Luxury Hotel Marketing loses sight of reality?
Nov 10, 2011, 7:20 am
#61
Join Date: Feb 2003
Programs: AC SE MM, too many others
Posts: 1,407
some interesting numbers for FS NY >
roughly, 44% occupancy of 2 beats 100% occupancy of 8.
$35K penthouse >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...s-trouble.html
july 2007 > june 2008 $30.6mm / 72%
july 2008 > june 2009 $14.7mm / 58%
(cash flow / occupancy)
roughly, 44% occupancy of 2 beats 100% occupancy of 8.
$35K penthouse >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...s-trouble.html
july 2007 > june 2008 $30.6mm / 72%
july 2008 > june 2009 $14.7mm / 58%
(cash flow / occupancy)
Nov 13, 2011, 7:09 pm
#63
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 95
[QUOTE=vuittonsofstyle;17236221]I really like Aman's anti-marketing stance. They are, very discreetly, on Facebook now, but no ads at all, ever.
At the high end, word of mouth is the best publicity. Most high-end hotel marketing/advertising is like calling an aftershave 'Status'. True 'luxury' is understated and very discreet, not idiot smiling people pretending to enjoy the luxury lifestyle - like O&O, FS et al.
Agreed Vuitton.
I've not been keen on several recent FS experiences. Each on a weeknight where a mob scene had overtaken the lounge, bar and pool deck. The last occassion, while checking in the front desk staff explained that the bar and pool area were open to the public for a weekly social function, they recommended a room on the opposite side of the hotel...no biggie. When we returned later that evening wow what a sight; the mob scene had moved from the bar to the pool and the lobby. evidentally this is/was a weekly thing.
I'm reluctant to describe the demographics/scene except to say it's a very young crowd. Would this be 'aspirational marketing' ?
At the high end, word of mouth is the best publicity. Most high-end hotel marketing/advertising is like calling an aftershave 'Status'. True 'luxury' is understated and very discreet, not idiot smiling people pretending to enjoy the luxury lifestyle - like O&O, FS et al.
Agreed Vuitton.
I've not been keen on several recent FS experiences. Each on a weeknight where a mob scene had overtaken the lounge, bar and pool deck. The last occassion, while checking in the front desk staff explained that the bar and pool area were open to the public for a weekly social function, they recommended a room on the opposite side of the hotel...no biggie. When we returned later that evening wow what a sight; the mob scene had moved from the bar to the pool and the lobby. evidentally this is/was a weekly thing.
I'm reluctant to describe the demographics/scene except to say it's a very young crowd. Would this be 'aspirational marketing' ?
Nov 18, 2011, 5:53 am
#64
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Here there and everywhere
Posts: 6,303
[QUOTE=calitripgal;17444229]
The thing about Four Seasons is that, apart from a couple of exceptions, their North American hotels are of a completely different standard to their Asian and European hotels/resorts, which means the guests, too, tend to differ. I cannot imagine seeing a bar/pool mob scene in, say, Four Seasons Bali, or George V Paris.
These days, the FS brand is incredibly fragmented from region to region and this appears to be on the increase.
I really like Aman's anti-marketing stance. They are, very discreetly, on Facebook now, but no ads at all, ever.
At the high end, word of mouth is the best publicity. Most high-end hotel marketing/advertising is like calling an aftershave 'Status'. True 'luxury' is understated and very discreet, not idiot smiling people pretending to enjoy the luxury lifestyle - like O&O, FS et al.
Agreed Vuitton.
I've not been keen on several recent FS experiences. Each on a weeknight where a mob scene had overtaken the lounge, bar and pool deck. The last occassion, while checking in the front desk staff explained that the bar and pool area were open to the public for a weekly social function, they recommended a room on the opposite side of the hotel...no biggie. When we returned later that evening wow what a sight; the mob scene had moved from the bar to the pool and the lobby. evidentally this is/was a weekly thing.
I'm reluctant to describe the demographics/scene except to say it's a very young crowd. Would this be 'aspirational marketing' ?
