No rerouting for Economy Classic fare [from TXL-MUC to TXL-FCO-MUC]?
Aug 20, 2017, 1:36 pm
#16
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lone Tree, CO
Programs: United Mileage Plus, BA Executive Club, Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 744
How would a ticket exchange be considered a refund? LH would not be refunding any money to me or my credit card. If anything, they would be collecting additional airfare from me. Apparently, US and European carriers have different definitions for what counts as a change vs an exchange vs a refund.
Perhaps the booking page should state "limited changes allowed with restrictions, €70 fee for change, see fare rules".
Perhaps the booking page should state "limited changes allowed with restrictions, €70 fee for change, see fare rules".
Last edited by jsnearline; Aug 20, 2017 at 1:46 pm
Aug 20, 2017, 10:46 pm
#17
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Aug 21, 2017, 12:19 am
#18
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Posts: 3,420
Aug 21, 2017, 12:29 am
#19
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: LH HON
Posts: 3,420
You totally missed my point (and OP's). There is no express prohibition on applying the ticket value to a new itinerary. There is apparently an implied prohibition based on the absence of a provision expressly allowing such a change, but you'd have to read literally hundreds of lines of block print to confirm that.
Combine the absence of an express prohibition on changing the itinerary, with language which expressly allows rerouting and you have OP very reasonably concluding he could do what he wants to do.
Combine the absence of an express prohibition on changing the itinerary, with language which expressly allows rerouting and you have OP very reasonably concluding he could do what he wants to do.
So while it may be inconvenient for the customer to read through all those rules, he still accepts them when booking. And I guess you can tell by the overall responses that most others agree, that this is OK, even if that's just because we're used to it
Aug 21, 2017, 12:53 am
#20
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If you were just reading the fare rules cold, I'm fairly certain you would not reach that conclusion. I'm a lawyer and I know how to read fare rules, and they really do not tell me you cannot pay a change fee and apply the ticket value to a new itinerary.
Aug 21, 2017, 1:36 am
#21
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
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Location: MUC
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No, it means the originally booked trip from A to B cannot be cancelled and refunded, but changed (date/time/routing as per the routing table) for a fee.
Aug 21, 2017, 2:53 am
#22
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Thinking that you may apply the ticket value (of an otherwise non-refundable ticket) against a new and totally different itinerary (even with payment of the change fee) is utter nonsense.
In reality, you are trying to make a non-refundable ticket, refundable.
In reality, you are trying to make a non-refundable ticket, refundable.
Last edited by SK AAR; Aug 21, 2017 at 3:09 am Reason: spelling
Aug 21, 2017, 9:24 am
#24
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lone Tree, CO
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As I said in my previous post, it's a matter of how these terms are defined and interpreted in North America vs Europe.
Aug 21, 2017, 9:34 am
#25
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
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Location: MUC
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US BE fares also have super hard clauses:
Code:
FQN76*PE
** RULES DISPLAY ** XF MAY APPLY
ZP EXCLUDED
SURCHG MAY APPLY-CK RULE
21AUG17**21AUG17/UA HOUNYC/NSP
LN FARE BASIS USD PEN DATES DAYS AP MIN MAX RTG
76+KEA2AKBN 253.02R NRF - - + - 21+ + - 1
FCL: KEA2AKBN TRF: 11 RULE: BAK2 BK: N*
PTC: ADT-ADULT FTC: ERU-ECONOMY RT UNBUNDLED
FARE FAMILY : ECOBASIC
PE.PENALTIES
FOR ROUND TRIP ECONOMY RT UNBUNDLED FARES
CHANGES/CANCELLATIONS
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. CHANGES NOT PERMITTED.
NOTE -
-------
NO UNUSED TICKET MAY BE USED TOWARD THE PURCHASE
OF A BASIC ECONOMY TICKET.
-------
PAGE 1/ 2
>
m
NO RESIDUAL VALUE MAY BE USED TOWARD THE PURCHASE
OF A BASIC ECONOMY TICKET.
