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MH370 KUL-PEK Missing 8 Mar 2014: Search & Recovery [PLEASE SEE WIKI]

Old Mar 7, 2014, 7:56 pm
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MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread is now open to keep this thread focused on confirmed news and known facts, and to allow folks to discuss their ideas about what might have happened

Archived older posts:

MH 370 KUL-PEK Missing: 8 - 15 Mar 2014 UTC - ARCHIVE WEEK #1

MH 370 KUL-PEK Missing: 15 - 21 Mar 2014 UTC - ARCHIVE WEEK #2

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS / FAQ has been inserted into Post #1 of this thread.

Malaysia Airlines has provided the following contact numbers for passengers' families: +603 7884 1234 (Kuala Lumpur) or +8610 6437 6249 (Beijing)

This thread now begins with posts made after 0536 UTC 22 March 2014..

N.B. Please do not alter the above message.

• • • • •


WIKIPOST

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Signed-in members with 90 days / 90 posts on FlyerTalk may edit this Wikipost with updates.


Please report all times in UTC - Coordinated Universal Time (GMT - Greenwich Mean Time, Z - Zulu time) in order to
avoid confusion caused by complex time zone boundaries in the incident area.

SUMMARY: MH370 departed Kuala Lumpur for Beijing with 227 passengers and 12 crew early morning March 8 2014. After what appeared to be a normal departure, a handoff to Vietnamese ATC was not finalized - communications and secondary radar data no longer were transmitted. The aircraft has been assumed to fly on for 7 hours on an initially circuitous route and to have been lost at sea in the southern Indian Ocean, 1,500 mi / 2,500 km sw of Perth.

No operating theory has been put forth that provides a probable explanation of who has flown the aircraft nor for what possible purpose as of 27 March. Link to BBC written and video summary of the flight of MH370.
LATEST NEWS

In reverse chronological order:

*All times regarding activities within the search area are expressed in Australian Western Standard Time (AWST). Please note all times are approximate.

Sunday, 8 March 2015

On the first anniversary of the disappearance of MH370 an interim report was released by Malaysia's Ministry of Transport.
http://mh370.mot.gov.my/

Friday, 11 April 2014 - pm AWST (JACC)

The Chief Coordinator of the Joint Agency Coordination Centre, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston (Ret'd), said an initial assessment of the possible signal detected by a RAAF AP-3C Orion aircraft yesterday afternoon has been determined as not related to an aircraft underwater locator beacon.

Friday, 11 April 2014 (BBC and other sources)

Australian leader Tony Abbott says authorities are confident that signals heard in the Indian Ocean are coming from the "black box" flight recorders of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane. Link

Thursday, 10 April 2014 - pm AWST (JACC)

The Chief Coordinator of the Joint Agency Coordination Centre, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston (Ret'd), has confirmed that whilst conducting an acoustic search this afternoon a RAAF AP-3C Orion aircraft has detected a possible signal in the vicinity of the Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shield.

"The acoustic data will require further analysis overnight but shows potential of being from a man-made source," Air Chief Marshal Houston (Ret'd) said.

"I will provide a further update if, and when, further information becomes available."


Shape of ocean floor / Profile of sea bed between signals (2 and 1) - BBC


Wednesday, 9 April 2014 (BBC)

An Australian vessel heard the signals again on Tuesday afternoon and evening.

Signals heard earlier had also been further analysed by experts who concluded they were from "specific electronic equipment".

Experts at the Australian Joint Acoustic Analysis Centre had also analysed the first two signals heard over the weekend.

Their analysis showed that a "stable, distinct and clear signal" was detected. Experts had therefore assessed that it was not of natural origin and was likely from specific electronic equipment.

Wednesday, 9 April 2014—am AWST (JACC)

Up to 11 military aircraft, four civil aircraft and 14 ships will assist in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Today AMSA has planned a search area of about 75,423 square kilometres.

The centre of the search area is approximately 2261 kilometres north west of Perth.

A weak front is moving in from the south east, expected to bring scattered showers.

The underwater search continues today, with ADV Ocean Shield at the northern end of the defined search area, and Chinese ship Haixun 01 and HMS Echo at the southern end.

Tuesday, 8 April 2014—am AWST (JACC)

Up to eleven military planes, three civil planes and 14 ships will assist in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

AMSA has directed the search of one large search area today of approximately 77,580 square kilometres, 2268 kilometres north west of Perth.

Good weather is expected for searching throughout the day.

The underwater search continues, with ADV Ocean Shield at the northern end of the defined search area, and Chinese ship Haixun 01 and HMS Echo at the southern end.

