Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
#1036
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 415
My suggestion: Find a bank that you can afford to get shut down. Local credit union does just fine. That being said, many banks don't care about large cash deposits
#1037
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: IAD
Posts: 166
Get VGC using Amex blue 5% and do WM BP to Barclays.
For $2000 -
AFT - Load fees $6, ATM fees(4.5X5) $21.25, cashBack - $40, Net - $12.75
VGC - Fees - 5.95X4=23.8 + 1.88 BP fees = $25.68, Cashback - $100, Net - 74.32
Net Profit - $87.07
Does it make sense?
#1038
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 415
This is what I am thinking. Load AFT with Barclays. cash out and deposit.
Get VGC using Amex blue 5% and do WM BP to Barclays.
For $2000 -
AFT - Load fees $6, ATM fees(4.5X5) $21.25, cashBack - $40, Net - $12.75
VGC - Fees - 5.95X4=23.8 + 1.88 BP fees = $25.68, Cashback - $100, Net - 74.32
Net Profit - $87.07
Does it make sense?
Get VGC using Amex blue 5% and do WM BP to Barclays.
For $2000 -
AFT - Load fees $6, ATM fees(4.5X5) $21.25, cashBack - $40, Net - $12.75
VGC - Fees - 5.95X4=23.8 + 1.88 BP fees = $25.68, Cashback - $100, Net - 74.32
Net Profit - $87.07
Does it make sense?
#1040
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SFO
Programs: United Silver
Posts: 217
Thanks everyone for this thread - going to look into Serve and AFT as they seem the easiest approach at this time.
#1041
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG & IHG Plat, & every airline program that I can join
Posts: 2,279
JudyJFLA
#1042
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG & IHG Plat, & every airline program that I can join
Posts: 2,279
I will so Miss AP!!!
JudyJFLA
#1043
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,408
Why? I had an offer through Amex that allowed me to get the Amex GC with no fee if I used my AMex Cards.
#1045
#1046
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: UA, AA, AMEX MR
Posts: 111
If you load serve with a credit card online then withdraw money and deposit, is that a problem with the bank and cc company?
If you did that, that would be a lot of miles every year, right? Would that raise a red flag?
Oh, and what is AFT?
If you did that, that would be a lot of miles every year, right? Would that raise a red flag?
Oh, and what is AFT?
#1047
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG & IHG Plat, & every airline program that I can join
Posts: 2,279
JudyJFLA
Still, what are AFT Cards? Been in the sticks all summer, coming back to a lot of changes
#1048
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: a hotel room, somewhere...
Posts: 962
And with that you could have gone via a portal like Lucky Rewards or Big Crumbs to get the Amex Cards, it has been up to 4% during the past year. You can go up to 4 levels of cashbacks and discounts in this game.
JudyJFLA
Still, what are AFT Cards? Been in the sticks all summer, coming back to a lot of changes
JudyJFLA
Still, what are AFT Cards? Been in the sticks all summer, coming back to a lot of changes
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...in-cities.html
#1049
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG & IHG Plat, & every airline program that I can join
Posts: 2,279
Thanks for the AFT description. Being gone to the hinterlands for 5 months a year causes me to have to start from scratch each fall and to have to get back up to speed.
JudyJFLA
JudyJFLA
#1050
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 50
And with that you could have gone via a portal like Lucky Rewards or Big Crumbs to get the Amex Cards, it has been up to 4% during the past year. You can go up to 4 levels of cashbacks and discounts in this game.
JudyJFLA
Still, what are AFT Cards? Been in the sticks all summer, coming back to a lot of changes
JudyJFLA
Still, what are AFT Cards? Been in the sticks all summer, coming back to a lot of changes