Proposal and Discussion: Limit the MS thread access
#286
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
Not workable and nonsensical. FT is an open forum -- if it's here, it's out there -- you don't need to blame others. Besides, there's no reason to blame anyone -- deals die, others appear. No individual has any more right to exploit them than any other member of the general public.
#287
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
How do you propose to enforce that? Nothing to stop me from sharing with anyone I want to share with, and many of these bloggers are long time FT members (longer than you've been here).
#288
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: California
Posts: 1,105
They're still leeches, parasites, and copy/paste spammers that pollute the Internet regardless of their tenure on FT. Drawing boxes and arrows while wearing a bow tie does not constitute original useful content. It's spam with all of those affiliate links that allow them to spam rather than to get a real job. It's why Google has still failed getting rid of webspam. Flyertalk links should be on top of search engines unless the blogger came up with the idea first.
#289
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
Is there some requirement that a blog has to produce original, useful content? They're free to pick up anything off FT they want, just as members of the media can, or even competing frequent flyer sites. If you have a proposal to limit their access, and some way to enforce it, by all means let the Talk Board know so they can act on it. For now, they have the same access both you and I have.
#290
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
That doesn't make them saints.
They're still leeches, parasites, and copy/paste spammers that pollute the Internet regardless of their tenure on FT. Drawing boxes and arrows while wearing a bow tie does not constitute original useful content. It's spam with all of those affiliate links that allow them to spam rather than to get a real job. It's why Google has still failed getting rid of webspam. Flyertalk links should be on top of search engines unless the blogger came up with the idea first.
They're still leeches, parasites, and copy/paste spammers that pollute the Internet regardless of their tenure on FT. Drawing boxes and arrows while wearing a bow tie does not constitute original useful content. It's spam with all of those affiliate links that allow them to spam rather than to get a real job. It's why Google has still failed getting rid of webspam. Flyertalk links should be on top of search engines unless the blogger came up with the idea first.
Last edited by PaulMSN; Apr 14, 2014 at 12:16 am
#291
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 526
Does this mean that FT is also a leech for condescending useful information? Of course not. Bloggers get a lot of hate, some of it's understandable and some of it I find totally perplexing.
By the time methods make it to FT, it's already too late. The method is going main stream. The main issue with MS isn't those on FT, it's straight up credit card fraud. That's the real issue we need to be discussing, how do we continue to rack up points without allowing fraudsters to gain access to the methods?
#292
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angles
Posts: 2,101
That doesn't make them saints.
They're still leeches, parasites, and copy/paste spammers that pollute the Internet regardless of their tenure on FT. Drawing boxes and arrows while wearing a bow tie does not constitute original useful content. It's spam with all of those affiliate links that allow them to spam rather than to get a real job. It's why Google has still failed getting rid of webspam. Flyertalk links should be on top of search engines unless the blogger came up with the idea first.
They're still leeches, parasites, and copy/paste spammers that pollute the Internet regardless of their tenure on FT. Drawing boxes and arrows while wearing a bow tie does not constitute original useful content. It's spam with all of those affiliate links that allow them to spam rather than to get a real job. It's why Google has still failed getting rid of webspam. Flyertalk links should be on top of search engines unless the blogger came up with the idea first.
Most of the MS deals I have done (even before the mint coins) were known to me through bloggers. They do a good job explaining the things and here we share our experiences. The most annoying here is when people write in childish codes.
#293
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Beverly Hills
Posts: 713
I think it's toxic to create an "elite" atmosphere of only people who know everything about manufactured spending and talk in esoteric acronym codes for the various MS products, locations, liquidation methods, etc.
As one who considers himself an "intermediate" MS-er, I understand the risk I'm taking every time I swipe or authorize an AU to swipe my card for $X03.95. Or every time I deposit an MO into my checking account. That being said, there are opportunities that pop up that sometimes require one to pursue new avenues. What is so wrong with asking questions when you don't know something?