Monday, 7 April 2014

An Australian military vessel has detected signals consistent with those emitted by an aircraft black box, indicating a potential breakthrough in the search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Two separate signals have been detected by Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shield in the northern part of the search area.

In what he called "a most promising lead", Air Chief Marshal (ret) Angus Houston revealed that "the pinger locator has detected signals consistent with those emitted by aircraft black boxes". (Sydney Morning Herald, and others)

Monday, 7 April 2014—am AWST (JACC)

Up to nine military planes, three civil planes and 14 ships will assist in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

The search area is expected to be approximately 234,000 square kilometres.

Good weather is expected throughout the day with showers in the afternoon although this is not expected to affect the search.

ADV Ocean Shield is continuing investigations in its own area.

HMS Echo is en route to assist the Chinese vessel Haixun 01, which detected pulse signals in the Indian Ocean.

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau continues to refine the area where the aircraft entered the water based on continuing ground-breaking and multi-disciplinary technical analysis of satellite communication and aircraft performance, passed from the international air crash investigative team comprising analysts from Malaysia, the United States, the UK, China and Australia.

Retired Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston (JACC dirrector): "This is an important and encouraging lead". BBC Video.
Sunday, 6 April 2014—am AWST(JACC)

Up to 10 military planes, 2 civil planes and 13 ships will assist in Sunday's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

The Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA) has three separate search areas planned for today about 2,000 kilometres north west of Perth, which total approximately 216,000 square kilometres.

Weather in the search area is expected to be good with a cloud base of 2,500 feet and visibility greater than 10 kilometres.

Reports overnight that the Chinese ship, Haixun 01, has detected electronic pulse signals in the Indian Ocean related to MH370 cannot be verified at this point in time.

Saturday 5 April 2014:

The Chinese maritime patrol ship Haixun 01 has picked up a 37.5 kHz pulse signal, according to Chinese media. Though there is no evidence it is from the MH370 "black box", the frequency is the same as used by fight recorders. (Xinhuanet, others)

5 April 2014—am - (JACC)

~10 military planes, three civil jets and 11 ships participated in today's search. ADV Ocean Shield and HMS Echo continued underwater search operations searching with TPL-25 towed pinger locator.

Weather was fair, with possible showers.

Friday 4 April 2014—JACC

Up to 10 military planes, four civil jets and nine ships participated in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370. One civil aircraft operated to provide communications relay.

The weather was is fair, with visibility approximately 10 kilometres and a cloud base between 1000 and 2000 feet.

Two ships, the HMAS Ocean Shield and HMS Echo, towed TPL-25 "towed pinger locators" to search for the "black box" 37.5 kHz signal; the "black box" (Flight Data and Cockpit Voice Recorder assembly) is powered for approximately 30 days.

Thursday 3 April 2014—am JACC

Up to eight planes (one dropping marker buoys) and nine ships were deployed on the SAR mission, an area of about 223,000 square kilometres, 1680 kilometres west north-west of Perth. Weather fair, with visibility approximately 10 kilometres, however the southern area may experience some isolated showers. No new findings today.

Wednesday, 2 April 2014 - JACC

Up to ten planes (one providing relay services) and nine ships will assist in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370. AMSA search area about 221,000 square kilometres,1504 kilometres North West of Perth.

British nuclear-powered Trafalgar class submarine HMS Tireless , with 138 crew including 18 officers, has joined the hunt for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370; the UK MOD has said it would assist in searchng for the "black box". (BBC)

Monday, 31 March: (AMSA Update #31, 8.00am (AEDT) 0000 UTC

10 aircraft searching, no notable results. The ADV Ocean Shield was scheduled to depart from Perth today. It has now been fitted with a black box detector and an autonomous underwater vehicle. Some parts of the search area will experience low cloud and rain throughout the day.

Sunday, March 30, 2014 AEDT: The search activities continued in an area about 1,850 kilometres west of Perth, focused on an area of about 319,000 square kilometres. Eight aircraft were involved in today’s search.

Ten ships arrived or were on station today: HMAS Success, the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration ship Haixun 01, China Rescue and Salvage Bureau ship Nan Hai Jiu, and the Chinese Navy vessel Jinggang Shan.All ships in the search area were tasked to locate and identify the objects sighted by aircraft over the past two days.

Weather in the search area included light showers and low cloud, though search operations are expected to continue.