At the high end, word of mouth is the best publicity. Most high-end hotel marketing/advertising is like calling an aftershave 'Status'. True 'luxury' is understated and very discreet, not idiot smiling people pretending to enjoy the luxury lifestyle - like O&O, FS et al.
Agreed Vuitton.
I've not been keen on several recent FS experiences. Each on a weeknight where a mob scene had overtaken the lounge, bar and pool deck. The last occassion, while checking in the front desk staff explained that the bar and pool area were open to the public for a weekly social function, they recommended a room on the opposite side of the hotel...no biggie. When we returned later that evening wow what a sight; the mob scene had moved from the bar to the pool and the lobby. evidentally this is/was a weekly thing.
I'm reluctant to describe the demographics/scene except to say it's a very young crowd. Would this be 'aspirational marketing' ?
These days, the FS brand is incredibly fragmented from region to region and this appears to be on the increase.
Nov 18, 2011, 2:11 pm
#65
Join Date: Feb 2003
Programs: AC SE MM, too many others
Posts: 1,407
[QUOTE=vuittonsofstyle;17473664]
The thing about Four Seasons is that, apart from a couple of exceptions, their North American hotels are of a completely different standard to their Asian and European hotels/resorts, which means the guests, too, tend to differ. I cannot imagine seeing a bar/pool mob scene in, say, Four Seasons Bali, or George V Paris.
These days, the FS brand is incredibly fragmented from region to region and this appears to be on the increase.
My perception is that the brand is coasting a little bit. The number of FS properties that I personally find are "must stays" are sort of on the decline, at least for me. I suppose that compared to other chains, they are still in good shape, because the chain competitors are also challenged - but it has to be the case that in a growing number of markets, the hotels are not necessarily 1st or 2nd choice.
The thing about Four Seasons is that, apart from a couple of exceptions, their North American hotels are of a completely different standard to their Asian and European hotels/resorts, which means the guests, too, tend to differ. I cannot imagine seeing a bar/pool mob scene in, say, Four Seasons Bali, or George V Paris.
These days, the FS brand is incredibly fragmented from region to region and this appears to be on the increase.
Jan 12, 2012, 7:35 am
#66
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: BKK
Posts: 6,741
New Four Seasons website
Has anyone seen the new Four Seasons website?? When I first saw it I thought I had accidentally clicked on a link to a Four Seasons Magazine spread.
I used to love Four Seasons' straightforward, user friendly website. Now it seems they are copying Ritz-Carlton, using graphics that in some cases have absolutely nothing to do with the actual properties. I find the new website cluttered with unnecessary graphics, and the slideshows of pictures to be irritating.
Thankfully Amanresorts, Peninsula, and Mandarin Oriental continue to get it right in this regard.
edited to add-
I really can't believe this. I feel tempted to use expletives to describe these nauseating slideshows of irrelevant pictures. FS New York's website would be an example http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/newyork/
And on FS Marunouchi's website they have included a link to Tripadvisor
http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/marunouchi/
I used to love Four Seasons' straightforward, user friendly website. Now it seems they are copying Ritz-Carlton, using graphics that in some cases have absolutely nothing to do with the actual properties. I find the new website cluttered with unnecessary graphics, and the slideshows of pictures to be irritating.
Thankfully Amanresorts, Peninsula, and Mandarin Oriental continue to get it right in this regard.
edited to add-
I really can't believe this. I feel tempted to use expletives to describe these nauseating slideshows of irrelevant pictures. FS New York's website would be an example http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/newyork/
And on FS Marunouchi's website they have included a link to Tripadvisor
http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/marunouchi/
Last edited by MikeFromTokyo; Jan 12, 2012 at 8:01 am
Jan 12, 2012, 8:10 am
#67
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Here there and everywhere
Posts: 6,303
Has anyone seen the new Four Seasons website?? When I first saw it I thought I had accidentally clicked on a link to a Four Seasons Magazine spread.
I used to love Four Seasons' straightforward, user friendly website. Now it seems they are copying Ritz-Carlton, using graphics that in some cases have absolutely nothing to do with the actual properties. I find the new website cluttered with unnecessary graphics, and the slideshows of pictures to be irritating.
