Old Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.

Hints

1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.

2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.

Important Rules

1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.

2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.

3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.

4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."

5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).

If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.

a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years

1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting

2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.

3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)

4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.

5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.

6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible

And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)

And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.

Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.

In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.

When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.

Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
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Old Sep 30, 2014, 10:13 am
  #1036  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 415
Originally Posted by coolmuke
I am trying to understand the best use of AFT. Maybe good for minimum spend requirements. If ATM unload is the only option, it is probably not a good idea to deposit 5K in cash back to bank account.
how is everyone else using their AFT card.
My suggestion: Find a bank that you can afford to get shut down. Local credit union does just fine. That being said, many banks don't care about large cash deposits
ttlmmky is offline  
Old Sep 30, 2014, 11:47 am
  #1037  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: IAD
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by coolmuke
I am trying to understand the best use of AFT. Maybe good for minimum spend requirements. If ATM unload is the only option, it is probably not a good idea to deposit 5K in cash back to bank account.
how is everyone else using their AFT card.
Originally Posted by ttlmmky
My suggestion: Find a bank that you can afford to get shut down. Local credit union does just fine. That being said, many banks don't care about large cash deposits
This is what I am thinking. Load AFT with Barclays. cash out and deposit.
Get VGC using Amex blue 5% and do WM BP to Barclays.

For $2000 -
AFT - Load fees $6, ATM fees(4.5X5) $21.25, cashBack - $40, Net - $12.75
VGC - Fees - 5.95X4=23.8 + 1.88 BP fees = $25.68, Cashback - $100, Net - 74.32

Net Profit - $87.07

Does it make sense?
coolmuke is offline  
Old Sep 30, 2014, 11:53 am
  #1038  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 415
Originally Posted by coolmuke
This is what I am thinking. Load AFT with Barclays. cash out and deposit.
Get VGC using Amex blue 5% and do WM BP to Barclays.

For $2000 -
AFT - Load fees $6, ATM fees(4.5X5) $21.25, cashBack - $40, Net - $12.75
VGC - Fees - 5.95X4=23.8 + 1.88 BP fees = $25.68, Cashback - $100, Net - 74.32

Net Profit - $87.07

Does it make sense?
Yup. I don't load AFT from a 2% card though. At worst, use your VGC's to load.
ttlmmky is offline  
Old Sep 30, 2014, 12:04 pm
  #1039  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: IAD
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by ttlmmky
Yup. I don't load AFT from a 2% card though. At worst, use your VGC's to load.
If I use 2% card, I can double dip by using VGC BP.
coolmuke is offline  
Old Sep 30, 2014, 5:41 pm
  #1040  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SFO
Programs: United Silver
Posts: 217
Thanks everyone for this thread - going to look into Serve and AFT as they seem the easiest approach at this time.
thebob6 is offline  
Old Sep 30, 2014, 10:46 pm
  #1041  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG & IHG Plat, & every airline program that I can join
Posts: 2,279
Originally Posted by FlightNurse
I didn't just buy Amex CC with my AMEX cards I did a mix of buying. I even bought Lowes GC from Amazon and then went to the lowes stores and bought Amex GC.. It's a round about way but it showed Amex I wasn't MSing..
Better to go to Cardpool thru a portal and buy Lowes at 10% off, them going to buy gift cards there, that way you make more%. I usually buy Amazon cards at Lowes, surprised they let you buy Amex with a gift card.

JudyJFLA
JudyJFLA is offline  
Old Sep 30, 2014, 10:48 pm
  #1042  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG & IHG Plat, & every airline program that I can join
Posts: 2,279
Originally Posted by coolmuke
I am trying to understand the best use of AFT. Maybe good for minimum spend requirements. If ATM unload is the only option, it is probably not a good idea to deposit 5K in cash back to bank account.
how is everyone else using their AFT card.
OK, I have been gone all summer... What is AFT card?
I will so Miss AP!!!

JudyJFLA
JudyJFLA is offline  
Old Oct 1, 2014, 7:51 am
  #1043  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,408
Originally Posted by JudyJFLA
Better to go to Cardpool thru a portal and buy Lowes at 10% off, them going to buy gift cards there, that way you make more%. I usually buy Amazon cards at Lowes, surprised they let you buy Amex with a gift card.

JudyJFLA
Why? I had an offer through Amex that allowed me to get the Amex GC with no fee if I used my AMex Cards.
FlightNurse is offline  
Old Oct 1, 2014, 7:53 am
  #1044  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 343
Originally Posted by FlightNurse
Why? I had an offer through Amex that allowed me to get the Amex GC with no fee if I used my AMex Cards.
You get no points on your AMEX if you buy AMEX GCs.
JunkDiver is offline  
Old Oct 1, 2014, 1:20 pm
  #1045  
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,408
Originally Posted by JunkDiver
You get no points on your AMEX if you buy AMEX GCs.
I did it to meet the mim spend on my Amex Cards..
FlightNurse is offline  
Old Oct 1, 2014, 6:42 pm
  #1046  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: UA, AA, AMEX MR
Posts: 111
If you load serve with a credit card online then withdraw money and deposit, is that a problem with the bank and cc company?

If you did that, that would be a lot of miles every year, right? Would that raise a red flag?

Oh, and what is AFT?
dcflyer10 is offline  
Old Oct 1, 2014, 7:50 pm
  #1047  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG & IHG Plat, & every airline program that I can join
Posts: 2,279
Originally Posted by FlightNurse
Why? I had an offer through Amex that allowed me to get the Amex GC with no fee if I used my AMex Cards.
And with that you could have gone via a portal like Lucky Rewards or Big Crumbs to get the Amex Cards, it has been up to 4% during the past year. You can go up to 4 levels of cashbacks and discounts in this game.

JudyJFLA

Still, what are AFT Cards? Been in the sticks all summer, coming back to a lot of changes
JudyJFLA is offline  
Old Oct 2, 2014, 2:13 am
  #1048  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: a hotel room, somewhere...
Posts: 962
Originally Posted by JudyJFLA
And with that you could have gone via a portal like Lucky Rewards or Big Crumbs to get the Amex Cards, it has been up to 4% during the past year. You can go up to 4 levels of cashbacks and discounts in this game.

JudyJFLA

Still, what are AFT Cards? Been in the sticks all summer, coming back to a lot of changes
American Express for Target.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...in-cities.html
uncommonsensical is offline  
Old Oct 5, 2014, 5:33 pm
  #1049  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG & IHG Plat, & every airline program that I can join
Posts: 2,279
Thanks for the AFT description. Being gone to the hinterlands for 5 months a year causes me to have to start from scratch each fall and to have to get back up to speed.

JudyJFLA
JudyJFLA is offline  
Old Oct 6, 2014, 5:49 pm
  #1050  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by JudyJFLA
And with that you could have gone via a portal like Lucky Rewards or Big Crumbs to get the Amex Cards, it has been up to 4% during the past year. You can go up to 4 levels of cashbacks and discounts in this game.

JudyJFLA

Still, what are AFT Cards? Been in the sticks all summer, coming back to a lot of changes
4? I can think of how to get to 3: cashback > AGC > cashback > cardpool ( can you use AGC on carpool?) I'm counting the cashback > cardpool as 1 level since it's on 1 transaction. Are you counting it as 2, or is there 1 more level to mix in that I haven't thought of?
ShrinkingViolet is offline  

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