AMSA Update #28, 30 March 2014: 0645(AEDT)

Debris spotted and identified by ship turned out to be fishing debris - a fishing vessel is missing and the search for the vessel has now been discontinued after finding the debris. - AMSA

Saturday, March 29, HMAS Success, the Chinese Maritime Administration patrol ship, Haixun 01, PLAN vessel Jinggangshan (carrying two helicopters) were active Saturday; the later specifically is searching for debris, oil slicks, lifejackets, etc. Eight aircraft were also launched today. A IL-76 from China spotted some small colourful debris (orange, white and red), dropped a marker and left the debris to be checked by ship - the debris, recovered and checked by Haixun 01, was not related to MH370. Weather began nicely but has been deteriorating today; the search day is over now. (National News Agency of Malaysia, BBC and others.)

The ANZAC class frigate HMAS Toowoomba left Perth this evening and is due to arrive in the search area in about three days.

Friday March 28 local time end of search day: Ten aircraft searched an area of nearly 100,000 sq mi / 256,000 sq km today. Five aircraft spotted debris in the new search area; another aircraft spotted debris 546 km away.
AMSA announcement PDF

The search area has shifted northeastward ~1,100 km / 700 mi based on the theory the aircraft was flying faster than previously believed (skewing the imputed flight path and decreasing range based on available fuel). The new search area is approximately 123,127 sq mi / 319,000 sq km and around 1,150 mi / 1,850 km west of Perth. Satellites are being redeployed to survey the new search area. (Aviation Herald, Malay Mail online and others; BBC article link)

The Malaysian government is expected to appoint an international panel on aviation security along with a parliament select committee to probe overall airline safety... an official said in Kuala Lumpur on Saturday (29 Mar 2014).

Tuesday, 26 Mar, search activities were halted by Sea State 7; resumed Wednesday, Thursday 28 Mar again saw aircraft withdrawn from search activities.

If potential debris is spotted by satellite, further identification must be done by aircraft, and then recovered by ships for analysis. If debris proves positive from MH370, further analysis must determine drift distance and angle to a possible crash site. This all depends on the weather holding as well, though at least the search is no longer focused in the "Roaring Forties".

Soon, a US Navy Towed Pinger Locator will be towed by the HMAS Ocean Shield to try to detect "pings" from the aircraft's "black box", which is actually orange and consists of the Cockpit Voice Recorder (two hour loop) and Flight Data Recorder (25 hours continuous).
● BBC page on "black box" link
● BBC video "black box" search link.

If air and sea search fails, or further narrowing of the search area is required, sonar will be deployed and used. Support and research vessels, some of them with sonar and one with the U. S. autonomous underwater Bluefin 21, will then try to find the wreck amongst the sea bottom topography.
BBC sonar search video link.

Information reveals that Malaysia Airlines chose not to add an upgrade to aircraft communications ("Swift") that could have continually transmitted aircraft data even with ACARS shut down. Rather than pay the cost of USD $10.90 per flight, MH opted to download the data to a USB thumb drive after the end of a flight, according to various sources. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...f19_story.html

Monday, 24 March, Malaysian prime minister announced that new satellite data showed that flight MH370 crashed into the Indian Ocean. In a brief statement he said: "It is with deep sadness and regret that I must inform you that... flight MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean." The ongoing multinational search operation would continue as they seek answers to the questions which remain.

Partners Inmarsat and SITA AIRCOM, UK and US aviation safety and security officials have determined MH370 may have flown up to seven hours beyond the point of last radar location; MH370 apparently broadcast automated hourly engine maintenance code "pings" received by satellite operator Inmarsat.

New satellite analysis techniques developed by British firm Inmarsat and the UK's Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) have "concluded that MH370 flew along the southern corridor, and that its last position was in the middle of the Indian Ocean", said Malaysian PM Najib Razak.

"This is a remote location, far from any possible landing sites. It is therefore with deep sadness and regret that I must inform you that, according to this new data, flight MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean."

Debris is being searched for, but the USA is sending a Towed Pinger Locator towed sled equipped to find "pingers" such as the "black box" pinger, which is designed to be powered for 25 - 30 days.

A number of aircraft, including four long range commercial planes, three RAAF and one RNZAF P-3 Orion anti-submarine surveillance aircraft, one USN P8 Poseidon, two Chinese IL-76 and two JASDF P-3 Orion aircraft are searching, joined by a Korean (ROKAF) P-3 Orion and C-130H. The ASW aircraft have observation ports for observers, Magnetic Anomaly Detector gear and can deploy various sonobuoys, etc.

