Lufthansa planing to add REAL business class seats on TLV route (A321?)
Mar 11, 2015, 3:30 pm
#31
Join Date: Aug 2008
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As far as I know the seat pitch is 30" and not 28.
I fly a lot on the TLV-MUC route with both LH, LY and AB. I find the slim seats that LH have to be much more comfortable then the old "regular" seats that LY have. I never noticed an unusually small pitch with LH but I think it has to do with the seat design. My problem with LY is their schedule and ground service in terminal F, all the extra security procedures and questioning makes me a bit uncomfortable (however I do understand why they do it).
I fly a lot on the TLV-MUC route with both LH, LY and AB. I find the slim seats that LH have to be much more comfortable then the old "regular" seats that LY have. I never noticed an unusually small pitch with LH but I think it has to do with the seat design. My problem with LY is their schedule and ground service in terminal F, all the extra security procedures and questioning makes me a bit uncomfortable (however I do understand why they do it).
It is one thing not to have IFE system, but it is completely different to have card board seats that are hardly human-usable (and despite what it sounds like, I am very very flexible and open-minded traveller, who does not complain a lot...)
Mar 12, 2015, 3:30 am
#32
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What I meant was simply to illustrate what can be done product wise with a narrow body aircraft such as the A321.
I know for me, and others have stated thier own preferences, that I no longer purchase premium fares on LH from USA to TLV solely because of the A321 inferior product. LH may have run analytics on things in order to determine it made no sense to offer a better product but this latest announcement would seem to suggest they are rethinking thier policy.
But again, we are not talking about a premium transcon subject to massive competition, we are talking about a market, which did not justify a Widebody any longer, mainly due to the fact that more and more airlines received traffic rights and one daily 744 is just not the only option anymore.
Getting a Widebody like a 744 in the air is expensive enough, so it might have been worthwhile during the regulated era, but it was simply not the case anymore for most of the last years. Again, and as always, LH made the right decision some years ago.
Surprisingly, given the fact they have all the data and the average FT user considers himself to be an expert on that particular route, because he achieved 250 posts on an IBB.
Mar 13, 2015, 5:44 am
#33
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sante Anna, California
Posts: 124
Absolutely, just take a look at the AF A321 Dedicate for thin high yield African markets.
But again, we are not talking about a premium transcon subject to massive competition, we are talking about a market, which did not justify a Widebody any longer, mainly due to the fact that more and more airlines received traffic rights and one daily 744 is just not the only option anymore.
Getting a Widebody like a 744 in the air is expensive enough, so it might have been worthwhile during the regulated era, but it was simply not the case anymore for most of the last years. Again, and as always, LH made the right decision some years ago.
Surprisingly, given the fact they have all the data and the average FT user considers himself to be an expert on that particular route, because he achieved 250 posts on an IBB.
But again, we are not talking about a premium transcon subject to massive competition, we are talking about a market, which did not justify a Widebody any longer, mainly due to the fact that more and more airlines received traffic rights and one daily 744 is just not the only option anymore.
Getting a Widebody like a 744 in the air is expensive enough, so it might have been worthwhile during the regulated era, but it was simply not the case anymore for most of the last years. Again, and as always, LH made the right decision some years ago.
Surprisingly, given the fact they have all the data and the average FT user considers himself to be an expert on that particular route, because he achieved 250 posts on an IBB.
I am not an expert, I am simply reporting how I changed my own practice based on the LH product changing, not related to aircraft type but seating product. LX (most of the time), IB, BA, LY, TK, SU, Transaero (even has a first product), RJ (although its only a 25 minute flight from AMM) all offer a product with at least some type of proper business seating for flights from European cities.
Certainly, other airlines flying nonstop from NA (Where I am based) all offer their best seating product in business (AC, US/AA, DL, etc).
It seems as if LH is at least thinking of installing a business class seat for this route so perhaps there is data to support the change.
Mar 13, 2015, 11:01 am
#34
Join Date: Dec 2008
Programs: UA 1K; LY Gold; DL Gold; BA Bronze
Posts: 2,266
As for IB, the A319 seats are better than LY's 737 business class (more pitch) and much, much better than any domestic US F seat. And they only fly the A330s and A319s with the business club cabin to TLV - no european business class.
Mar 14, 2015, 10:53 am
#35
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I could imagine to live with the NEK product flying Economy Class if I have a good IFE system, hence is that WIFI IFE system offered on all flights to TLV and is it comparable to the long haul product from a content perspective?
Mar 14, 2015, 4:21 pm
#36
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As far as I know all LH flights to/from TLV have the WIFI IFE, but despite flying a lot on the LH MUC-TLV route I never tried it myself. I think for most of us an IFE isn't really necessary on such a short flight, a power socket is much more important on the other hand...
Mar 14, 2015, 4:28 pm
#37
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I have no idea how you can handle the slim seats. I get backache each and every time I am stuck on such a seat for more than two hours.
It is one thing not to have IFE system, but it is completely different to have card board seats that are hardly human-usable (and despite what it sounds like, I am very very flexible and open-minded traveller, who does not complain a lot...)
It is one thing not to have IFE system, but it is completely different to have card board seats that are hardly human-usable (and despite what it sounds like, I am very very flexible and open-minded traveller, who does not complain a lot...)
Mar 20, 2015, 2:12 am
#38
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Mar 20, 2015, 2:15 am
#39
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I can see the occasional A330 on the schedule even before June, and a couple of times weekly from June, but certainly cannot see a daily flight from the winter (I've looked as far forward as January) - Where is that information from, if I may ask?
Mar 20, 2015, 6:38 am
#41
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Mar 20, 2015, 1:20 pm
#42
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Lufthansa planing to add REAL business class seats on TLV route (A321?)
just a weird thought to add....
Why not set up a code share and use the SAA widebodies on this route that sit in FRA/MUC from the morning arrival until the evening departure....?
Revenues should be enough to cover the additional cost for the flight and LH have an excellent product on that route plus SAA a better utilization of their widebodies.
But than again, I have no Background Informationen and I am sure LH has thought about this a long time ago already
Why not set up a code share and use the SAA widebodies on this route that sit in FRA/MUC from the morning arrival until the evening departure....?
Revenues should be enough to cover the additional cost for the flight and LH have an excellent product on that route plus SAA a better utilization of their widebodies.
But than again, I have no Background Informationen and I am sure LH has thought about this a long time ago already
Mar 20, 2015, 1:29 pm
#43
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Mar 21, 2015, 5:24 am
#44
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It does say that IB plans to operate one flight a day using wide-bodied aircraft, but it does not state a starting date.... Sorry for not being accurate.
Mar 23, 2015, 12:04 pm
#45
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gordo6, according to the TLV office they are working hard on getting a daily A330 on the route although nothing set yet.
If it does happen it's likely to be the day flight out of MAD which isn't great.
If it does happen it's likely to be the day flight out of MAD which isn't great.