-------
PAGE 2/ 2
>
fqn66*pe
FQN66*PE
** RULES DISPLAY ** XF MAY APPLY
ZP EXCLUDED
SURCHG MAY APPLY-CK RULE
21AUG17**21AUG17/UA HOUNYC/NSP
LN FARE BASIS USD PEN DATES DAYS AP MIN MAX RTG
66+TEA1AKEN 359.07R NRF - - + - 10+ + - 1
FCL: TEA1AKEN TRF: 11 RULE: ECK2 BK: T
PTC: ADT-ADULT FTC: XPN-INSTANT PURCHASE NONREF
FARE FAMILY : ECONOMY
PE.PENALTIES
FOR ROUND TRIP FARES
CANCELLATIONS
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW/
REFUND.
WAIVED FOR SCHEDULE CHANGE.
NOTE -
--
TAX/CHARGE - US/ZP/XF - WILL NOT BE
PAGE 1/18
>
m
REFUNDED ON NON-REFUNDABLE FARE TICKETS
--
A. WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET -
--
A WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET MAY BE APPLIED TOWARD THE
PURCHASE OF MOST DOMESTIC OR INTERNATIONAL FARES/
EXCLUSIONS APPLY / TICKET PRICED AT -CURRENT-
FARE LEVELS FOLLOWING ALL FARE RULE PROVISIONS.
--
ORIGINAL RESERVATIONS OF WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET MUST
BE CANCELLED PRIOR TO ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED FLIGHT
OR TICKET HAS NO VALUE.
--
WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET MUST BE EXCHANGED NO LATER
THAN ONE YEAR / 365 DAYS / OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET
ISSUE DATE OR TICKET HAS NO VALUE.
--
THE NON REFUNDABLE VALUE OF THE UNUSED TICKET
MUST BE CARRIED FORWARD IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX OF
THE NEW TICKET AND DESIGNATED AS NON REFUNDABLE.
--
PAGE 2/18
>
m
AN ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICE FEE EQUAL TO THE CHANGE
FEE WILL BE ASSESSED PER TRANSACTION.
RESIDUAL VALUE / IF ANY / WILL BE RETURNED IN THE
FORM OF A NON-REFUNDABLE VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL
ON UNITED AIRLINES.
TRAVEL AGENCY MAY ISSUE A NON-REFUNDABLE MCO/EMD
VALID FOR TRAVEL ON UNITED AIRLINES.
--
PASSENGERS TRAVELING ON COMPANION FARES MUST
PRESENT ALL TICKETS AT THE SAME TIME.
--
B. BOOKING CODE CHANGE PERMITTED -
--
WHEN A NEW FARE IS INTRODUCED INTO THE MARKET OR
A CURRENT FARE IS REDUCED OR BECOMES AVAILABLE /
THE TICKETED PASSENGER MAY QUALIFY FOR ONE OF
THE ABOVE OPTIONS.
ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE MUST BE MET
BEFORE DEPARTURE.
--
NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/DATES/FLIGHTS.
PAGE 3/18
Aug 21, 2017, 9:52 am
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lone Tree, CO
Programs: United Mileage Plus, BA Executive Club, Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 744
US BE fares also have super hard clauses:
Code:
FQN76*PE
** RULES DISPLAY ** XF MAY APPLY
ZP EXCLUDED
SURCHG MAY APPLY-CK RULE
21AUG17**21AUG17/UA HOUNYC/NSP
LN FARE BASIS USD PEN DATES DAYS AP MIN MAX RTG
76+KEA2AKBN 253.02R NRF - - + - 21+ + - 1
FCL: KEA2AKBN TRF: 11 RULE: BAK2 BK: N*
PTC: ADT-ADULT FTC: ERU-ECONOMY RT UNBUNDLED
FARE FAMILY : ECOBASIC
PE.PENALTIES
FOR ROUND TRIP ECONOMY RT UNBUNDLED FARES
CHANGES/CANCELLATIONS
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. CHANGES NOT PERMITTED.
NOTE -
-------
NO UNUSED TICKET MAY BE USED TOWARD THE PURCHASE
OF A BASIC ECONOMY TICKET.
-------
PAGE 1/ 2
>
m
NO RESIDUAL VALUE MAY BE USED TOWARD THE PURCHASE
OF A BASIC ECONOMY TICKET.