Thankfully Amanresorts, Peninsula, and Mandarin Oriental continue to get it right in this regard.
edited to add-
I really can't believe this. I feel tempted to use expletives to describe these nauseating slideshows of irrelevant pictures. FS New York's website would be an example http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/newyork/
And on FS Marunouchi's website they have included a link to Tripadvisorhttp://www.preview.fourseasons.com/marunouchi/
I used to love Four Seasons' straightforward, user friendly website. Now it seems they are copying Ritz-Carlton, using graphics that in some cases have absolutely nothing to do with the actual properties. I find the new website cluttered with unnecessary graphics, and the slideshows of pictures to be irritating.
Thankfully Amanresorts, Peninsula, and Mandarin Oriental continue to get it right in this regard.
edited to add-
I really can't believe this. I feel tempted to use expletives to describe these nauseating slideshows of irrelevant pictures. FS New York's website would be an example http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/newyork/
And on FS Marunouchi's website they have included a link to Tripadvisor
http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/marunouchi/
Jan 12, 2012, 9:22 am
#68
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 95
FSNY
Has anyone seen the new Four Seasons website?? When I first saw it I thought I had accidentally clicked on a link to a Four Seasons Magazine spread.
I used to love Four Seasons' straightforward, user friendly website. Now it seems they are copying Ritz-Carlton, using graphics that in some cases have absolutely nothing to do with the actual properties. I find the new website cluttered with unnecessary graphics, and the slideshows of pictures to be irritating.
Thankfully Amanresorts, Peninsula, and Mandarin Oriental continue to get it right in this regard.
edited to add-
I really can't believe this. I feel tempted to use expletives to describe these nauseating slideshows of irrelevant pictures. FS New York's website would be an example http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/newyork/
And on FS Marunouchi's website they have included a link to Tripadvisorhttp://www.preview.fourseasons.com/marunouchi/
I used to love Four Seasons' straightforward, user friendly website. Now it seems they are copying Ritz-Carlton, using graphics that in some cases have absolutely nothing to do with the actual properties. I find the new website cluttered with unnecessary graphics, and the slideshows of pictures to be irritating.
Thankfully Amanresorts, Peninsula, and Mandarin Oriental continue to get it right in this regard.
edited to add-
I really can't believe this. I feel tempted to use expletives to describe these nauseating slideshows of irrelevant pictures. FS New York's website would be an example http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/newyork/
And on FS Marunouchi's website they have included a link to Tripadvisor
http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/marunouchi/While checking out the new website last week my 12 year old proclaimed ... "this is not the hotel we stayed at ".
Jan 12, 2012, 1:05 pm
#70
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Home
Programs: Virgin FC, Qantas, Golden Circle, Sofitel, Hyatt, Starwood, Nectar, and my Tesco Club Card
Posts: 1,770
Whilst there was nothing wrong with the old web site I did feel it needed a bit of a refresh with perhaps some new photography
Not sure about the new site at all.
Find the scrolling up and down frustrating and some of the type fonts don't seem to work and are difficult to read
The couple of properties I looked out still had the same age-old photographs and poor examples of menus available in the restaurants - Even my local Pizza Express can put a pdf of its menu on the web
The Trip Advisor box with 'selected' snippets of praise is a bit of joke IMO
If the purpose of the web site is to wet my appetite and lure me to book then the FS website doesn't do it.
Personally, don't think the Aman website stands out, MO isn't bad, but would agree the Peninsula website really sells the properties
Not sure about the new site at all.
Find the scrolling up and down frustrating and some of the type fonts don't seem to work and are difficult to read
The couple of properties I looked out still had the same age-old photographs and poor examples of menus available in the restaurants - Even my local Pizza Express can put a pdf of its menu on the web
The Trip Advisor box with 'selected' snippets of praise is a bit of joke IMO
If the purpose of the web site is to wet my appetite and lure me to book then the FS website doesn't do it.
Personally, don't think the Aman website stands out, MO isn't bad, but would agree the Peninsula website really sells the properties
Last edited by Kettering Northants QC; Jan 12, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Jan 12, 2012, 2:06 pm
#71
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,946
Has anyone seen the new Four Seasons website?? When I first saw it I thought I had accidentally clicked on a link to a Four Seasons Magazine spread.
