I have been bitterly disappointed with the Four Seasons Las Vegas and the Ritz Carlton Central Park in NYC in recent stays.
Funny how opinions differ. I thought the FS in Vegas was a decent enough property.
For what its worth, I've had a couple of bad experiences in luxury properties. The Pulitzer in Amsterdam was just not worth the money and the Polana in Maputo Mozambique is typical of an old European type property that needs money spent on it and is living on its reputation.
In an earlier thread somebody mentioned the Mandarin Oriental Bangkok. I couldn't agree with this. This is one of the best hotels that I have ever had the pleasure to stay in.
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Just returned from a weekend at The Aerie in Victoria, B.C.http://www.aerie.bc.ca/index.php
The location is gorgeous. Unfortunately, this hotel which has won many awards for being the best luxury hotel in Canada, fell far short.
The King suite was beautifully appointed. We had large picture windows affording us gorgeous views. The suite also had a fireplace, deep soaking tub, sleigh bed, tons of closet space, beautiful bathroom (including oriental rugs on the floor), steam shower, huge deck. Furniture was very comfortable. Suite could not have been nicer. That is the good news.
The bad news is that the restaurant is a complete disaster
The resort has recently been sold to an "investor group" and they have re-staffed. Unfortunately, the chef is part of the new staff. The dinner menu has about 5 appetizers and 5 entrees, including "the fish of the day." The fish each day was Alaska sockeye salmon. No other seafood was offered. This is Canada!! The food was 80's nouvelle. Small portions, artfully arranged and utterly tasteless, with the exception of very heavy hand with the saltshaker by the chef. Breakfast was very limited. There was a "Continental buffet breakfast" which paled in comparison to some of the Club Floors I have visited. The "fruit" looked like Dole fruit cocktail. My husband sent back his french toast at breakfast, as it was cold and ridiculously prepared. The lunch menu consisted of about 5 items. When we saw the the lunch menu we asked the front desk mgr where he would go for a sandwich (we just weren't up for the choice of mushroom risotto, short ribs or smoked duck for lunch). Fortunately, the gentleman at the front desk pointed us in the direction of a great local bar and grill about 10 miles away. There we enjoyed great food and great draught beer.
The Aerie is a stunning resort. Wonderful for a relaxing weekend. Be sure you have a car and eat elsewhere and don't expect great service. Also, re: the restaurant: prices bordered on crazy and we left hungry. Small portions on very large plates. Cocktails: Small martinis in very large glasses.
The Mii Amo spa at the Enchament Resort in Sedona is supposedly rated #1 in the World by T&L Magazine. They must be kidding! There are some varied massages etc (how many weird substance can these ta ta properties rub into you to make their service "unique"?). However, the spa facility itself is on par with a nice, new Y!
Of course the resort has spectacular views! But so do other properties in Sedona that don't bill (literally!) themselves as 5*.
To make it short, wild wind, two huge trees fell (~30 meters tall) over our bungalow, destroying it during the night.
Trees fell on my side of the bed (next to the bed), but I was still sleeping. My wife thought I got it...
Anyway, best part is staff reaction, at best polite, after discussions (...) they finally agreed not to charge for the stay, pointing out that on top of it they had to pay for lodging us in a 1 1/2 star hotel in town (for 1 night...).
A month later came some flowers home and that was it.
After asking for compensation, nothing but arrogance came in reply (Guess a free night or two on the next stay would have been sort of cool...).
But they still send us yearly ads on how great their hotels are...
RC in Barcelona is crap (service is crap, they charge non existent stuff and really don't like to remove it from the bill, and even in the big suites, you're afraid to touch a thing by fear it will stay in your hand), but then again, the whole city is.
BBLR is pure junk as well, another Oriental express failure.-
The more the media hypes a hotel, the worst it seems to be. Burj al Arab is a joke. In the space of 24 hrs we had three or four different 'butlers' who all wanted a gratuity for doing nothing. The duplex suites are so aggressively kitsch that you need sun glasses. The food is just average. The stupid ' submarine' ride down to the fish restaurant is embarrassing. It is like something from Disneyland, but badly executed.
