Vince Chan

I read one of blogger's article that mentioned Marriott rewards lacks properties in renowned resort destination, such as Bora Bora, Maldive…etc.

I found what he described is true , let’s not talk about the past, at least currently, there is no Marriott in those premium destination, but you can find St Regis, IC, Conrad, even the less expensive brand Le Méridien in Bora Bora.

Except for Ritz Carlton, most Marriott brands seems to lack presence in expensive resort destination. The most upscale brand in Marriott Rewards, if we skip Edition,is Jw Marriott, and when you check its website, you will feel that Marriott tries to promote this brand as both “ luxury city hotel and Leisure resort”, the first image they carry is one of the resort in Los Cabos.

But in fact almost 90 percents of JW resort and Renaissance is catering to less expensive and mass market that usually carries over 200 rooms ( in asia!) and high rise building fitting many guest rooms , however its competitor Conrad and IC both has some very exclusive and truly luxurious property that is all villa or all suite designed and designed as less than 100 unites. For ex: W Ko Samui, Conrad Maldives, Bora Bora, IC Danang, Bora Bora...

While I do feel that Ren is an upscale brand and JW certainly can match and equivalent to both IC and Conrad, the fact indeed is JW does not have really special high end resort in world class destination. Maybe you can count Venice, but that's the only one.

The Newly opened JW Phu Quoc which I believe is fantastic, comparing to IC Danang, the JW is designed as more approachable and less expensive " guest room" building type resort.

My question is why? If they really want to promote JW brand as more of a luxury resort type, why they promote this kind of image but at the same time ,what Marriott group built for JW is mass market multiple rooms resort and most properties however , are city luxury business hotels.

If we checked Amex FHR list , you can find some Conrad , IC in the list , even the Hyatt (not the Park one) making to the list and some of the Grand Hyatt in the list are not even that good. Anyway, there is no Jw Marriott in FHR, not even one! Until this year , only one JW and one Ren making to the list. Why? Is the overall product quality of JW not as good as other's from the prestigious and professional AMEX FHR editor's eye? I am really curious.

Although JW is my favorite brand in Marriott Family, I really want to know why both Hilton and IHG, plus SPG' W, have built ultra high end resort for those brand which matches to JW, but only Marriott which is capable but don't build those kind of exclusive and expensive type of hotel for its so called luxury brand in gateway destinations?

Also, Marriott doesn't have much inputs at those premium vacation location that he mentioned, and Starwood is so successful in leisure and vacation markets, even the" not so good" IC has some top class resorts . I really would like to know why? Anyone know the core value and strategy of Marriott? Is this because Marriott only focus on the business market and it's not very good at building luxury brand at leisure market comparing to SPG ? Since Ritz is purchased. And I've heard many others feel that SPG have more luxurious and expensive and diversified brand comparing to Marriott.

SkiAdcock

What did Marriott say when you contacted them directly w/ your Why questions?

CJKatl

Obviously Marriott realizes if they built such properties they would attract a type of customer that has unrealistic images of self grandeur. Who would want those types of customers? Marriott is making it very clear they don't.

And yes, I have seen the movie Gremlins.

Horace

Keep in mind that Marriott International follows an asset-light business model. With very rare exceptions, Marriott does not build or own hotels and resorts.

Companies around the world that develop (or acquire and renovate) hotels and resorts choose how to position and brand these properties, as well as how they will be managed.

You could ask why a hotel developer attaches a particular brand to a property, instead attaching another.

In terms of Marriott's positioning of JW Marriott brand, it's now one of 30 Marriott brands. Marriott has been promoting and defining these 30 brands.

Vince Chan

Obviously from your points Both IC and Conrad are failed brand that built unrealistic image at those destination and attracts customer they don't want? Where is your resource that" make it clear they don't want"? If you really are participating at this thread.

Vince Chan

Thanks for sharing.

C17PSGR

Vince ... while we appreciate your frequent questions on branding and market positioning, we might appreciate more information on properties you've stayed at or be able to answer questions if you were considering a particular hotel, or trying to choose between hotels in a particular city.

