Apr 12, 2014, 10:10 am
AA,CH$,B* Etc (Help needed).
Apr 11, 2014, 8:08 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10
AA,CH$,B* Etc (Help needed).
I will start by saying I hate doing this. But I've made some errors in judgement and would like to repair the damage I've done.
I've been Churning CC apps and MSing for some time now. Non-aggressively churning cards (~4 per year) for the past 2 years, and I dipped my toe in to real MS at the start of February. 10k Feb, 25k March, 10 April (April 1-4).
That last bit in April (during the CVS death-throes) caused me a bit of trouble. I put 2.5k on a card with Cha$e that I hadn't spent a bit on in a while. The amounts were 500,500,1500, and when I went for another 1500, the card was declined. Not a problem at the time, use another card (6 cards with the, 20k total CL), and move along.
The next day I call them, fraud department transfers me to a specialist. Turns out my account had been reviewed that morning, and I was shut down. They pulled my Experian (10 hard pulls on record) and didn't like how I had 63k of combined CL between all my lenders (of whom they were the largest).
As I was on traveling on business that day, I needed to call them back. The next day, talked to a different gal who said I was flagged as at risk - my CL to income ratio was high (more CL than reported income >.< ), and the number of hard pulls was a bad sign. They also didn't like that I had let 4k charges close on one of my statements (rookie mistake), and that a few of my earlier cards had been closed with amounts near their CL (I'd paid tuition on some and the dates were all scrunched together).
Lastly she questioned my purchases of AMEX GCs (10k in 1/month) and my large charges at CVS. I told her I use portals to get cashback on AGCs, and I had a few larger charges that could be payed with CC so why not, and also that I was loading a card at CVS in preparation for paying taxes this year (self employed, had to give 700 back to Uncle Sam just yesterday).
Now, she did tell me that if Experian had errors on my report, that I could get them corrected, and within 30-60 days (once Experian updates things), I could get my account reviewed and possibly reopened.
As it was, I was able to cash out my points rewards for cash - I was lucky enough to call the same day, so my orders went through. However, Cha$e has some of the best rewards cards, and also one of my oldest cards I opened up 5 years ago (Amazon CC). I'd rather not like to lose that, but I was told that the whole account needs to be opened at once, and then lines can be consolidated.
What are my options, and what does the collective wisdom of FT say about this? I've read about B* with both EX and TU, but I'm sure they'll keep a copy of my old report and something like that might look suspicious. My Reported Income for 2013 was only 30k, although I'm on track for 50k this year.
As far as I see it, I have a couple action paths...
A. Close down useless CCs to reduce available credit and number of active cards (apparently I have 17 active cards). Consolidate credit when needed, but otherwise just close the account voluntarily after cashing out rewards.
B. Attempt B* with EX to knock off the majority of my hard pulls.
C. Freeze EX and examine my TU report (and maybe EQ). If necessary, attempt B* for TU, and one achieved, resubmit to the lender and talk my way around the EX freeze.
D. Cowboy up and move on (and reapply next year when I report more income).
I'm likely going to do A already. I can cut out 6 cards via consolidation/closing accounts, while only reducing my total credit by 5k. If needed, I could drop another 10k CL without trouble (I value Citi CL as basically useless for MS, although decently valuable for business purposes), although I'd prefer to keep one of my older Citi cards open.
I'm happy to PM with more details if necessary (the internet never forgets) but I expect the wisdom of FT will have useful insight. Mods, if you need to, please move this to the right forum.
I've been Churning CC apps and MSing for some time now. Non-aggressively churning cards (~4 per year) for the past 2 years, and I dipped my toe in to real MS at the start of February. 10k Feb, 25k March, 10 April (April 1-4).
That last bit in April (during the CVS death-throes) caused me a bit of trouble. I put 2.5k on a card with Cha$e that I hadn't spent a bit on in a while. The amounts were 500,500,1500, and when I went for another 1500, the card was declined. Not a problem at the time, use another card (6 cards with the, 20k total CL), and move along.
The next day I call them, fraud department transfers me to a specialist. Turns out my account had been reviewed that morning, and I was shut down. They pulled my Experian (10 hard pulls on record) and didn't like how I had 63k of combined CL between all my lenders (of whom they were the largest).
As I was on traveling on business that day, I needed to call them back. The next day, talked to a different gal who said I was flagged as at risk - my CL to income ratio was high (more CL than reported income >.< ), and the number of hard pulls was a bad sign. They also didn't like that I had let 4k charges close on one of my statements (rookie mistake), and that a few of my earlier cards had been closed with amounts near their CL (I'd paid tuition on some and the dates were all scrunched together).
Lastly she questioned my purchases of AMEX GCs (10k in 1/month) and my large charges at CVS. I told her I use portals to get cashback on AGCs, and I had a few larger charges that could be payed with CC so why not, and also that I was loading a card at CVS in preparation for paying taxes this year (self employed, had to give 700 back to Uncle Sam just yesterday).
Now, she did tell me that if Experian had errors on my report, that I could get them corrected, and within 30-60 days (once Experian updates things), I could get my account reviewed and possibly reopened.