Other 'famous for being famous' disasters are:-
The Carlyle, NY
La Mamounia, Marrakech
Brenner's Park, Baden Baden
The Lugger, Cornwall, UK
Grande Bretagne, Athens
Cliveden, UK
The Adlon, Berlin
Shangri-La Bangkok
Seiya Ginza, Tokyo
Ritz-Carlton Sharm el Sheikh
Four Seasons Ritz, Lisbon
The Dorchester, London, UK
St Geran, Mauritius
Royal Palm, Mauritius
Banyan Tree Phuket
and so on and so on......
Correct, I almost forgot I stayed at the Burj...It was pure crap from the beginning to the end. To make a long story short, we were happy to return to the FS Cairo in a ~400 USD room (that had more elegance and a bigger sense of luxury than the burj's "Panoramic" suites, whatever that means) after that, and felt sorry for every single we spent at the Burj (actually, you can make that Dubai..). The "butlers" is a pure joke, they don't even know you booked a table in their own restaurants, and there is of course no communication whatsoever between these ever changing guys. Spa is horrible as well, one of the ugliest ever.
RC in Barcelona is crap (service is crap, they charge non existent stuff and really don't like to remove it from the bill, and even in the big suites, you're afraid to touch a thing by fear it will stay in your hand), but then again, the whole city is.
Respectfully disagree, although I tend to be skeptical of opinions that write off entire hotels (or really anything, for that matter) as "crap", "pure crap," "pure junk," etc ... Even in the most disappointing stay there's always a redeeming feature. I think the pavillon de la reine in Paris is massively overrated on this board, for example, but I love the location ... My contribution to this thread was a recent stay at the FS Beverly Wilshire which was a complete disaster from beginning to end, but our breakfast in BLVD was fabulous (and the servers were really great), I enjoyed the pool, and my wife thought the spa was outstanding. On the whole it's the worst stay I've ever had at a "luxury" hotel but I'm not going to pretend they didn't get a couple of things right.
The RC Barcelona is absolutely a flawed property, and I've had the same experience there with unexpected items showing up on my bill (which they've happily corrected, in my case), the service is a really mixed bag there, and one of my worse vacation meals ever was at Arola there, but the views are incredible, the rooms have the world's best showers and it has one of my favorite club lounges anywhere.
But then again, if you actually believe the "the whole city" of Barcelona is "crap" then we're probably not ever going to agree on anything.
Respectfully disagree, although I tend to be skeptical of opinions that write off entire hotels (or really anything, for that matter) as "crap", "pure crap," "pure junk," etc ... Even in the most disappointing stay there's always a redeeming feature. I think the pavillon de la reine in Paris is massively overrated on this board, for example, but I love the location ... My contribution to this thread was a recent stay at the FS Beverly Wilshire which was a complete disaster from beginning to end, but our breakfast in BLVD was fabulous (and the servers were really great), I enjoyed the pool, and my wife thought the spa was outstanding. On the whole it's the worst stay I've ever had at a "luxury" hotel but I'm not going to pretend they didn't get a couple of things right.
The RC Barcelona is absolutely a flawed property, and I've had the same experience there with unexpected items showing up on my bill (which they've happily corrected, in my case), the service is a really mixed bag there, and one of my worse vacation meals ever was at Arola there, but the views are incredible, the rooms have the world's best showers and it has one of my favorite club lounges anywhere.
But then again, if you actually believe the "the whole city" of Barcelona is "crap" then we're probably not ever going to agree on anything.
Ok, the best that can be said is that the rooms (or at least our suite) look nice. But again, touch something and it stays in your hands. And I'll stick to my opinion, there is something annoyingly "cheap" to both the Arts and the whole town. Maybe I expected too much...
On the list, I forgot the FS provence. Might be fun for 60 yo golf players, but otherwise it's bland, the cheap (indeed typically "provence newly built" style) exterior is only extended on the inside, invaded by insects of all shapes and sizes. The bathrooms are FS typical though...
... I tend to be skeptical of opinions that write off entire hotels (or really anything, for that matter) as "crap", "pure crap," "pure junk," etc ...
Well said!
It really isn't helpful when whole properties (let alone whole cities!) are dismissed in this way. Unless specifics are given - obscure2k's post above is a model example - the reader is left not knowing what to expect and is more likely to conclude "he/she had one bad stay and is now dissing the whole establishment" than "this is a property to avoid".
