All LH A330 will lose F cabin: MUC in Winter 2016/17, FRA starting Summer 2018
Apr 28, 2016, 10:12 am
#46
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
I did not. But they'd actually be plenty good enough too.
.
Apr 28, 2016, 3:47 pm
#47
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: HH Diamond, SPG Gold, CC Gold, AA Platinum, UA Gold
Posts: 30
I'm not too sure if the reported first class changes are really going into effect based on my recent calls to the M&M call center and the general LH flight reservation agents. Here's the deal:
I'm booked on MUC-ORD on Jan. 20, 2017 in first class. When I read about the changes from airlineroute.net I called M&M to try to switch my routing onto the MUC-IAD flight, which according to the release will still have first class. The M&M representative stated that I'm still booked in first, and that the seat maps are current which show that I'm still in row 1 of the first-class equipped A340-600. When I pulled up my reservation online, it does indeed show the seating as first class (only 4 seats across, 2 rows, I'm in row 1). I explained to her that I tried to make another dummy booking into first for the flight but couldn't--only business class is available to book. She restated that I'm in first class and said that more first class seats were not being released at this time.
IHUACA, this time talking to a general LH flight reservation line and she gave the same story.
Any suggestions on what to do? Do I take the airlineroute.net release as gospel and press the issue, or just wait and see what happens. I've got time on my side...
I'm booked on MUC-ORD on Jan. 20, 2017 in first class. When I read about the changes from airlineroute.net I called M&M to try to switch my routing onto the MUC-IAD flight, which according to the release will still have first class. The M&M representative stated that I'm still booked in first, and that the seat maps are current which show that I'm still in row 1 of the first-class equipped A340-600. When I pulled up my reservation online, it does indeed show the seating as first class (only 4 seats across, 2 rows, I'm in row 1). I explained to her that I tried to make another dummy booking into first for the flight but couldn't--only business class is available to book. She restated that I'm in first class and said that more first class seats were not being released at this time.
IHUACA, this time talking to a general LH flight reservation line and she gave the same story.
Any suggestions on what to do? Do I take the airlineroute.net release as gospel and press the issue, or just wait and see what happens. I've got time on my side...
Apr 28, 2016, 8:13 pm
#48
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
Apr 29, 2016, 12:46 am
#49
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: LH HON
Posts: 3,420
I'm not too sure if the reported first class changes are really going into effect based on my recent calls to the M&M call center and the general LH flight reservation agents. Here's the deal:
I'm booked on MUC-ORD on Jan. 20, 2017 in first class. When I read about the changes from airlineroute.net I called M&M to try to switch my routing onto the MUC-IAD flight, which according to the release will still have first class. The M&M representative stated that I'm still booked in first, and that the seat maps are current which show that I'm still in row 1 of the first-class equipped A340-600. When I pulled up my reservation online, it does indeed show the seating as first class (only 4 seats across, 2 rows, I'm in row 1). I explained to her that I tried to make another dummy booking into first for the flight but couldn't--only business class is available to book. She restated that I'm in first class and said that more first class seats were not being released at this time.
IHUACA, this time talking to a general LH flight reservation line and she gave the same story.
Any suggestions on what to do? Do I take the airlineroute.net release as gospel and press the issue, or just wait and see what happens. I've got time on my side...
I'm booked on MUC-ORD on Jan. 20, 2017 in first class. When I read about the changes from airlineroute.net I called M&M to try to switch my routing onto the MUC-IAD flight, which according to the release will still have first class. The M&M representative stated that I'm still booked in first, and that the seat maps are current which show that I'm still in row 1 of the first-class equipped A340-600. When I pulled up my reservation online, it does indeed show the seating as first class (only 4 seats across, 2 rows, I'm in row 1). I explained to her that I tried to make another dummy booking into first for the flight but couldn't--only business class is available to book. She restated that I'm in first class and said that more first class seats were not being released at this time.
IHUACA, this time talking to a general LH flight reservation line and she gave the same story.
Any suggestions on what to do? Do I take the airlineroute.net release as gospel and press the issue, or just wait and see what happens. I've got time on my side...
then again, whenever that happened (had it with CGK for example), I was always able to get a good alternative (with CGK they rerouted me via SIN and onwards with SQ even though it was a companion Award). When I had an F flight out of DFW and the flight got canned on that day of the week, the put me on UA DFW-IAH and then IAH-FRA... always took 2-3 calls but always worked out. so would not be too worried that far out.
Apr 29, 2016, 3:36 am
#50
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Bavaria, Germany
Programs: LH Blue, BA Blue, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 1,517
LH, given its self-regard, would probably never cull F entirely but it's quite simple math that extra PA and Y seats that you can reliably fill with paying customers beat a much smaller number of often empty F seats (or F filled with non-paying customers) in terms of the money coming in. And I imagine it's not easy to fill F with paying customers on the shorter long-haul routes because most in the target audience will think C is enough for that flight length.