Kagehitokiri

uh, ritz carlton is their only expensive luxury brand
(bvlgari are managed by ritz carlton except london)
(starwood has st regis, luxury collection, W resorts)
but there are marriott timeshares in hawaii etc

Horace

Starwood no longer exists. It was acquired by Marriott in September 2016. Although Starwood still exists as a reservation system and website, and SPG still exists as a loyalty program, these things are supposed to be combined with Marriott systems and programs before the end of 2018.

Marriott's "Explore Our Brands" page classifies eight brands as luxury.

Three are Classic Luxury:

• The Ritz-Carlton
• St. Regis
• JW Marriott

Five are Distinctive Luxury:

• Ritz-Carlton Reserve
• The Luxury Collection
• BULGARI
• W Hotels
• EDITION

Although there are Marriott and Westin timeshares in Hawaii, I don't understand how that relates to this topic.

Kagehitokiri

until loyalty program is merged... execs saying theyre not guaranteeing 2018.

but good point re "marriott brands"
good point re edition miami, but only edition miami so far

ritz reserve & ritz residences (waikiki - hotel) & ritz club (vail - hotel) = ritz
JW is not expensive

expensive marriott timeshares - in addition to hawaii, also skiing

yurtripper

Even so, there is still a clear division of brands when it comes to the loyalty programs, which is a major deciding factor for most of us here. The current summer Megabonus promo only recognises the pre-existing MR portfolio for the brand bonus (http://www.marriott.com/rewards/prom...promotion=SC17).

So I think it's still fair to think in terms of Starwood brands vs Marriott brands until the final merger takes place.

Horace

Yes, SPG is still a separate program, and it will apparently remain so until late 2018 or even into 2019. So, for topics such as earning points, achieving status, maximizing promotions, elite benefits, and so on, it makes sense to treat Rewards and SPG separately. And it makes sense that FlyerTalk has separate forums.

However, for topics such as brand positioning, comparison to other hotel companies, geographic distribution of brands, future trends, corporate strategy, and so on, Starwood is no longer a separate company.

aaupgrade

Vince,

As others have eluded to, Marriott acquires new premium resort properties by buying other hotel chains (SPG) who have hotels in premium locations not yet served by Marriott.

From a loyalty, benefits, point earning and burning perspective, for Ritz-Carlton, only Ritz-Carlton hotels participate (excluding Singapore RC Hotel). RC Reserves, Residences, Clubs, Ritz hotels in London and Paris, and Bulgari hotels do not participate.

Source: #11 under General Membership in Rewards Terms & Conditions

hockeyinsider

I think this is an interesting post.

I do agree that Starwood (SPG) has more luxury properties.

There are some very exceptional J.W. Marriott hotels, but there are also some that aren't much better than a really good Marriott. I think, for the most part, it's all marketing.

There really isn't much difference between the average Marriott, the average Westin, the average Sheraton, the average Renaissance, and the average J.W. Marriott. Basically, the only real difference is the decor is nicer and better quality at some of these brands, some of the amenities are higher end, and the ratio of staff-to-guest is better. Some Marriott hotels, for example, have bellmen and a proper concierge. But that's not a brand standard, insofar as I can tell.

Also, I think Marriott has historically been seen as more business-oriented, which probably explains why Marriott is trying to diversify by making Renaissance more corporate boutique-like, launch more Ritz-Carlton and J.W. hotels, and acquire more brands to capture guests who otherwise wouldn't think of staying at the flagship Marriot that, at least domestically, is probably 25-30 years old.

Years ago, when I was a kid -- I'm in my mid-30s now -- staying at a Marriott with my father was a big deal. I think the brand used to be seen as upscale. Definitely nicer than the Holiday Inn. Now, I don't think the same can be said. The average Marriott and average Holiday Inn aren't really any better than the average Holiday Inn. For its flagship Marriott brand, Marriott doesn't even require hotels to have slippers and robes anymore. I can remember when every room at in a Marriott, at least the executive/concierge rooms, had slippers and a robe -- to say nothing of real stationary and mouthwash.

I will say that the flagship Marriott brand is internationally positioned more toward the upscale to downmarket luxury end of the hotel spectrum than domestically. The best J.W. Marriotts even are internationally whereas the J.W. in Grand Rapids, Michigan, or Miami, Florida, is more like a Marriott internationally.

AirbusFan2B

And Marriott still skips concierge lounge in resort destinations, e.g. Fort Lauderdale FL and Kauai HI, correct? Unlike Hyatt.