Last edited by Cheetah_SA; Mar 10, 08 at 2:40 am..
Reason: sp.
The Grand Formosa Regent in Taipei: Debuted great, as of recently it's just a massive dump.
Howard Resort in Kenting, Taiwan: They billed themselves as "luxury." Far from.
Island Shangri-La, Hong Kong: I think this had something to do with having stayed at the Kowloon Shangri-La but I found almost every person working there surly, rude, impatient.
The Borgata, Atlantic City NJ: I'm not so sure if the Borgata counts as a luxury hotel but it is certainly the most high end in Atlantic City. On multiple stays, I found my stay to be incredibly lacking and F&B facilities to be sub-par and pricey. It's still very nice and I'd gamble there, although I'll consider staying at Harrah's, which is not far away.
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It really isn't helpful when whole properties (let alone whole cities!) are dismissed in this way. Unless specifics are given - obscure2k's post above is a model example - the reader is left not knowing what to expect and is more likely to conclude "he/she had one bad stay and is now dissing the whole establishment" than "this is a property to avoid".
Sorry pal, but a cheap feeling place (on top of that full of L...sers with lottery-winner "attitude") will always mean a bad stay.
Your comments make me laugh. I flamed a while ago WD~50 in NYC in a blog and a friend of mine got upset because of that. Simply because the food was pure crap, service below zero. I routinely go to 3* restaurants in europe and assume I know a bit what is a great meal or good food (with due respect to costs). Same applies here to hotels (or to cars, but it's not the topic...). I've seen quite a share of them, all paid on personnal account, and simply see no reason to dump what is still objectively a lot of money in crappy rooms/hotels.
Sorry pal, but a cheap feeling place (on top of that full of L...sers with lottery-winner "attitude") will always mean a bad stay.
Your comments make me laugh. I flamed a while ago WD~50 in NYC in a blog and a friend of mine got upset because of that. Simply because the food was pure crap, service below zero. I routinely go to 3* restaurants in europe and assume I know a bit what is a great meal or good food (with due respect to costs). Same applies here to hotels (or to cars, but it's not the topic...). I've seen quite a share of them, all paid on personnal account, and simply see no reason to dump what is still objectively a lot of money in crappy rooms/hotels.
Wow. How many times in a day do you use the phrase "pure crap" as a substitute for meaningful description, discussion and analysis? And rather than discussing what you didn't like about a restaurant you proudly announce that you "flamed" it. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I myself think that flamers are pure ... well, never mind ...
I will add that, curiously enough, I've got some pretty solid dining credentials too and I liked WD-50, although it's definitely not for everyone. I guess that says something about how little I know (maybe I'm one of those losers with attitude you mentioned; what a relief that you don't have any trace of attitude) since you are kind enough to sort the experiences of the world into nice little categories of "pure crap" and ... well, I haven't heard about anything yet that you didn't think was pure crap but I assume there must be something and that must go in the other category.
Sorry all - I know I'm taking this way off topic. I'll add nothing more on this.
There is indeed too much "crap", both in the world and -as a word - in my sentences. Apologies for that. Sure there is stuff I do really like (SkyLofts were great, Amansara etc.) but for some weird reasons, it's not as much fun.
As for the WD~50, the reason why I mentionned it being crap, is that, basically it is. Why, very simple. You can love the execution (at least it looks nice on pictures), maybe even the taste (though that's a challenge too far for anyone loving "haute cuisine"), but the quality of the ingredients is rubbish (ggnnnnn....cr....), in the same way El Bulli serves cheap stuff. You can definitly make experimental/molecular cuisine that both works and uses great ingredients, like Marc Veyrat does, it's simply that imco (c for crappy, but you guessed it), he went that step further to deliver something amazing.
As for the hotels, since everybody wants a detailled explanation, here we go (all hotels booked with amex centution travel) :
1. Burj al Arab :
Booked the Phantom on airport. Immigration process perfect, trip is fine, though overpriced. Lobby full of people taking pictures, a bit annoying. Decor already (but that is taste...) looking dated.