My $0.02: maybe but a splash page with terms & conditions essentially accepting personal risk and liability whenever one opens the "Manufactured Spending" folder? And maybe have a document explaining the acronyms that you can only access after 100 [legitimate] posts site-wide & 6 months of membership?
#294
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WAS
Programs: SPG Plat. Marriott Plat. Hilton Diamond. Hyatt Diamond. IHG Plat.
Posts: 2,580
My issue is with noobies not understanding the risk they're taking on. Look at the AMEX GC thread, a certain user there was going in blind. Asking questions AFTER the fact. This has happened all over the MS forum.
People are thinking in terms of points and not $$$.
I came to this realization of this when I had $3000 of $20 bills sitting in my car. People seem to forget that these cash equivalents like VR or OV are just the same as having cash sitting on your person.
I'm all for restricting the MS forum some what. There's a lot of risk involved, of which noobies don't seem to comprehend until something bad happens.
People are thinking in terms of points and not $$$.
I came to this realization of this when I had $3000 of $20 bills sitting in my car. People seem to forget that these cash equivalents like VR or OV are just the same as having cash sitting on your person.
I'm all for restricting the MS forum some what. There's a lot of risk involved, of which noobies don't seem to comprehend until something bad happens.
#295
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
My issue is with noobies not understanding the risk they're taking on. Look at the AMEX GC thread, a certain user there was going in blind. Asking questions AFTER the fact. This has happened all over the MS forum.
People are thinking in terms of points and not $$$.
I came to this realization of this when I had $3000 of $20 bills sitting in my car. People seem to forget that these cash equivalents like VR or OV are just the same as having cash sitting on your person.
I'm all for restricting the MS forum some what. There's a lot of risk involved, of which noobies don't seem to comprehend until something bad happens.
People are thinking in terms of points and not $$$.
I came to this realization of this when I had $3000 of $20 bills sitting in my car. People seem to forget that these cash equivalents like VR or OV are just the same as having cash sitting on your person.
I'm all for restricting the MS forum some what. There's a lot of risk involved, of which noobies don't seem to comprehend until something bad happens.
If you don't have a slow lane on the freeway and restrict all new drivers from driving on the freeway, the new drivers will never be able to drive there. The worst part is, those new drivers may be on their way to discovering a new method of transportation for our miles and points.... but you don't want to help them?
Only people with 1000+ posts may be allowed to log in to FT. That ought to clean things right up...
#296
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 215
Maybe you should learn to use ......., NoScript and an Element Hiding Helper if your internet experience is so dreadful.
#297
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5
Hello, I am part of the silent majority which has recently come underfire/ the spotlight.
I have been around since pre-fed days, and have watched this hobby evolve over time as the fed, and then Chase/Office depot, wised up and CVS became the focal point of MS.... It's been fun watching doors open and "close," and I really struggle with the use of the word "close." CVS and office depot are still viable means for anyone willing to do just a little bit more work... like registering VGCs for certain ... "purchases."
My question/concern is simple; what would we gain from closing off the forums? A couple more months of abusing one trick before the issuer wises up?
CVS -> Bluebird -> Citi/Amex was too easy and everyone who has been around for awhile saw this axe coming... but chicken little had been calling for almost a year and a half before the axe finally fell....
So really, I suppose the real question is; is a couple more months of doing the same thing really worth closing the door on someone who might have the key to unlocking the next big thing?
I have been around since pre-fed days, and have watched this hobby evolve over time as the fed, and then Chase/Office depot, wised up and CVS became the focal point of MS.... It's been fun watching doors open and "close," and I really struggle with the use of the word "close." CVS and office depot are still viable means for anyone willing to do just a little bit more work... like registering VGCs for certain ... "purchases."
My question/concern is simple; what would we gain from closing off the forums? A couple more months of abusing one trick before the issuer wises up?
CVS -> Bluebird -> Citi/Amex was too easy and everyone who has been around for awhile saw this axe coming... but chicken little had been calling for almost a year and a half before the axe finally fell....
So really, I suppose the real question is; is a couple more months of doing the same thing really worth closing the door on someone who might have the key to unlocking the next big thing?
