Does Amex consider gift cards "cash equivalents"?
May 15, 2013, 8:15 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 269
Amex started denying rewards to purchase of reloads
Update: Now it's not a question of whether it hurts, but how much... Thanks BenH for his report at post #23: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/20872978-post23.html
Short summary is that at least 2 types of reloads (VR, MP) are not receiving cash rewards. Gift cards are still OK for now.
End of Update.
Just read from another thread that Amex is not giving cash rebate to "reload" cards. It's quite surprising that no discussion here. I checked the T&C in Amex site and indeed it is buried under "Terms and limitations apply" -- you have to click the tiny sign (†) to see it. (https://www.americanexpress.com/us/c...sh-back-cards/)
Now the question becomes whether gift cards are considered "cash equivalents"? It's quite chilling because in that same thread someone reported claw back of reward dollars by Amex (though for a different reason). What if one year later Amex wants you to return all the cash back because it's earns on "cash equivalents"?
Amex T&C (bold is mine):
Cash back is earned only on eligible purchases and is earned in the form of Blue Cash Reward DollarsSM (reward dollars). You can redeem reward dollars for statement credit, merchandise and gift cards, whenever your available reward dollars balance is 25 or more. The number of reward dollars you earn is based on a percentage of the dollar amount of your eligible purchases during each billing period.
Eligible Purchases means purchases for goods and services minus returns and other credits. Eligible purchases do NOT include fees or interest charges, balance transfers, cash advances, purchases of travelers checks, purchases or reloading of prepaid cards, or purchases of other cash equivalents. Additional terms and restrictions apply.
You will earn a reward of 3% on the first $6,000 of eligible purchases in an annual reward year at supermarkets located in the U.S. (superstores and warehouse clubs are not considered supermarkets). An annual reward year is 12 billing periods in a row starting with the one that begins in January; 2% on eligible purchases of gasoline at gas stations located in the U.S. (superstores, supermarkets and warehouse clubs that sell gasoline are not considered gas stations); 2% on eligible purchases at select department stores located in the U.S. (The current list of select major department stores at which you can earn a 2% reward is available at americanexpress.com/rewards-info); and 1% on all other eligible purchases.
Merchants are assigned codes based on what they primarily sell. A purchase will not earn a higher percentage reward if the merchant’s code is not eligible. Purchases made through a third-party payment account or on an online marketplace (with multiple retailers) will not earn a higher percentage reward. A purchase may not earn a higher percentage reward if the merchant submits the purchase using a mobile or wireless card reader or if you use a mobile or digital wallet.
Short summary is that at least 2 types of reloads (VR, MP) are not receiving cash rewards. Gift cards are still OK for now.
End of Update.
Just read from another thread that Amex is not giving cash rebate to "reload" cards. It's quite surprising that no discussion here. I checked the T&C in Amex site and indeed it is buried under "Terms and limitations apply" -- you have to click the tiny sign (†) to see it. (https://www.americanexpress.com/us/c...sh-back-cards/)
Now the question becomes whether gift cards are considered "cash equivalents"? It's quite chilling because in that same thread someone reported claw back of reward dollars by Amex (though for a different reason). What if one year later Amex wants you to return all the cash back because it's earns on "cash equivalents"?
Amex T&C (bold is mine):
Cash back is earned only on eligible purchases and is earned in the form of Blue Cash Reward DollarsSM (reward dollars). You can redeem reward dollars for statement credit, merchandise and gift cards, whenever your available reward dollars balance is 25 or more. The number of reward dollars you earn is based on a percentage of the dollar amount of your eligible purchases during each billing period.
Eligible Purchases means purchases for goods and services minus returns and other credits. Eligible purchases do NOT include fees or interest charges, balance transfers, cash advances, purchases of travelers checks, purchases or reloading of prepaid cards, or purchases of other cash equivalents. Additional terms and restrictions apply.
You will earn a reward of 3% on the first $6,000 of eligible purchases in an annual reward year at supermarkets located in the U.S. (superstores and warehouse clubs are not considered supermarkets). An annual reward year is 12 billing periods in a row starting with the one that begins in January; 2% on eligible purchases of gasoline at gas stations located in the U.S. (superstores, supermarkets and warehouse clubs that sell gasoline are not considered gas stations); 2% on eligible purchases at select department stores located in the U.S. (The current list of select major department stores at which you can earn a 2% reward is available at americanexpress.com/rewards-info); and 1% on all other eligible purchases.