Chinese, British and Australian naval ships have joined Australian supply ship HMAS Success, including China's ice-breaking Xuě Lóng (Snow Dragon) research vessel, (involved in the recent Antarctic rescue of the MV Akademik Shokalskiy) and three Chinese PLAN warships QianDaoHu, KunLunShan and Haikou, as well as merchant ship Zhonghai Shaohua, are participants as well. The U.K. is sending HMS Echo to join the search (has departed the Maldives), China is sending more vessels.

The HMAS Ocean Shield will be fitted on 28 Mar with the US "TPL" (Towed Pinger Locator) and "...is expected to reach the search area by 5 April, giving it only two days before the pinger's batteries possibly start to fade at 30 days."

The US is sending a UUV (autonomous unmanned underwater vehicle) Bluefin-21, designed by Bluefin Robotics, equipped with side-scanning sonar and a "multi-beam echo sounder" which can examine underwater objects in detail and operate in depths of up to 4,500 metres (14,700 ft) (BBC).

Malaysia has asked the FBI to help recover data it said was deleted from a home flight simulator belonging to the plane's chief pilot, Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, but otherwise no evidence has emerged to implicate him or the crew. FBI announced on 26 Mar a couple of more days are needed, but so far they have found no forensic evidence against Capt. Zaharie.
Last updated: Friday April 11 0915 UTC / 1715 AWST (changes made since 00:01 Thursday UTC are in highlighted text) or indigo.
Please continue to use indigo text to highlight your changes until the next maintenance period (after ~00:01 UTC Friday).

Summary of events in the FAQ (Post #1) and what we think we know as of 14 Mar, 1727 UTC in this post.

EXTERNAL SOURCES


Aviation Herald — possibly the best and most objective summary in general, latest updates are highlighted in yellow — last updated on Sunday, Apr 6, 2014 at 11:40 UTC.

MH370 Flight Incident - official announcements by Malaysia Airlines

BBC tabbed pages with newest news of the MH370 incident

BBC: Ten Theories of MH370's Disappearance

Malaysian Prime Minister's statement that MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean, March 24, 2014 Youtube video

Live updates (Yahoo News Singapore)

Streaming news (WSJ)

Reuters graphics: story, search and emergency

How a pilot deals with an emergency. (BBC, Capt. Philip Riddell <spelling in conflict with BBC>)

Summary of events, known information and technical background Airliners.net

THREAD SUMMARY
Please Edit and Update as Needed! Please Use Indigo Text to Highlight Changes!

NOTE: While links to relevant and reasonably reliable news sources are welcome, please take a few minutes to scroll back a couple dozen posts to make sure a similar story hasn't already been posted. There have been many well-meaning posters eager to share “breaking news” that ends up having been posted by others hours before. Thanks for helping us to avoid redundancy and repetition!

Time Frame Confusion

Sources may appear to be reporting conflicting timeframes for various stages of the incident. However, this is likely due to confusion about time zone changes between Malaysia (last ATC contact) and Vietnam (next ATC contact) - see time zone map here for boundaries. Please report times in UTC/GMT wherever possible.

SAR / Search and Rescue Recovery Operations Investigation

NOTE: Discussion of opinions and perspectives on SAR costs and timeliness, which involves coordination of 26 nations' civil and military authorities, is beyond the scope of this thread. Users have been advised to shift such discussion to OMNI - see post #2047. Thanks for your cooperation.

Reports indicate latest satellite ping around 0811 MYT (0011 GMT/UTC/Zulu), or nearly 7 hours after contact was lost.

Boeing and Rolls Royce have teams on site; the NTSB (USA) and UK AAIB are involved due to US and UK manufacture of aircraft and engines, France's BEA due to AF447 similarities and other resources are likely to be invited to assist. The U. S. FBI has become involved in investigating the crew, passengers and ground staff.

Reports that the aircraft climbed to 45,000 feet, above its service ceiling, and as low as 5,000 ft remain unverified. More here and in posts #3894 on.

Malaysia Airlines has issued a statement that the shipment of lithium-ion batteries was in compliance with the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and the International Air Transport Association (IATA) requirements, where it is classified as "non-dangerous goods".

Disproven Reports to Date

Early reports that the plane had landed in Nanming, Vietnam or Nanning, China, have been disclaimed by Chinese authorities and MH leadership.

All reports of possible aircraft debris, up to and including a possible debris field off the southeast coast of Vietnam, China SASTIND satellite imagery from 9 Mar debris reported 105.63 east longitude, 6.7 north latitude investigated 12 Mar have been discredited. The latter is now "a mistake", according to SASTIND. Read more here.

