Father-of-3

They don't mail you a check, they take the points. See the threads on Chase shutdowns.

PainCorp

If you're really that concerned about it, don't do it. Simple as that.

JohnnyGraz

First off, what is "wired fraud"? You must mean "wire fraud". Secondarily, if financial institutions were so dead set on prosecution for "points fraud", we would have seen the crackdown a LONG time ago.

Father-of-3

Wired fraud is $6.50 for a triple espresso at Starbucks.

TheChallenge

I understand, I'll keep my advice to myself in the future.

In the mean time, it might do all some good to check out the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics listing of federal felonies charged by offense type before everyone assumes I have no idea what I'm talking about.

I'd post the exact link to search for number of wire fraud charges per year, along with the correlation in downward trend after the introduction of the internet, but I'm not feeling as helpful as I was this morning for some odd reason.

turnpike13

BREAKING NEWS! Chase begins prosecuting credit card holders for earning too many points!

Imagine what that would do to their customer base?

You wouldn't get a run on chase banks, you'd get a stampede.

shopper711

Thank you for good laugh!

prasha11

Not sure of stampede but minimum spend for new application will come down

KYBOSH

AlohaDaveKennedy

Especially if your SB card is not loaded from discounted SB gift cards bought on Cardpool, etc.

AlohaDaveKennedy

Indeed, we cardinals can sell indulgences to commute penance for all your sins.

But for a few of you prolific sinners there are not Skypesos enough on Earth to buy those indulgences. And you know who you are. You are going to fly Spirit and Ryan straight to hell with free booze on board to complement the new pay toilets they installed that only take $20 bills!

Originally Posted by Father-of-3 View Post

...Many people on this board are actively commuting fraud...

DCBob

That is absurd. You are making a legal purchase at a merchant that allows the use of a credit card for such purchase. It is up to the credit card issuer to decide if that purchase qualifies for points or miles. Some of the card issuers already have an agreement with the credit cardholder that says they will not allow the earning of points or miles on the purchases of cash equivalents, including prepaid cards. If they are not enforcing that provision or do not have such a provision, that is clearly the fault of the merchant. Did the government prosecute buyers of dollars coins from the US Mint for earning points or miles on such purchases? No, of course not. No one committed fraud. The Mint instead chose to close this loophole down.

And even if some overzealous federal prosecutor went insane and wanted to prosecuted this fictitious fraud, he would be laughed at by his superiors. I worked for the federal government for 32 years and know from personal experience that it was exceedingly difficult to get the government to prosecute real legitimate federal crimes (like tax fraud), let alone this nonsense.

IMHO, end of discussion. Let;s move back to a USEFUL discussion grounded in reality, like credit card issuers closing accounts, which is an action that they can do and actually sometimes take in egregious cases of overzealous point hogs.

Father-of-3

Perhaps this will help with your confusion. Note that I'm not suggesting there is any real risk of legal action for 99.99% of us. But Flyertalk seems to have many people who see no issue with making false statements. I don't believe there is anything wrong with pushing the points game, but when adverse actions happen and someone asks for suggestions I see many people suggesting creative stories to tell. Once you start making stuff up any lying I think you are going down a slippery slope. Again, not an issue for most of us, even the ones advising people to lie, but you can't commit just a little fraud. Its like being a little pregnant. If the speed limit is 55 and you are going 56 you are technically speeding - you aren't going to get a ticket but that doesn't make it legal to drive 56 in a 55. Maybe you can go 58 or 60 or 65 - at some point it gets the highway patrol to put down the donut and give you a ticket. I've never received a ticket for going 5 miles over the speed limit. I don't know anyone who has so I feel comfortable doing it. Each person has their comfort zone. Also, I don't get upset when I get speeding tickets for 20 over the posted limit. I know I was going to fast and I pay the fine.

From the free legal dictionary:

Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.

Father-of-3

It seems Chase has been doing lots of shutdowns latels. WellsFargo did with their pre-paid items. I think the different approaches are interesting. Wellsfargo pretty much refunded your money immeditely and closed your account. Really customer focused. Google Wallet sent very polite e-mails suggesting we were doing things to get points. Again, very customer focused.

I wonder if these companies being more customer focused just means we will abuse them more or if they will actually get a return on their good karma?

DCBob

Most FlyerTalkers don't abuse the system, but a few bad apples can ruin it for everyone. The point hogs that kill the golden goose seem to have no conscience and just think about their temporary gains and don't care if the rest of us get screwed in the process. After all, we are just "collateral damage."