I used to love Four Seasons' straightforward, user friendly website. Now it seems they are copying Ritz-Carlton, using graphics that in some cases have absolutely nothing to do with the actual properties. I find the new website cluttered with unnecessary graphics, and the slideshows of pictures to be irritating.
Thankfully Amanresorts, Peninsula, and Mandarin Oriental continue to get it right in this regard.
edited to add-
I really can't believe this. I feel tempted to use expletives to describe these nauseating slideshows of irrelevant pictures. FS New York's website would be an example http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/newyork/
And on FS Marunouchi's website they have included a link to Tripadvisorhttp://www.preview.fourseasons.com/marunouchi/
I used to love Four Seasons' straightforward, user friendly website. Now it seems they are copying Ritz-Carlton, using graphics that in some cases have absolutely nothing to do with the actual properties. I find the new website cluttered with unnecessary graphics, and the slideshows of pictures to be irritating.
Thankfully Amanresorts, Peninsula, and Mandarin Oriental continue to get it right in this regard.
edited to add-
I really can't believe this. I feel tempted to use expletives to describe these nauseating slideshows of irrelevant pictures. FS New York's website would be an example http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/newyork/
And on FS Marunouchi's website they have included a link to Tripadvisor
http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/marunouchi/
Jan 12, 2012, 3:44 pm
#72
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Home
Programs: Virgin FC, Qantas, Golden Circle, Sofitel, Hyatt, Starwood, Nectar, and my Tesco Club Card
Posts: 1,770
The more I look at the FS site the more I hate it.
- How many different font types can one get on 1 page?
- There are some bugs - the currency converter sometimes appears against a room rate, sometimes it doesn't
- When booking a room on the site they will offer you a room upgrade (for a fee), on one I looked at it said - upgrade to Deluxe View Room for XXX and get a better view and a more spacious room. INCORRECT - you may get a better view but according to the room descriptions, elsewhere on the site, in this case the rooms are the same size -
- How many different font types can one get on 1 page?
- There are some bugs - the currency converter sometimes appears against a room rate, sometimes it doesn't
- When booking a room on the site they will offer you a room upgrade (for a fee), on one I looked at it said - upgrade to Deluxe View Room for XXX and get a better view and a more spacious room. INCORRECT - you may get a better view but according to the room descriptions, elsewhere on the site, in this case the rooms are the same size -
Jan 12, 2012, 5:19 pm
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
recap in sources thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17212433-post42.html
less than a month later, theyre redirecting to new site
you can still access original ratecards (for how long?) (not these)
a positive - some properties listing some excursions on rates page now, some with prices (both versions of site)
you can still access original ratecards (for how long?) (not these)
a positive - some properties listing some excursions on rates page now, some with prices (both versions of site)
http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/jacksonhole/offers/
http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/j...ntracked_trio/
"$319" - if only
supposed to be $1319?
http://www.preview.fourseasons.com/j...ntracked_trio/
"$319" - if only
supposed to be $1319?
Jan 17, 2012, 12:24 pm
#74
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,946
[QUOTE=vuittonsofstyle;17473664]
The thing about Four Seasons is that, apart from a couple of exceptions, their North American hotels are of a completely different standard to their Asian and European hotels/resorts, which means the guests, too, tend to differ. I cannot imagine seeing a bar/pool mob scene in, say, Four Seasons Bali, or George V Paris.
These days, the FS brand is incredibly fragmented from region to region and this appears to be on the increase.
Do you think this to be limited to just FS or across the whole luxury hotel market?
The thing about Four Seasons is that, apart from a couple of exceptions, their North American hotels are of a completely different standard to their Asian and European hotels/resorts, which means the guests, too, tend to differ. I cannot imagine seeing a bar/pool mob scene in, say, Four Seasons Bali, or George V Paris.
These days, the FS brand is incredibly fragmented from region to region and this appears to be on the increase.
Jan 19, 2012, 2:09 pm
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
because theyre redirecting rate pages at the moment