-------
PAGE 2/ 2
>
fqn66*pe
FQN66*PE
** RULES DISPLAY ** XF MAY APPLY
ZP EXCLUDED
SURCHG MAY APPLY-CK RULE
21AUG17**21AUG17/UA HOUNYC/NSP
LN FARE BASIS USD PEN DATES DAYS AP MIN MAX RTG
66+TEA1AKEN 359.07R NRF - - + - 10+ + - 1
FCL: TEA1AKEN TRF: 11 RULE: ECK2 BK: T
PTC: ADT-ADULT FTC: XPN-INSTANT PURCHASE NONREF
FARE FAMILY : ECONOMY
PE.PENALTIES
FOR ROUND TRIP FARES
CANCELLATIONS
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW/
REFUND.
WAIVED FOR SCHEDULE CHANGE.
NOTE -
--
TAX/CHARGE - US/ZP/XF - WILL NOT BE
PAGE 1/18
>
m
REFUNDED ON NON-REFUNDABLE FARE TICKETS
--
A. WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET -
--
A WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET MAY BE APPLIED TOWARD THE
PURCHASE OF MOST DOMESTIC OR INTERNATIONAL FARES/
EXCLUSIONS APPLY / TICKET PRICED AT -CURRENT-
FARE LEVELS FOLLOWING ALL FARE RULE PROVISIONS.
--
ORIGINAL RESERVATIONS OF WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET MUST
BE CANCELLED PRIOR TO ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED FLIGHT
OR TICKET HAS NO VALUE.
--
WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET MUST BE EXCHANGED NO LATER
THAN ONE YEAR / 365 DAYS / OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET
ISSUE DATE OR TICKET HAS NO VALUE.
--
THE NON REFUNDABLE VALUE OF THE UNUSED TICKET
MUST BE CARRIED FORWARD IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX OF
THE NEW TICKET AND DESIGNATED AS NON REFUNDABLE.
--
PAGE 2/18
>
m
AN ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICE FEE EQUAL TO THE CHANGE
FEE WILL BE ASSESSED PER TRANSACTION.
RESIDUAL VALUE / IF ANY / WILL BE RETURNED IN THE
FORM OF A NON-REFUNDABLE VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL
ON UNITED AIRLINES.
TRAVEL AGENCY MAY ISSUE A NON-REFUNDABLE MCO/EMD
VALID FOR TRAVEL ON UNITED AIRLINES.
--
PASSENGERS TRAVELING ON COMPANION FARES MUST
PRESENT ALL TICKETS AT THE SAME TIME.
--
B. BOOKING CODE CHANGE PERMITTED -
--
WHEN A NEW FARE IS INTRODUCED INTO THE MARKET OR
A CURRENT FARE IS REDUCED OR BECOMES AVAILABLE /
THE TICKETED PASSENGER MAY QUALIFY FOR ONE OF
THE ABOVE OPTIONS.
ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE MUST BE MET
BEFORE DEPARTURE.
--
NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/DATES/FLIGHTS.
PAGE 3/18
Aug 21, 2017, 10:32 am
#27
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,167
You totally missed my point (and OP's). There is no express prohibition on applying the ticket value to a new itinerary. There is apparently an implied prohibition based on the absence of a provision expressly allowing such a change, but you'd have to read literally hundreds of lines of block print to confirm that.
Combine the absence of an express prohibition on changing the itinerary, with language which expressly allows rerouting and you have OP very reasonably concluding he could do what he wants to do.
Combine the absence of an express prohibition on changing the itinerary, with language which expressly allows rerouting and you have OP very reasonably concluding he could do what he wants to do.
In my country there is a thing called law, a thing called contract and another thing called common sense. And different from the US they often match. A non refundable ticket is non refundable. There is no principle of "applying the ticket value to a new itinerary". Just because you like it, it is not part of the contract.
Aug 21, 2017, 11:15 am
#28
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,633
A change implies a different time or date, maybe even a different routing if there are multiple routing possibilities mentioned in the routing table. Anything else is not defined as a change. The concept of applying a residual ticket value towards a new ticket is (at least in my experince) an unknown concept for intra-european routings and European airlines.
Aug 21, 2017, 12:11 pm
#29
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Location: Lone Tree, CO
Programs: United Mileage Plus, BA Executive Club, Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 744
Aug 22, 2017, 10:08 am
#30
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 410
A change implies a different time or date, maybe even a different routing if there are multiple routing possibilities mentioned in the routing table. Anything else is not defined as a change. The concept of applying a residual ticket value towards a new ticket is (at least in my experince) an unknown concept for intra-european routings and European airlines.
http://www.easyjet.com/en/help/booking/making-a-change
https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful...ate-name-route