Possible fuel slicks identified early on have been tested and determined NOT to be aircraft fuel.

Various life rafts found in the SAR ops area have been unrelated to the missing aircraft. See one example at this post.

Reports of another pilot contacting MH370 have been discredited.

Reports of passenger cell phones still ringing when called are almost certainly an artifact of international telephony - see explanation by one FTer at post #1832.

All claimed ground observations of the aircraft (Malaysia, Vietnam oil platform, etc.) data are unverified at this time.

Beware of data from sites like FlightRadar24, FlightAware, etc. These data are not entirely reliable, as they are synthesized; erroneous readings may be present on some sites. The aircraft could not climb to 49,500 feet as some sites may indicate, as this is considerably above the aircraft's design ceiling.

Authorities deny that five other passengers checked in for the flight, but did not board, stating the pax were actually no-shows who never checked in, and that no baggage was loaded for these five pax. Four standby passengers were accommodated.

Reports of seismic readings being possibly related to the aircraft crashing into seafloor have been described by experts as improbable. USGS records a natural earthquake off the west coast of Sumatra - info here

Other speculation (EMP, shot down, etc.) has been mentioned in the thread but currently has no basis, and is not appropriate for this thread. Please observe the moderator note at the beginning of this wiki.

Timeline/Facts (Please see FAQ / Post #1)

NOTE: flight number MH370/371 will be renumbered MH318/319 effective 14 March 2014
!!! REMINDER !!!

This thread is about the loss of MH370. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:

OMNI/PR: Discussion of perspectives on politics and religion, including geopolitics and terrorism (requires 180 days on FT and 180 constructive posts prior to admission)

Travel Safety/Security: Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate

Travel Safety/Security: Practical Travel Safety Issues for those discussing travel safety and security issues because they are planning a trip soon.

TravelBuzz: TravelBuzz for those wishing to discuss the relative safety of a specific aircraft - e.g. Boeing 777.

We have a number of Destination fora to discuss various aspects of destination travel (including airports, airport connections, etc.)
MAPS, IMAGERY, GRAPHICS

Please try to re-size your pictures to fit the normal width. We have had several folks (particularly, but not exclusively, those on mobile devices) request that the size of graphics be "normal."


Area of debris sightings and search
The original map was posted on BBC website but is too large to post here.


Ministry of Transport Malaysia:
INFORMATION PROVIDED TO MH370 INVESTIGATION BY UK AIR ACCIDENTS INVESTIGATION BRANCH (AAIB)



This diagram shows the Doppler contributions to the burst frequency offset.


Blue line: the burst frequency offset measured at the ground station for MH370.

Green line: is the predicted burst frequency offset for the southern route, which over the last 6 handshakes show close correlation with the measured values for MH370.

Red line: predicted burst frequency offset for northern route (which over last 6 ACARS - Inmarsat "handshakes" does not correlate with the measured values for MH370).


Archived maps

Map with calculated tracks (contribution by Reason077)
Nrg800 map showing runways within range, line of possible ping transmission and range limit from last radio contact.
See posts #4145 and #4163 for more info.


ADV Ocean Shield towed pinger locator detections - JACC

Signals detected by Chinese (5 April) and Australians (6 April) - BBC
Locations where signals were detected
Search area and location where possible signal detected, 6 April 2014 (BBC)
Search area and location where possible signal detected, 5 April 2014 (BBC)
Search area, 4 April 2014 (BBC)
Searach area, 2 April 2014 (BBC)
Search area, 1 April 2014 (BBC)
Search area, 30 March 2014 (BBC)
New search area, 28 March 2014 (BBC)
Detailed map of area of debris sightings and in original Indo-Australian search area (BBC)
Area of debris sightings
How big is the search area?
BBC map of search zones

BBC area and key events map
BBC possible final aircraft track map

NOTE: SEE FAQ (POST #1 - click to pop up in separate window) FOR FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS AND REPLIES, OTHER LINKS TO RESOURCES AND PREVIOUS GRAPHICS FROM THIS WIKI.
Print Wikipost

MH370 KUL-PEK Missing 8 Mar 2014: Search & Recovery [PLEASE SEE WIKI]

Old Apr 2, 2014, 1:06 am
  #181  
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Missing plane MH370: Malaysia mystery 'may not be solved'

Malaysia has warned that the reasons for the Malaysia Airlines plane's disappearance may never be known, as Prime Minister Najib Razak heads to Australia for talks on the search.

Malaysia's police chief said that their investigation could "go on and on".

... Malaysian police chief Khalid Abu Bakar said the criminal investigation could "go on and on and on. We have to clear every little thing."