As it was, I was able to cash out my points rewards for cash - I was lucky enough to call the same day, so my orders went through. However, Cha$e has some of the best rewards cards, and also one of my oldest cards I opened up 5 years ago (Amazon CC). I'd rather not like to lose that, but I was told that the whole account needs to be opened at once, and then lines can be consolidated.
What are my options, and what does the collective wisdom of FT say about this? I've read about B* with both EX and TU, but I'm sure they'll keep a copy of my old report and something like that might look suspicious. My Reported Income for 2013 was only 30k, although I'm on track for 50k this year.
As far as I see it, I have a couple action paths...
A. Close down useless CCs to reduce available credit and number of active cards (apparently I have 17 active cards). Consolidate credit when needed, but otherwise just close the account voluntarily after cashing out rewards.
B. Attempt B* with EX to knock off the majority of my hard pulls.
C. Freeze EX and examine my TU report (and maybe EQ). If necessary, attempt B* for TU, and one achieved, resubmit to the lender and talk my way around the EX freeze.
D. Cowboy up and move on (and reapply next year when I report more income).
I'm likely going to do A already. I can cut out 6 cards via consolidation/closing accounts, while only reducing my total credit by 5k. If needed, I could drop another 10k CL without trouble (I value Citi CL as basically useless for MS, although decently valuable for business purposes), although I'd prefer to keep one of my older Citi cards open.
I'm happy to PM with more details if necessary (the internet never forgets) but I expect the wisdom of FT will have useful insight. Mods, if you need to, please move this to the right forum.
Apr 11, 2014, 8:42 am
#3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 304
I have had mixed success in getting manual reviews of Eq and Tu instead of Ex. Freeze Ex, tell them you are disputing something and that you would appreciate if they used the other two agencies. Obviously it's more work, but may be worth it.
Apr 11, 2014, 9:35 am
#4
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: ATL F-Terminal
Programs: Hilton C, Marriott Pt, Delta Pt
Posts: 249
A. Research more on this before you start closing CCs. Closing CC could negatively affect your credit score if you're not careful. Try to keep your CS as high as possible at all time. Lower CS means that you'll pay more for your home/car loans, insurance, etc. You may make some money/points from MS but you end up paying more for everything else.
- You don't want to close CC that has the longest history.
- You want to move CL to other CCs(within same bank) before closing if possible. It sounds like you already know this.
One vote for D.
- You don't want to close CC that has the longest history.
- You want to move CL to other CCs(within same bank) before closing if possible. It sounds like you already know this.
One vote for D.
Apr 11, 2014, 9:46 am
#5
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 511
In regards to what you plan to do with consolidation, I'd take careful stock of the cards you have. Take it I'm not an exper either.
I'm sure you have a good plan in place, but I wouldn't close cards for the sake of closing them. If they are older cards with no annual fees (or cards you find value in) you might try calling the CC company and asking for a reduced CL on that card. That way you keep the average age of the account (good for your score) and also reduce your available CL (make Chase happy).
I imagine you attract more attention from CC companies because of your self-employed status, so keep that in mind with future MS.
I'm sure you have a good plan in place, but I wouldn't close cards for the sake of closing them. If they are older cards with no annual fees (or cards you find value in) you might try calling the CC company and asking for a reduced CL on that card. That way you keep the average age of the account (good for your score) and also reduce your available CL (make Chase happy).
I imagine you attract more attention from CC companies because of your self-employed status, so keep that in mind with future MS.
Apr 11, 2014, 11:18 am
#6
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Jersey
Programs: Delta P, SPG G, Marriott S, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,007
Sorry that it happened. Do you have other balances reported on your credit report?
I highly doubt ms caused the adverse action, but rather you were risky to them to begin with. Large credit lines, total above your income. Not normal. Bad risk to them.
As someone else stated, there is no bumpage on ex. Your best case is to speak with the underwriters and ask what they need to keep it open. Be it close down lines, etc.
When your income is low... That unfortunately is something you have to deal with.
I highly doubt ms caused the adverse action, but rather you were risky to them to begin with. Large credit lines, total above your income. Not normal. Bad risk to them.
As someone else stated, there is no bumpage on ex. Your best case is to speak with the underwriters and ask what they need to keep it open. Be it close down lines, etc.
When your income is low... That unfortunately is something you have to deal with.
Apr 11, 2014, 12:54 pm
#7
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 920
Are you me?
This exact thing happened to me a month ago except for the large balances part.
There was no mention of my spending levels and I was MS'ing heavily.
I don't see much of a point in B* TU and EQ since they only checked EX.
Hoping that once my recent hard inquiries reach their 90 days by end of month, I can call in again and try.
Really want to get these accounts back, but kinda doubting it...
This exact thing happened to me a month ago except for the large balances part.
There was no mention of my spending levels and I was MS'ing heavily.
I don't see much of a point in B* TU and EQ since they only checked EX.
Hoping that once my recent hard inquiries reach their 90 days by end of month, I can call in again and try.
Really want to get these accounts back, but kinda doubting it...