Merchants are assigned codes based on what they primarily sell. A purchase will not earn a higher percentage reward if the merchant’s code is not eligible. Purchases made through a third-party payment account or on an online marketplace (with multiple retailers) will not earn a higher percentage reward. A purchase may not earn a higher percentage reward if the merchant submits the purchase using a mobile or wireless card reader or if you use a mobile or digital wallet.
Last edited by shel; Jun 10, 2013 at 11:03 am Reason: Update
May 15, 2013, 9:17 pm
#2
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: MCO
Programs: AA 1MM, BA, UA, HH Dia, CC Gold, SPG Plat
Posts: 795
It's not discussed further because it's not a concern.
/thread
May 16, 2013, 1:01 am
#4
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,708
Just read from another thread that Amex is not giving cash rebate to "reload" cards. It's quite surprising that no discussion here. I checked the T&C in Amex site and indeed it is buried under "Terms and limitations apply" -- you have to click the tiny sign (†) to see it. (https://www.americanexpress.com/us/c...sh-back-cards/)
Now the question becomes whether gift cards are considered "cash equivalents"? It's quite chilling because in that same thread someone reported claw back of reward dollars by Amex (though for a different reason). What if one year later Amex wants you to return all the cash back because it's earns on "cash equivalents"?
Now the question becomes whether gift cards are considered "cash equivalents"? It's quite chilling because in that same thread someone reported claw back of reward dollars by Amex (though for a different reason). What if one year later Amex wants you to return all the cash back because it's earns on "cash equivalents"?
May 16, 2013, 9:45 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 269
Anyway we are in unchartered water. Just be prepared someday Amex may want you to return $$$ that was "bank error" in your favor.
May 16, 2013, 9:53 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 269
Yes, gift cards are considered cash equivalents, and AMEX has had that wording in the fine print for a while. They could probably claw back the last several years rewards if they could tell what you were buying and if they felt like pursuing it. As it is now they don't know what you are buying and they have not been pursuing clawing back. They have handled it by putting a cap on the rewards your can earn.
Does Amex know what you are buying? No one is sure. For example, Discover knows your "cash back" and doesn't give rebate on it. Has Amex required grocery stores to break down the "cash equivalents"? I hope not.
May 17, 2013, 8:27 am
#8
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
I have read reports of cardholders being asked during telephone discussions if specific transactions were Vanilla Reloads, but there were no consequences. This does not mean that the terms will never be enforced as written.
American Express practice frequently differs from policy, and usually in the customers' favor, but if practice is later brought into alignment with policy it usually happens abruptly, and customer service then has no flexibility to make exceptions.
May 18, 2013, 8:51 am
#9
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 448
This language now appears in the terms of all USA-issued American Express personal cards. I do not recall any report of the terms being enforced as written. Have you?
I have read reports of cardholders being asked during telephone discussions if specific transactions were Vanilla Reloads, but there were no consequences. This does not mean that the terms will never be enforced as written.
American Express practice frequently differs from policy, and usually in the customers' favor, but if practice is later brought into alignment with policy it usually happens abruptly, and customer service then has no flexibility to make exceptions.
I have read reports of cardholders being asked during telephone discussions if specific transactions were Vanilla Reloads, but there were no consequences. This does not mean that the terms will never be enforced as written.
American Express practice frequently differs from policy, and usually in the customers' favor, but if practice is later brought into alignment with policy it usually happens abruptly, and customer service then has no flexibility to make exceptions.
May 18, 2013, 8:54 am
#10
Join Date: Apr 2013
Programs: UA MPE, BA Blue, AA, IHG Plat Amb, Marriot Silver, HHonors Silver, National Exec, Avis First
Posts: 553
Yes, gift cards are considered cash equivalents, and AMEX has had that wording in the fine print for a while. They could probably claw back the last several years rewards if they could tell what you were buying and if they felt like pursuing it. As it is now they don't know what you are buying and they have not been pursuing clawing back. They have handled it by putting a cap on the rewards your can earn.
May 31, 2013, 2:11 pm
#13
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: CO, UA, AA, WN, DL Gold
Posts: 2,981
liquidate Amex gift card?
Well, I've searched and searched. I can't find the answer to the simple question in the post title. Can you turn Amex Gift card into cash? Is there any way to load them into BlueBird?
Thanks
Thanks
May 31, 2013, 2:19 pm
#14
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 809
I heard that Amex was not affected by the law that required Visa/MC GC's to start issuing PINs. So without a PIN, you cant load it to BB.