"At the end of the investigations, we may not even know the real cause. We may not even know the reason for this incident," he said.

He added that police had "cleared" all the passengers of the four key areas being investigated: hijacking, sabotage, and psychological and personal problems, Malaysia's Bernama news agency reported.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26847402
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Old Apr 2, 2014, 7:50 am
  #182  
 
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Originally Posted by NewbieRunner
He added that police had "cleared" all the passengers of the four key areas being investigated: hijacking, sabotage, and psychological and personal problems, Malaysia's Bernama news agency reported.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26847402
There is no known (or unknown, in my opinion) forensic approach to "clear" 200+ people of psychological and personal problems.

Last edited by NewbieRunner; Apr 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm Reason: format quote correctly
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Old Apr 2, 2014, 9:53 am
  #183  
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Associated Press reporters Eileen Ng and Nick Perry have written a story stating, in part:

An aviation industry group is creating a task force to make recommendations this year for continuously tracking commercial airliners because "we cannot let another aircraft simply vanish" like Malaysia Airlines Flight 370...


The aviation mystery has highlighted the need for improvements in tracking aircraft and security, according to the International Air Transport Association, a trade association for the world's airlines meeting in Kuala Lumpur.

"In a world where our every move seems to be tracked, there is disbelief that an aircraft could simply disappear," said Tony Tyler, the director general of the group whose 240 member airlines carry 84 percent of all passengers and cargo worldwide.

and

But the Air Line Pilots Association, the world's biggest pilot union, warned that live-streaming of information from the flight data recorder, as an alternative to the current black boxes, could lead to the release or leak of clues that could make pilots look bad before all the facts about an accident are known.

"That data is there for safety analysis," said Sean Cassidy, an ALPA officer and a pilot with Alaska Airlines. "Unfortunately, if you have this massive wave of data that's getting out there — if it's not safeguarded and protected — there's going to be a real rush to judgment, especially towards the pilots in event of an accident."

and

In Washington, (Rep. David Price) a congressman is considering introducing a bill that would require the installation of second black box as a backup measure on new commercial passenger aircraft that are used on longer flights, over oceans or in remote locations. The devices, known as deployable flight recorders, would eject before a crash to make them easier to find, and can be designed to float and transmit a signal to searchers.

and

(Tony) Tyler, the IATA director general, also urged improvements in screening passengers before boarding.
Well, positions are certainly being taken up quickly.

As well, Australia is dedicating a Boeing 737 variant to provide in-air Air Traffic Control for the search aircraft.

Wednesday (search local time) proved another fruitless day, according to (ABC News): Flight Lieutenant Dave O'Brien, captain of an Australian P-3 Orion that arrived back after dark Wednesday at base Pearce near Perth, said it was another fruitless day of searching despite favorable weather and sea conditions.

"We didn't see anything at all of interest," he said. "So a fairly quiet day for us out there. However, we are back out tomorrow to try it all again."

Last edited by JDiver; Apr 2, 2014 at 10:32 am
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Old Apr 2, 2014, 12:38 pm
  #184  
 
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…the Air Line Pilots Association, the world's biggest pilot union, warned that live-streaming of information from the flight data recorder, as an alternative to the current black boxes, could lead to the release or leak of clues that could make pilots look bad before all the facts about an accident are known.
The ALPA should be on board with this. More data will protect those pilots who do their jobs correctly, and they should have nothing to fear (a rush to judgement is inevitable in any such incident, and I'm sure most pilots know that already).

I wonder if the ALPA would agree that it was good that MH370 lacked this capability.
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Old Apr 2, 2014, 5:52 pm
  #185  
 
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Originally Posted by JDiver
Associated Press reporters Eileen Ng and Nick Perry have written a story stating, in part:



Well, positions are certainly being taken up quickly.

As well, Australia is dedicating a Boeing 737 variant to provide in-air Air Traffic Control for the search aircraft.

Wednesday (search local time) proved another fruitless day, according to (ABC News): Flight Lieutenant Dave O'Brien, captain of an Australian P-3 Orion that arrived back after dark Wednesday at base Pearce near Perth, said it was another fruitless day of searching despite favorable weather and sea conditions.

"We didn't see anything at all of interest," he said. "So a fairly quiet day for us out there. However, we are back out tomorrow to try it all again."
More data may, but doesn't always, translate to or better outcomes. I'd think that some careful analyses of possible solutions, pros and cons, would be warranted before rushing to recommend something, on the part of the various interest groups.

