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Old Jun 16, 02, 9:47 am   #1
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How much do you have to play?

Ive heard various different versions on how much you have to play a hand to get rated. Perhaps the experts can tell us mortals how this all works, and what this gets you. Is it worth getting rated? Does it matter if you play $25 at a $100 table or is it just the amount you play each round that matters? The casinos I like in Vegas are:

- Caesars
- Bellagio
- Venetian


Thanks!!
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Old Jun 16, 02, 12:51 pm   #2
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Obtaining a "rating" is about the same for all casinos. So make a point of getting rated every time you walk into every casino or up to a every table.
Do not stick to only the property you are staying at. I find in general if you visit Vegas enough you find you are often "luckier"
at some places than others ( mine New York and Luxor, places I never stay at)

A)It is very easy and costs nothing, just tell the dealer/pit boss you want to get a rating, they will ask you for your address and the name you want on a card, about 15 mins and they will had you brand new card.
Whenever you play at that casino just present the card at the table and they will take care of the rating automatically.

I find as a craps player if the table is hot and it is easier to get a good rating because all things being equal you may have a lot of money on the table at any given time.
That is why in my opinion craps is the best game to play (if played properly)

B)To be rated at a table, it does not matter if you play the minimum or higher ( but you must play the minimum ie you cannot play less than $100 at a $100 table)

C) Ratings are based loosely on a factor of time spent by amount bet ie in simple terms if you bet $100 for 4 hours your rating will be approximately the same if you bet $400 for one hour.

D) Try get a rating at one of the Park Place
properties they have more casinos and later if you want to get a free stay etc it can be used at all their properties including the Hiltons and Caesar Palace casino nationwide.

E) Finally it may help to utilize " Front Money" ,deposit say $5000 with the casino you want to get you most desirable rating (you dont have to use it all) and withdraw money as you need it. Casinos tend to take this of some indication of the amount of money you may be prepared to lose (though this many not entirely be the case) and they make give a bigger comp in advance.
Hope the above helps.
Mike



[This message has been edited by MIKESILV (edited 06-16-2002).]
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Old Jun 16, 02, 2:28 pm   #3
 
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To add to the above, it also depends where you play. At some of the higher end properties such as Bellagio, $25 average bet for 4 hours may get you a room at the casino rate and perhaps a comp coffee shop meal. The same play at a downtown casino may get you a free room with limited or even full food and beverage. $100 players are treated well on the strip, but are given red carpet treatment downtown.

It also helps to get to know a casino host who is authorized to comp beyond what you may be entitled to based on your theoretical losses.
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Old Jun 16, 02, 2:46 pm   #4
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Most Strip properties won't rate play under $25/hand, and even if they did, I doubt you'd get much.

For most non-whales, you need to decide whether you want VIP treatment downtown or OK treatment on the strip.

Here's what I've been told recently, for a free night:

MGM $80-100/hand
Luxor $100/hand
Mandalay Bay $125/hand

That's based on four hours of play per day.

Personally, I prefer to sign up for a players card at the players card booth, not at the tables. The pit boss and other players at the table will appreciate it if you are ready to sit down and play, not hold up the game with talk of names and addresses, etc.

Also, in addition to Park Place's hotels (Bally's, Paris, Caesars, among others), Mandalay Bay Resort Group (Mandalay Bay, Luxor, Excalibur, Circus Circus, ...) also offering a unified players card system, as is MGM Mirage (MGM, NYNY, Mirage, Bellagio, Treasure Island, ...). Harrahs and Station Casinos have been doing this for a while.

Mandalay Bay's "One Club" is pretty good because they basically let you bank away comp dollars in an account you can view, then choose when and where you want to spend them. MGM Mirage's Player's Club, as far as I know, will still be a "guess your comps" account, where they play the "tell us what/where you want to do/eat/stay, and we'll see what we can do" game. MGM Mirage also decided to spread the implementation of their unified players card system out over more than a year, so it only works in two casinos right now, versus Park Place and Mandalay Bay's, which work in all or nearly all of their casinos.

d
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Old Jun 16, 02, 8:32 pm   #5
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Gaucho,

We've covered it pretty well in this thread ---> http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/000080.html

Most casinos comp in the same range, between 20-40% of your theoretical loss. The comp ratio is not public, and has many dependant factors (if the casino is doing well or not financially, your history there, your relationship with your host/property, time of year, etc). You'll earn comp dollars/points faster on slots/VP because the play is faster, and the tracking is more accurate.

FTraveler has nailed it: The simple truth is that your comp dollar goes farther at the lower end joints because their room rate/overhead is less than the higher end ones. The ones you list are about the same league.

The mitigating factor is that if you play consistently in one place, they'll invite you out to slot or card tournaments, or target you for a weekend stay, typically during a slow time of the year. If you are on the receiving end of these invitations, the casino will throw in the room for the length of the tournament/weekend to entice you to come out. I get offers from the Bellagio and Venetian about once a quarter. If you accept the offer, you're under no obligation to participate in the tournament once you're there. The downside is that if you accept the invitation, and you don't pay to a certain level, the invitations stop coming...

If you're just starting out, the best thing to do is to charge everything to your room. Play the games you like, keep in mind what you're betting. Ensure your to use your players club card on the slots/VP, and ask to be rated when you play tables. Towards the end of the stay, stop by the casino host desk. Hand over you card, and ask them if they can "take care of any of my charges". They'll do one of the following:
  • Blow you off (a good sign that you're not a big enough player for them)
  • Take something off (a good indication of their comp ratio)
  • Comp your room, but not meals (see the one above)
  • Take care of everything
If the last one happens, the host will give you his card, and will practically beg you to come back

The best advice is to play in one casino (one you like ), get a host, bet big enough to keep his/her attention. It's all downhill from there.



