very successful running 19 separate brands so I really don’t see why they can’t be successful running 30 separate brands. Some would argue that the ability to cut overhead is one of the principle drivers of value in the merger. Having one management team running 30 brands versus one running 19 and one running 11 supports that view.
Compared to the concerns on FT I’m sure this merger looks very different from the perspective of the hotel franchisees that own the vast majority of the properties between MR and SPG. I think most hotel owners will NOT want to rebrand, add features, add benefits, or otherwise do anything that would add costs simply because of the merger. On the flip side, the owners that have invested in a feature (e.g. lounges) or distinctive brand likely want to keep those. Their frequent guests have come to appreciate and expect those features and benefits, and the owners likely see it as competitive differentiation.
There’s a lot of discussion about how the combined program’s 30 current brands would be “too many” and some will need to be cut or merged into others. However, MR has been very successful running 19 separate brands so I really don’t see why they can’t be successful running 30 separate brands. Some would argue that the ability to cut overhead is one of the principle drivers of value in the merger. Having one management team running 30 brands versus one running 19 and one running 11 supports that view.
#27
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I doubt if Marriott is going to start wholesale changes of existing properties, like converting Sheratons to Marriotts. I don't think there's much of a reason to do so. They have a history of letting acquisitions pretty much remain as they were before.
The big question is, going forward, what will new-build hotels be? I have a hard time imagining that, in the US and Canada, Marriott won't use the existing Marriott brand structure.
As to age of properties, as long as they are doing refreshes every 5 years or so, and keeping all of the mechanical and behind the scenes stuff well maintained, the age of a building is almost irrelevant.
I think that the main struggle Marriott has had in the last decade or so was getting all of the franchisees to adhere to brand requirements. It seemed to take forever for tube TVs to be replaced, for fridges to become standard in rooms and not something you had to request and be brought up by maintenance guys when you checked in. I remember the bed refreshes at Courtyard were slow to start but then it seemed everywhere I went suddenly had the new mattresses and much better sheets and pillows.
They will have to harmonize on a few things, like either charging for internet access or not. Small things like that which should be fairly easy to implement at a given hotel.
The big question is, going forward, what will new-build hotels be? I have a hard time imagining that, in the US and Canada, Marriott won't use the existing Marriott brand structure.
As to age of properties, as long as they are doing refreshes every 5 years or so, and keeping all of the mechanical and behind the scenes stuff well maintained, the age of a building is almost irrelevant.
I think that the main struggle Marriott has had in the last decade or so was getting all of the franchisees to adhere to brand requirements. It seemed to take forever for tube TVs to be replaced, for fridges to become standard in rooms and not something you had to request and be brought up by maintenance guys when you checked in. I remember the bed refreshes at Courtyard were slow to start but then it seemed everywhere I went suddenly had the new mattresses and much better sheets and pillows.
They will have to harmonize on a few things, like either charging for internet access or not. Small things like that which should be fairly easy to implement at a given hotel.
#28
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It's much easier to compare against Hilton.
For example, Fairfield Inn is a very close match to Hilton's Hampton Inn (and pretty close match to IHG's Holiday Inn Express). SPG (and even Hyatt) have nothing in that space.
#29
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The developer will weigh what brands are available at a given location and what the target customer is likely to want (and will be willing to pay for).
If a developer wants to open a traditional full-service hotel but there's already a Marriott, the developer might choose Sheraton. If there's already a Sheraton, the developer might choose Marriott.
Or Delta.
Or Hilton or Crowne Plaza.
Last edited by Horace; Jan 18, 2016 at 11:19 am
#30
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Marriott is a brand company. The more, the better. It'll not be rationalising down to 19 brands, or even 25. Marriott will only cut out clear duplicates, the most obvious of which is Tribute, SPGs "me too" on Marriotts Autograph.
There will certainly be some shuffling of the pack as hotels swap into different brands within the Marriott portfolio and as standards for certain closely related brands are tweaked to emphasise differences, here I look at Ren and Le Meridien. Marriott may well want to do a couple of "mash up" brands (a la Hilton Garden Inn) for instance Delta looks like it could become a less defined full service, four-points could be the select serve equivalent.
One thing is for sure, a lot of complacent Sheratons have much to worry about in 2017. They devalue the brand, and Marriott won't have that.
There will certainly be some shuffling of the pack as hotels swap into different brands within the Marriott portfolio and as standards for certain closely related brands are tweaked to emphasise differences, here I look at Ren and Le Meridien. Marriott may well want to do a couple of "mash up" brands (a la Hilton Garden Inn) for instance Delta looks like it could become a less defined full service, four-points could be the select serve equivalent.
One thing is for sure, a lot of complacent Sheratons have much to worry about in 2017. They devalue the brand, and Marriott won't have that.