When they talk about a deployable black box that ejects before a crash... dumb question, but how would the system (automatically, I presume?) know that the plane is about to crash, as opposed to say a hard landing or intentional but safe maneuver?
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Old Apr 2, 2014, 9:58 pm
  #186  
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[JACC] Media Release
2 April 2014—pm

On April 2, 10 aircraft and nine ships searched an area of about 237,000 square kilometres, about 1500kms west north-west of Perth.

There were no sightings reported of any objects related to the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Weather in the search area was fair, with visibility of approximately 10 kilometres.

Australia welcomes the United Kingdom joining the search. Royal Navy submarine HMS Tireless has been tasked to assist in the search for flight MH370 as part of the international effort.

HMS Tireless, a Trafalgar Class submarine, has arrived in the southern Indian Ocean to assist with the search.

With her advanced underwater search capability, HMS Tireless will be a valuable contribution to the search for the missing plane.

Additionally, HMS Echo is in the search area to assist in efforts to locate the transponder on the black box.

She will also play an important role in the search for debris on the ocean surface and her advanced environmental assessment capability will help to optimise search operations.

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau continues to refine the area where the aircraft entered the water based on continuing ground-breaking and multi-disciplinary technical analysis of satellite communication and aircraft performance, passed from the international air crash investigative team comprising analysts from Malaysia, the United States, the UK, China and Australia.
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Old Apr 2, 2014, 10:00 pm
  #187  
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[JACC] Media Release
3 April 2014—am

Up to eight planes and nine ships will assist in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

The Australian Maritime Safety Authority has determined a search area of about 223,000 square kilometres, 1680 kilometres west north-west of Perth.

Eight military planes will assist in the search. One of these planes will be tasked to drop self locating datum marker buoys within the search area. The first aircraft departed for the search area at 6am WST.

Nine ships have been tasked to search.

The weather forecast for today's search is fair, with visibility approximately 10 kilometres, however the southern area may experience some isolated showers.

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau continues to refine the area where the aircraft entered the water based on continuing ground-breaking and multi-disciplinary technical analysis of satellite communication and aircraft performance, passed from the international air crash investigative team comprising analysts from Malaysia, the United States, the UK, China and Australia.
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Old Apr 3, 2014, 7:49 pm
  #188  
 
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Todays JACC announcement: http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/release...ril/mr006.aspx

Media Release
4 April 2014—am

Up to 10 military planes, four civil jets and nine ships will assist in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

The Australian Maritime Safety Authority has determined a search area of about 217,000 square kilometres, 1700 kilometres north west of Perth.

Today's search area will focus on three areas within the same vicinity.

The first aircraft will depart for the search area at 6am Western Standard Time (WST).

A total of 26 State Emergency Service (SES) volunteers from Western Australia, New South Wales and Victoria will work as air observers on three of the civil aircraft. The other civil aircraft will operate as a communications relay.

The weather forecast for today's search is fair, with visibility approximately 10 kilometres and a cloud base between 1000 and 2000 feet.

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau continues to refine the area where the aircraft entered the water based on continuing ground-breaking and multi-disciplinary technical analysis of satellite communication and aircraft performance, passed from the international air crash investigative team comprising analysts from Malaysia, the United States, the UK, China and Australia.

Last edited by NewbieRunner; Apr 4, 2014 at 11:37 am Reason: inserted map
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 11:30 am
  #189  
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JACC Media Release: Pinger locator equipment commences operation

Media Release
4 April 2014

The Royal Australian Navy and Royal Navy have today commenced a sub-surface search for emissions from the black-box pinger from Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Using the Towed Pinger Locator (TPL) from the United States Navy on Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shield and a similar capability on HMS Echo, the two ships will search a single 240 kilometre track, converging on each other.

This will be the first time that a sub-surface search will have been conducted in the search, in an attempt to detect the signal from the black-box of MH370.

The Commander of Joint Task Force 658, Commodore Peter Leavy, said the two ships and their towed-pinger equipment would be operating at significantly reduced speed to search at depths of three thousand metres or more.

“There has not been any change in the search,” Commodore Leavy said.

“No hard evidence has been found to date so we have made the decision to search a sub-surface area on which the analysis has predicted MH370 is likely to have flown.

“While the preference for search operations is to use physical evidence and then drift modelling to determine a smaller sub-surface search area, the search track is considered to be the best estimate possible for an area likely to contain the crashed aircraft.

“The equipment on Australian Defence Vessel (ADV) Ocean Shield and HMS Echo can only operate effectively at reduced speed, around three knots.

