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Old Mar 31, 07, 4:41 pm   #1
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Question Would an LH Award Allow this Routing?

Sorry, I cannot call LH right now, so if someone can help, that would be great.

Simple question:

Could I do the following routing on an LH award:

MAD-(MUC or FRA)-KBP // IEV-(MUC or FRA)-KBP

This is a simple open jaw, right? The LH.com gives an error when it tries to book.

Thanks,
BJ

Last edited by BenjaminNYC; Mar 31, 07 at 4:50 pm.
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Old Mar 31, 07, 4:44 pm   #2
 
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If you are going to Kiev, you should use the code KBP rather than IEV. The former is for the main international airport, the latter is for one which does more internal flights. That might help on lh.com!
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Old Mar 31, 07, 4:50 pm   #3
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Originally Posted by bcmatt View Post
If you are going to Kiev, you should use the code KBP rather than IEV. The former is for the main international airport, the latter is for one which does more internal flights. That might help on lh.com!
Thanks, but that doesn't help. It replaces IEV and KBP with Kiev anyway.

Do you think this routing would be allowed?
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Old Mar 31, 07, 6:43 pm   #4
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So you are going from Spain to Kiev back to Germany and back to Kiev? I doubt that is allowed on a single award. And since M&M charges a wounded bull for one-way awards will not be particularly efficient combined award either.
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Old Mar 31, 07, 6:59 pm   #5
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So you are going from Spain to Kiev back to Germany and back to Kiev? I doubt that is allowed on a single award. And since M&M charges a wounded bull for one-way awards will not be particularly efficient combined award either.
No, no. I'm not stopping in Germany either way. It's just a transit. The award would be MAD-Kiev//Kiev-ATH. Isn't that a simple open jaw that should be allowed? There is no stopover in Germany - just connect.
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Old Mar 31, 07, 8:03 pm   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjaminNYC View Post
MAD-(MUC or FRA)-KBP // IEV-(MUC or FRA)-KBP
Then correct your post #1!

MAD-KBP-ATH should be possible. I suggest you call the M&M hotline.
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Old Mar 31, 07, 8:10 pm   #7
 
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Originally Posted by BenjaminNYC View Post
No, no. I'm not stopping in Germany either way. It's just a transit. The award would be MAD-Kiev//Kiev-ATH. Isn't that a simple open jaw that should be allowed? There is no stopover in Germany - just connect.
I seem to remember some discussion that the length of the open sector needs to be shorter than either of the flown sectors, which it is not in your case. If this is incorrect, I am sure someone will correct me...
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Old Mar 31, 07, 8:31 pm   #8
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I seem to remember some discussion that the length of the open sector needs to be shorter than either of the flown sectors, which it is not in your case. If this is incorrect, I am sure someone will correct me...
Yes by definition an open jaw must be the shortest of 3 sides of the triangle. In this case MAD-ATH must be shorter than both MAD-KPB, KBP-ATH. (I'm not sure if distances used direct routing or actual for the purposes of this test - in either case I don't think it meets the definition of open jaw.)
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Old Mar 31, 07, 11:57 pm   #9
 
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Yes by definition an open jaw must be the shortest of 3 sides of the triangle.
And they are very religious in applying this rule. Had problems getting SYD-NSN/AKL-SYD early this year. First agent argued that as one had to route SYD-WLG-NSN, the NSN-AKL segment would be longer than the WLG-NSN one (which is true but immaterial), the second one insisted that NSN-AKL was an "overwater segment" which is true for about 5% of the route . The third agent smoothly booked it after verifying that SYD-WLG is indeed longer than NSN-AKL.
Still an interesting argument as the outbound is not SYD-WLG but SYD-NSN, so shouldn't the latter distance count?
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Old Apr 1, 07, 12:17 am   #10
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I don't know. It is irrelevant, but NSN-AKL is indeed mostly over water. A bit hard to tell from GCM, but in my experience is basically over land only at Taranaki, and Pukekohe/Waiuku area (possibly also Manukau depending on runway direction being used). The rest is over Cook Strait, just off the North Island west coast, and over Manukau Harbour.
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Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Apr 1, 07 at 12:48 am. Reason: typo
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Old Apr 1, 07, 12:43 am   #11
 
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I don't know. It is irrelevant, but NSN-AKL is indeed mostly over water.
Hey! You side with them or with me ?

Of course you are right, I did it a few times and there is a lot of Tasman water down there.

But then the SYD-PER is often mostly over water and still doesn't count as such. And you can do NSN-AKL by car or train & bus or by foot somehow ....
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Old Apr 1, 07, 12:50 am   #12
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That is a rubbish map - shown for clarity rather than illustrating flight path.

Back to the OP. I think it would require 2 one-way awards (equals expensive on M&M).
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Old Apr 1, 07, 1:39 am   #13
 
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That is a rubbish map - shown for clarity rather than illustrating flight path...
Yes of course these are not flight paths - but at such a small scale you can safely assume NZ to be twodimensional and draw the straight line between NSN and AKL. After all, the Great Circle Mapper doesn't do anything else.
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Old Apr 1, 07, 1:50 am   #14
 
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Originally Posted by BenjaminNYC View Post
The award would be MAD-Kiev//Kiev-ATH. Isn't that a simple open jaw that should be allowed? There is no stopover in Germany - just connect.
As e.g. MAD-Kiev//Kiev-CDG (or VIE) and also Kiev-MAD//MAD-ATH can be priced normally (15k for flysmart and 28k for a standard award), I would guess that the shortest-of-3-sides-of-the-triangle-rule applies here!

Last edited by bau31888; Apr 1, 07 at 2:39 am.
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Old Apr 1, 07, 4:37 am   #15
 
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no black and white here, again:
FRA-NCE//NCE-(MUC)-HEL is bookable, albeit FRA-HEL isn't the shortest distance. If the online booking engine shows "no fares found for this itinerary", I'd call as suggested.
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