The room (Panoramic suite) is of course VERY big, very kitschy (but we knew it already, so no real reason to complain about that), the bathroom on the other hand is rather smallish and looks already used. You do have the full set of toiletries from Hermes, but again, bought as a bulk, it shouldn't be that expensive. The food at both restaurants was so so (but rather good, except a fish that made us both -wife - yeah I managed to get married- & myself- sick), while the decors are horrible, you have the fake submarine in the underground, and giant computer chips on the top floor. The spa looks also very dated, and reminds more of a Hilton spa that of a self proclaimed 7 stars hotel.
Where the place really underperforms is the "butler service", with one per floor, changing every hour, and apparently the full CRM with him, as nobody remembers what was booked or awaited from the previous guy.
2. Arts Barcelona. Ok, I have to admit I don't really love the city (in case you didn't get it...) so it probably didn't help. We came there from El Bulli (didn't help either).
The lobby seemed normal (and not a thing I pay a big attention to, as I usually don't sleep there). Check in was ok. We had a big suite overlooking the mediterranean sea with B&O everything etc. As mentionned before, it all LOOKED nice, but if you were a bit too fast with anything, it stayed in your hands. The location is also very far from everything except a massively crowded beach.
On checkout they put (as already mentionned) stuff we never used/took, and also tried to charge us the breakfast, while it is comp. with the centurion package. Checkout was also quite slow in the process. I also found the room quite noisy regarding external noise. Oh and of course, maids perfectly ignore the DnD sign.
To sum it up, good points : Design, view, bad points : Room quality, checkin/checkout, service.
Oh, one last word on molecular cuisine à la WD~50 :
Traditional foie gras, for example, must be very fresh. "But in the molecular cuisine you can have any kind of foie gras, bad quality or not, because you deconstruct it, you freeze it, you transform it into a kind of powder and mix it with a kind of soup or a sauce and you can put it on dishes and you can use very bad products."
Molecular cuisine, he says, "is made for people who know nothing about food or cooking, it is made for people who just want to be amazed. They say this is wonderful, but they know nothing about taste or products or cuisine in general."
Interesting. We also stayed at the Arts Barcelona as part of an El Bulli trip. I think that one secret to a pleasant stay at the Arts is booking the club level ... they check you in and out up in the lounge instead of the lobby and I found the lounge staff to be absolutely top notch. I can imagine you getting resistance over removing unwanted charges down in the main lobby that I didn't encounter from staff who had gotten to know us over the course of a few days. I remember in our case it was a CD they'd put in the room and the in-room coffee. Part of their problem is that some perks are free to club level rooms (like the in-room nespresso) but not to other rooms.
Also agree about the intensely touristy marina zone by the hotel, but we found that nicer neighborhoods were a quick taxi ride or a short walk away, and we really enjoyed the big park (Ciutadella?) right across the road. Had we been there in bad weather we may have had the same feelings as you.
BTW, I've never eaten at one of Robuchon's restaurants ... and the quote before makes me even less inclined to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gougoul
Oh, one last word on molecular cuisine à la WD~50 :
Traditional foie gras, for example, must be very fresh. "But in the molecular cuisine you can have any kind of foie gras, bad quality or not, because you deconstruct it, you freeze it, you transform it into a kind of powder and mix it with a kind of soup or a sauce and you can put it on dishes and you can use very bad products."
Molecular cuisine, he says, "is made for people who know nothing about food or cooking, it is made for people who just want to be amazed. They say this is wonderful, but they know nothing about taste or products or cuisine in general."
The food was 80's nouvelle. Small portions, artfully arranged and utterly tasteless, with the exception of very heavy hand with the saltshaker by the chef. Breakfast was very limited. There was a "Continental buffet breakfast" which paled in comparison to some of the Club Floors I have visited. The "fruit" looked like Dole fruit cocktail. My husband sent back his french toast at breakfast, as it was cold and ridiculously prepared. The lunch menu consisted of about 5 items. When we saw the the lunch menu we asked the front desk mgr where he would go for a sandwich (we just weren't up for the choice of mushroom risotto, short ribs or smoked duck for lunch). Fortunately, the gentleman at the front desk pointed us in the direction of a great local bar and grill about 10 miles away. There we enjoyed great food and great draught beer. 
- in my sentences. Apologies for that. Sure there is stuff I do really like (SkyLofts were great, Amansara etc.) but for some weird reasons, it's not as much fun.