There are some people on here who at times seem to confuse airplanes with boutique luxury hotels, but at the end of the day it's commercial transportation i.e. applied logistics and not a wish fulfillment vehicle for those fascinated by luxury.
There are some people on here who at times seem to confuse airplanes with boutique luxury hotels, but at the end of the day it's commercial transportation i.e. applied logistics and not a wish fulfillment vehicle for those fascinated by luxury.
However I would like to emphasize that many companies - even when not in the boutique hotel business - maintain a true luxury product. Even if it is selling not very well. If you look on the isolated numbers without any connection to image, marketing success and so on.
If you have a look on the registration figures of one luxury car like the Audi A8 and it's different versions you will be astonished how small the number of produced (and registered) vehicles in Germany is:
http://www.kba.de/SharedDocs/Publika...cationFile&v=3
(Page 12/13)
If you look on the monthly new registration figures of the Audi A8 you can conclude:
+ that it will be very difficult to make profits with that segment given the extraordinary high costs for r&d for a new generation of that car
+ there has to be a reason that the spill-over-effects are valued high by the company.
That said ripping out the First Class is a really no brainer. It allures passengers to Lufty to endure the NEK domestic/short-haul product if you provide the corresponding upselling instruments.
If the internal revenue calculation/contribution of profits for award miles are fine you can very well fill up to 4 seats with these instruments.
With that you can implant a great experience to all passengers once or twice a year who will/have to burn miles. And in the second step heighten the customer loyalty.
So its not a "wish fulfillment" vehicle just a means of showing what a company or airline is able to deliver. ^
On the other hand it is a means within the war of talents: To attract the best pilots and flight attendants to a great carrier and not a low frill clone.
Same like in retail where full service department stores like Karstadt attract also the more motivated people. And you see the cheerless faces in some of the crappy discount stores. Karstadt Lebensmittel (perfetto.de) is a great example for that philosophy and not squeezing out the last cent or revenue from customers and employees.
Apr 29, 2016, 5:01 am
#51
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,754
The main issue in this thread is that while there were not enough revenue passengers to make these flights profitable in F, there were probably plenty of award tickets and upgrades from C (either opups or miles/certificate etc). However (unlike you) I do believe the 40Y and 7Y+ has a much more positive impact on LH bottom line that 8 F upgrades or awards.
All that said, it does seem that if anyone wants to fly F from MUC they should do it soon, as I guess with the A350's going to MUC without F the days of first class service at all from MUC are coming to an end.
Apr 30, 2016, 12:40 am
#54
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: UA*G(1K), PC Diamond Amb, Marriott Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,671
This is a perfect example of the changes LH is making - there are 40 Karstadt food stores in Germany, even though there 82 Karstadt department stores. By comparison there are ~4100 Aldi stores. Some towns & cities cannot sustain such a luxury and expensive offering, as the number of customers willing to pay the premium is very low.
Last time I went to a Karstadt food store, full of memories of a glorious place I wasn't able to afford till now, I found a large number of REWE branded articles. Other customers were loudly wondering if they stumbled into a REWE store by mistake...
This seems like a good example on how to destroy a brand... They can't decide whether they want to be mid-range REWE or high class Karstadt, so I can't decide whether I should go back or not. There are at least 3 REWE stores closer to my home than Karstadt is...
A similar thing is happening to LH. When I pay a premium and find the offering is on par with an LCC, I'll think twice before returning. Just happened again yesterday when I found out I'd have to pay extra in order to reserve a seat on my long haul flights. It just feels so LCC.
HTB.
Apr 30, 2016, 1:48 am
#55
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
Sure the BA product mildly inferior once on board and you have to put up with the food and the accent ... but on the FFP side alone there is no competition. I pay less and get some 2 longhauls on Cathay pro anno more out of it a year.
Oh ... and many more upgrades. So I really only book LH when the price is right. Really, really right.
Apr 30, 2016, 2:29 am
#56
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ORD
Programs: BA, AA, SQ, UA, AC, WS, MR TIT
Posts: 8,659
I believe if LH management stays with the same approach to cost cutting and F cabin pricing, then I predict that in 5 to 10 years LH will drop F completely and become a carrier similar to SAS and AC with only 3 classes of service: J and Y+ and Y.
Apr 30, 2016, 10:24 am
#57
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
Which is quite ideal for a country with de facto a single carrier. A huge country sure ... but just one airline.
May 2, 2016, 8:23 pm
#58
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: GRR, USA
Posts: 3,298
Per a conversation with AirlineRoute guy, they claim that LH has reloaded F inventory to these flights in GDS. Not sure I buy into it, unless LH leaked this too early or changed their minds on the dates. Trying to confirm with trusty sources.
May 2, 2016, 11:29 pm
#60
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Programs: LH Senator
Posts: 256