#298
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: MCO
Programs: AA 1MM, BA, UA, HH Dia, CC Gold, SPG Plat
Posts: 795
Then how does one relieve themselves of the "noobie" status? If there is no forum for them to ask the questions then of course they are going to make mistakes. If they see a bunch of people getting flamed for asking a question, they will be discouraged from asking the question here and end up at WM asking the lady at the desk if their VGC are the right kind for MO purchase...
If you don't have a slow lane on the freeway and restrict all new drivers from driving on the freeway, the new drivers will never be able to drive there. The worst part is, those new drivers may be on their way to discovering a new method of transportation for our miles and points.... but you don't want to help them?
Only people with 1000+ posts may be allowed to log in to FT. That ought to clean things right up...
If you don't have a slow lane on the freeway and restrict all new drivers from driving on the freeway, the new drivers will never be able to drive there. The worst part is, those new drivers may be on their way to discovering a new method of transportation for our miles and points.... but you don't want to help them?
Only people with 1000+ posts may be allowed to log in to FT. That ought to clean things right up...
Noone has a problem with questions being asked, when they haven't already been answered again and again and again. Some people don't seem to understand that errors in judgment at retailers can have a wider negative impact than they realize. Access should be limited until some criteria (identifying acronyms & reading the newbie thread at the least ) is met.
#299
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Herein lies the problem. FT IS the slow lane. All information needed is here - it simply requires reading!!! Too many noobs jumping in (from blogs?) with no earthly idea of the ramifications, little regard or understanding of social engineering and seemingly a general lack of common sense.
Noone has a problem with questions being asked, when they haven't already been answered again and again and again. Some people don't seem to understand that errors in judgment at retailers can have a wider negative impact than they realize. Access should be limited until some criteria (identifying acronyms & reading the newbie thread at the least ) is met.
Noone has a problem with questions being asked, when they haven't already been answered again and again and again. Some people don't seem to understand that errors in judgment at retailers can have a wider negative impact than they realize. Access should be limited until some criteria (identifying acronyms & reading the newbie thread at the least ) is met.
People ask "stupid" questions because they are lazy and do not want to read the endless, and frankly overwhelming posts in the MS forums. No way around that unless you make this forum private. That's the Internet for you, most people just want an easy answer to a question. I took the time to read through the threads in MS that I thought would apply to me before jumping in. I have probably read 10,xxx posts about VR before applying for a points earning credit card and it died before I could purchase a single one... I guess it's a good thing I also read the threads about AP, OV, PP, TCB, etc as well. Would you have me excluded from the MS forum simply because I have a low post count? Probably. Why is it so low? Most likely because I took the time to read everything before asking a question or commenting on anything. But I'm a newbie, so I should be excluded from the forum because I have done what you think should be the requirement?
My point is, how do you restrict the forum to effectively achieve the goal of keeping the information from being exposed? How do you determine who is eligible to view the information? Who is the gatekeeper? The idea of limiting the information is flawed in that application of the limitation would be too big a task and would not have the end result the group wants.
#300
Join Date: Jun 2011
Programs: DL, Amex MR
Posts: 287
Actually his well-researched, in-depth series on the use of Lufthansa's Miles & More program were instrumental in my decision to get the card after hearing about the offer all over the place. His articles were no cut & paste, but a project that required hours of work. http://millionmilesecrets.com/2013/0...fthansa-miles/ And because of this, I specifically chose to use his link.
So Google would get rid of webspam if it weren't for the points & miles bloggers? /facepalm/
Maybe you should learn to use ......., NoScript and an Element Hiding Helper if your internet experience is so dreadful.
So Google would get rid of webspam if it weren't for the points & miles bloggers? /facepalm/
Maybe you should learn to use ......., NoScript and an Element Hiding Helper if your internet experience is so dreadful.
He rubbed people the wrong way not because of the ghostwriting but because he got caught pretending he was the one who did all the work.
Last edited by satz; Apr 14, 2014 at 7:26 pm