[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited 06-17-2002).]
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Old Jun 17, 02, 2:43 am   #6
 
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One small additional point of information.
If you're going to be playing at a $25 or higher table (with the thoughts of getting rated and the comps), don't then drop down to a lower value table, as this will bring your average dollar rate of play down when it comes time to get your comps. And they do base it on the AVERAGE rate of your play.
Was told this by a casino host at MGM, and it makes sense, so if you play at the higher tables, don't ruin your average by "playing down". If you then decide to play at a lower value table, ($10-$15, etc.)this will pull your average rate down--unless of course, you continue with the $25 or higher bets each hand. If you want to play lower, then don't bother giving them your card, as it will lower your already established average play.
Venetian, Bellagio, Caesars won't even rate you (and they'll tell you so) unless you play $25 or more per hand.

bj-21.

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Old Jun 17, 02, 9:11 am   #7
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If you play craps you can improve you rating by making opposing bets.
For example you can bet the a number say 6 comes or does not come at the same time by making bets on different areas of the board. ( in fact there is a strategy to actually win by doing the above but it requires a great deal of patience and the net winning overall is not likely to be large compared to the other table action)
Remember you rating is based on total action,
Mike
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Old Jun 25, 02, 6:04 pm   #8
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Bellagio and Venetian won't comp you a men's room pass unless you play $150/hand for four hours a day. Caesars has really tightened up lately so I wouldn't recommend going there either. Mirage is a very nice hotel that traditionally will give some consideration to green-chip bettors...you might try staying there.
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Old Jun 25, 02, 11:49 pm   #9
 
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Just to fix the english here:

you don't get "rated"... it's not like a movie and you get rated R or PG-13.

The moment you sign up for the casino players card, like the Park Place CONNECTIONS card, or Station's Casino Boarding Pass, they start TRACKING your wins/losses, or "ratings". You can put a nickle in a slot machine, insert your card, and have a "ratings" for that nickle played.

In order to get something free, you need to stay at a table for maybe an hour or so, min bet of $25/hand. Not just a $25 bet or $100 bet (single bet). In the end, casinos normally give you back 5 to 8% of your losses (not 40%.. maybe in Reno, but not Vegas anymore). Some hosts will go as high as 20% if needed, but they can get in trouble for going over that, unless it's a high roller. There was just a HUGE case where the Venetian lost some MEGA top execs and a few hosts for rigging a give-away to a guy who lost $4 mil at the casino... they rigged a promotion to give him a car... so for a $100,000 car to a whale cost them a President, 2 VPs, 3 managers, and about 15 people in lower mgt/casino floor.

-Nate

[This message has been edited by UAPremierExec (edited 06-25-2002).]
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Old Jun 26, 02, 7:42 am   #10
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Look I dont want to disagree with someone who lists Las Vegas as their home however I have been to LV an average of 2 times per year every single year since 1988.

I dont what is said to card players but anytime I been to the craps table I have been approached by a pit boss/supervisior and asked is words like this " do you have our card? would like to get RATED? " I must have been asked that a hundred times.
Now whether the casino uses other terms what
happens after your are "rated " is another matter.
Mike
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Old Jun 26, 02, 12:02 pm   #11
 
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I just talk from experience as a lot of my clients are casino hosts, pit bosses, managers, and senior managers @ the casinos.

All experienced players place their players card down w/ the initial bet and someone will take the card and put down the time you sat down, time you got up, how long you played, what your average bet was, how many wins, how much you lost, etc.

But in Vegas-speak, "ratings" are just a series of #s that indicate your time, loss, win, etc.
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Old Jun 26, 02, 12:08 pm   #12
 
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Gaucho, is there a reason you only want to play at the high end properties? Both Bellagio and Venetian have been in trouble with the gaming board for not keeping up with cash on hand vs. chips in stock... Venetian has been moving alot of money from mall revenues to the casino to cover their butts... lord knows what Bellagio is doing.

If you want GOOD and REAL gaming, seriously, try *ANY* of the Stations Casinos, such as Green Valley Ranch, Santa Fe, Sunset Station, etc. The glitz and glamour of the strip is great, but those 100 foot TVs were paid for somehow.... Even O'Sheas between the Imperial and Flamingo has some good gaming, not to mention Terribles Casino, Arizona Charlies (West), and The Palms (if you can keep your eyes off of the overhead TVs).

-n
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Old Jun 26, 02, 5:12 pm   #13
 
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Love reading threads pertaining to gambling. So much misinformation by so many. My guess is that QuietLion can give the most accurate response to any question on the subject, and he did.
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Old Jun 26, 02, 6:25 pm   #14
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Is this an all-guy conversation? I hope not. We were in Vegas a few weeks ago, stayed at Harrah's. Played at Venetian for a little while (I'm a VP player); went to the player's card booth to see what I had accumulated, and was told I had achieved "gold status". Got a fancy new card, and was told about the Gold Player's Lounge. I went in and looked around, but didn't talk to anybody in the lounge.

Got home and discovered that in order to log into the website, I would have had to establish a PIN while I was there in person. Emailed because I was less than happy that nobody told me this, heard from somebody in Customer Service. She checked to see what offer I might expect next, and it was LESS than an offer I got a couple of years ago when I had played there for less time.

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Old Jun 26, 02, 9:56 pm   #15
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Venetian and Bellagio both have very nice offers for slot players but don't expect any comps beyond what they offer you unless you are a very high roller. If you run $30k/day through, it's worth playing at both places to get some very nice offers.

Don't worry about the V web site - it doesn't tell you much.
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