“The search using sub-surface equipment needs to be methodical and carefully executed in order to effectively detect the faint signal of the pinger.”

Functionality tests were carried out on the TPL, Autonomous Underwater Vehicle (AUV) and transducer pole to prove its effectiveness during transit to the search area. All the acoustic sensors, GPS positioning, tracking and frequency systems and positioning of the equipment completed a functionality test.
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 11:31 am
  #190  
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JACC Search update

Media Release
4 April 2014—pm

Today there have been some sightings of objects reported by ships in the search area but none were associated with MH370 (as at 1900 AEDT).

The Royal Australian Navy, using the Towed Pinger Locator from the United States Navy on Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shield, and the Royal Navy, with a similar capability on HMS Echo, today began the underwater search for emissions from the black-box pinger from Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

A total of 14 aircraft and 11 ships were involved in today's search activities.

The Australian Maritime Safety Authority determined a search area of about 217,000 square kilometres, 1700 kilometres North West of Perth.

Weather in the search area was good, with visibility greater than 10 kilometres.
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 3:35 pm
  #191  
 
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When will this search be called off? Is there a limit to how much time, effort and expense with not a stitch of debris found yet?
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 3:47 pm
  #192  
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Originally Posted by tryathlete
When will this search be called off? Is there a limit to how much time, effort and expense with not a stitch of debris found yet?
Perth (Australia) (AFP) - Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak vowed Thursday "we will not rest" until the fate of flight MH370 is known, as Australia called it "the most difficult search in human history".
...
"We want to find answers. We want to provide comfort to the families and we will not rest until answers are indeed found," Najib said, as he thanked those involved in the eight-nation search.
...

Australia has far more experience than Malaysia of rescue operations, routinely monitoring huge tracts of ocean, but Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the current search was the toughest ever.

"Every day, working on the basis of just small pieces of information, we are putting the jigsaw together. And every day we have a higher degree of confidence that we know more about what happened to this ill-fated flight," he said.

"It is a very difficult search, the most difficult in human history, but as far as Australia is concerned we are throwing everything we have at it."
http://news.yahoo.com/malaysian-pm-p...000805193.html
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 3:57 pm
  #193  
 
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Originally Posted by tryathlete
When will this search be called off? Is there a limit to how much time, effort and expense with not a stitch of debris found yet?
I wrote an editorial piece 2 weeks ago speaking to that issue. I'll just mention that it's 80 years since Amelia Earhart's plane crashed and we still haven't found it yet.

The Search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370: How Long is Too Long?
Preparations for the flight, boarding, and take-off, and the first hour of the flight itself, were largely unremarkable, in dramatic contrast to the very remarkable over two- week-long search for the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 that departed Kuala Lumpur on March 8 and never reached its destination in Beijing.

While some searches do sporadically go on forever (the case of Amelia Earhart comes to mind), it is worth noting that the original search for Earhart and her Lockheed Electra aircraft ended in failure roughly two weeks after she disappeared. At a cost of $4 million, or roughly $64 million today adjusting for inflation, the air and sea search by the U.S. Navy and Coast Guard was the most costly and extensive in U.S. history up to that point.

With scant leads and even less progress in the case of MH370, the question of how long the search should go on is starting to be raised.....

<SNIP>
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 4:14 pm
  #194  
 
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Originally Posted by jspira
I wrote an editorial piece 2 weeks ago speaking to that issue. I'll just mention that it's 80 years since Amelia Earhart's plane crashed and we still haven't found it yet.
It's been like 60 years since Northwest Orient plane is missing over Lake Michigan, and I doubt they are searching for it unlike we do for Earhart's plane.
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 5:55 pm
  #195  
 
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Originally Posted by tryathlete
When will this search be called off? Is there a limit to how much time, effort and expense with not a stitch of debris found yet?
There will be a period specified by the international SAR agreements if a owner country (Malaysia in this case) requests it or until the owner country removes the request but it is up to the discretion of the participating country (Australia in this case) to continue beyond that point. Some might on their own or work out an arrangement with the owner country to be reimbursed. It depends a lot on how much the owner country can afford financially and how much they think they ought to do before calling it off without being condemned by other countries (not affected relatives) as too soon. So, there really is no fixed time. It is a difficult decision.

Most likely, we have reached the point where Malaysia will terminate most operations after it is clear the locator batteries will have died by then and if the Australians have no justifiable new search areas without further signs in the current operations. They will let countries that want to try out their best toys under the sea do so voluntarily and provide some logistics support to them.

We will likely have some announcements by Apr 8 since the locator batteries will not be working past that point.
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