Apr 11, 2014, 1:41 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10
Sorry that it happened. Do you have other balances reported on your credit report?
I highly doubt ms caused the adverse action, but rather you were risky to them to begin with. Large credit lines, total above your income. Not normal. Bad risk to them.
As someone else stated, there is no bumpage on ex. Your best case is to speak with the underwriters and ask what they need to keep it open. Be it close down lines, etc.
When your income is low... That unfortunately is something you have to deal with.
I highly doubt ms caused the adverse action, but rather you were risky to them to begin with. Large credit lines, total above your income. Not normal. Bad risk to them.
As someone else stated, there is no bumpage on ex. Your best case is to speak with the underwriters and ask what they need to keep it open. Be it close down lines, etc.
When your income is low... That unfortunately is something you have to deal with.
I do think I'm going to call back and see what exactly the need. I do have a few cards I could consolidate/close, and many of them are recently opened (1 year) only for signup bonuses.
Are you me?
This exact thing happened to me a month ago except for the large balances part.
There was no mention of my spending levels and I was MS'ing heavily.
I don't see much of a point in B* TU and EQ since they only checked EX.
Hoping that once my recent hard inquiries reach their 90 days by end of month, I can call in again and try.
Really want to get these accounts back, but kinda doubting it...
This exact thing happened to me a month ago except for the large balances part.
There was no mention of my spending levels and I was MS'ing heavily.
I don't see much of a point in B* TU and EQ since they only checked EX.
Hoping that once my recent hard inquiries reach their 90 days by end of month, I can call in again and try.
Really want to get these accounts back, but kinda doubting it...
Hitman - did that happen with the bank I'm referencing? Were you given the same information I was given?
My first talk with them was pretty interesting - I don't know where exactly in the food chain I ended up, but it sounded like the lady was bound by the algorithm and couldn't override it. The second talk was much more informative, but I couldn't pin down if she could override what the system said. She did take notes about what we discussed, but I didn't push hard enough.
Cha$e has pretty much been my go-to bank during my adult-transformative years, and I'll be honest the shut down hurt. I can't say I like what they do (did?) in their housing-lending side, but their CS has always been top notch and they've matched a number of offers post application (BA 100k/Marriot 70k). On an MS side, losing the ability to pay at a branch w/MO makes things more of a hassle, but not that much more. The loss of potential points kinda stings, but a good portion of what I'm feeling comes from the irrational attachment to things that keeping giving you good things (and boy have they given me a lot).
I appreciate all the feedback. I think I'll give them a call again, and then take it up with EX. I was unaware of a few of the pulls on there (and at least one is a duplicate from AMEX) and it'll be interesting to see what I can do. I'll compare them to TU as well, and depending on how I fair, I might freeze EX and provide Cha$e with another bureau. I know pulling a frozen bureau during an app will go to processing - anyone have any information on what the effect here would be? If it's not negative, I could go for B* with someone else and see what happens....
Apr 11, 2014, 2:01 pm
#9
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 784
Personally, I think this thread does not belong here. It belongs in the thread below, which contains a lot of insight of the current thought on Chase shutdowns, some which mirror your own experience and actions (which are not the ones you seem to be focused on) and it contains posts from experienced FTers, which the MS forum generally no longer contains.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...points-16.html
Sorry OP. However, there is a FTer who has a some insight on recovery of URs in that thread from which you may be able to benefit.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...points-16.html
Sorry OP. However, there is a FTer who has a some insight on recovery of URs in that thread from which you may be able to benefit.
Apr 11, 2014, 2:56 pm
#10
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: DCA
Programs: US GP, *G, HHonors Gold, SPG
Posts: 141
Think this may be the reason for your shutdown. If not the sole reason, at least a big part of it. I will still say that I've never heard of anyone being shutdown purely for MSing (I've run 10K per month in AGCs for many months plus thousands in other MS expenses). Rather, its a combination of MS, a large balance or two, credit lines, and payment via MO. Lots of reports of Chase shutdowns due to MO payment.
Apr 11, 2014, 4:31 pm
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10
Both at times. Checking opened 2 years ago (used for DD at times) savings 1 year ago. Savings closed 6 months ago, checking closed 2 months ago.
I'm almost 100% the fraud alert (which I didn't take care of right away >.<) triggered the soft pull, and during the review the # cards/#pulls/CL$$ threw the flag. That's pretty much exactly what they told me on the phone.
I'm thinking of taking to twitter if they deny my appeal after talking to EX.
I'm almost 100% the fraud alert (which I didn't take care of right away >.<) triggered the soft pull, and during the review the # cards/#pulls/CL$$ threw the flag. That's pretty much exactly what they told me on the phone.
I'm thinking of taking to twitter if they deny my appeal after talking to EX.
Apr 12, 2014, 2:17 am
#14
Suspended
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ORD
Programs: AA, UA, AS, DL, BA, F9, IHG Plat, HH Gold, CC Gold, SPG Gold, MR Silver
Posts: 1,786
Apr 12, 2014, 7:27 am
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10
See, but the catch is I never actually did that. It was certainly in my plans if other things worked out (and if CVS did really die) but I hadn't gone that route yet.