UA835

I had a very positive experience with the Flamingo lately ... Back in March I played about 2 hrs at a $5 craps table, which was the only time I have ever played at the Flamingo. About a month back, I received a summer offer mailing for 3 comped nights (including weekend), a second room at the casino rate, $50 in Slot Play, plus drinks and buffet 2 for 1's. I was quite surprised with their offer, considering my low-roller status. I do realize that it is the summer, and rooms are relatively cheap, and that this is probably a 'fishing' expedition for them, and that they hope to 'catch' a few high-rollers out of their new accounts.

Fortunately for me, I'm able to take them up on their offer in July.

killerbrew

Good for you.
Don't be so surprised, especially at craps. You're at a $5 table, but you've got side bets, maybe pressing, etc.
Also, I believe at craps tables, they exaggerate your play (give you more comps) if they like you at the table. My Uncle is a very likeable guy and often has the workers and players at the table laughing. Maybe your the same type. They want you back and feel good about exagerrating your play. If that's the case, good for you.

killerbrew

Excellent post. Very informative. I did not realize the comp % had dropped to those levels. I think everyone understood these % are for your expected losses (house advantage) and not actual losses.

The Venetian story is amazing. That will hopefully put fear into all casino execs.

patricia

My husband is a dolphin I would kill him if he spent whale money in LAS and collect his insurance

We played for about 2 years at Mandalay Bay until we got tired of the young studs causing trouble at the tables and moved on

I have found the Green Valley Ranch very enjoyable with great comps
for the last two years.

I think the advice to find a home you like away from the mega casinos is good as we get very personalized attention and the rooms are great. I think the entire experience is what really matters...

stngfn

Has anyone tried a variation of this strategy lately? Will they even let you bet both the Pass and Don't Pass at the same time, since they cancel each other out? Will they count those 2 bets in the average bet? Seems easy enough to get more comp dollars for cheap..

mileage junkie

Re: Korera71's system:

You can bet both Pass and Don't Pass at the same time at any casino. As far as whether or not they'll rate you on the entire bet - it varies widely by casino. In the few casinos I've played in since I started betting this way (and have tried to get a rating on everything I had on the table) - Hard Rock in Vegas did (meal comp), Caesar's in Tahoe would not (I eventually complained to a casino host and was given a generous meal comp after only an hour of play), Harrah's in Tahoe did, (but rated me only after the THIRD roll of each shooter - I have no idea why - I got a meal comp) and they (Harrah's) have extended me some EXTREMELY generous comp offers at ALL their properties (the have a ton of them) since I used Korera71's system in Tahoe last summer. And I'm a fairly LOW roller - at Harrah's I was only a $10 bettor! - albeit I had a LOT of $10 bets out on the table, usually half a dozen or more (pretty easy to do when most of it is not at risk!).

(I wasn't staying at any of those properties when I used the system - so room comps don't apply, although I doubt I would have gotten them, because I never played for long enough, or with big enough chips to rate a free room.) If it's a concern, I STRONGLY advise asking when you start playing whether they're gonna rate you on everything you're betting. This system obviously does not change any odds, but it does allow you to have a lot more money on the table with little risk, and it frequently DOES significantly improve your comps, IF you choose the right property to play at.

If anyone is using this betting system and would like to add to the discussion; one thing I'd be interested in knowing is what ADDITIONAL properties will give you the full 100% rating on your play - to start with and specifically - Mandalay Bay and MGM are the two I'm personally most interested in knowing about.

Thanks,

-mj

StSebastian

I can't speak to comps, but for mathematical play realize that a 12 on the come-out roll (or a 2 at some places) will only push on the Don't Pass and will lose on the Pass Line. That gives you a 2.78% chance of hitting that circumstance (on a per come-out roll basis, or per-roll if you continue with Come and Don't Come), which results in a loss of half of your amount bet. It's important to recognize that the two bets are not offsetting and that there is still a house advantage. Since there's a house advantage, then they'll allow you to play it, though some floor managers and casino hosts I've seen will degrade your overall play rating because your play has a lower house edge, and the rating is supposed to be based on the expected house advantage for your play over time.

QuietLion

I don't get it. You are playing a betting system where you are guaranteed to attract unwanted attention from the pit, have no chance of winning, and a house advantage of 1.4% so you can get back a third of your expected loss in comps? Why not just pay for the room and spend the time out by the pool?

There are many ways to gamble and get comps worth more than your expected loss. I suggest "Comp City" by Max Rubin and "Million Dollar Video Poker" by Bob Dancer.

Craig6z

Even if you aren't trying for comps, Bob Dancer's book is a great read!

StSebastian

I go to play for fun...I'm not going to pass up a good deal, but if you're not having fun, then it's too busy trying to be a job. If I get some free stuff along the way, even better. I think too many people try to play the system without realizing that the house isn't stupid, and while a few people may win at some "system" they come up with, it'll be dumb luck and the significant majority will lose.

There are people who make a job out of the games that you can play well and beat, but I'm not interested in that (at least, not yet).

billiam

Bumping an old thread, but I think it'd be good to keep the info in one thread instead of starting a new one....

I have some questions about how MGM, Wynn, Bellagio, and Venetian, and Mandalay Bay rates play on craps tables:
1. does any of them rate your play counting the odds bets?

2. whats the bet threshold for getting rated, is it $25, or more like $50 per come out roll nowadays?

I'm debating between playing VP or craps on my next trip...
Thanks.

baccarat_king

Unfortunately, the rating of odds bets changes all the time, but to the best of my knowledge, Venetian DOES count the odds as part of your rating. TI and Mirage as of March DID NOT. Harrahs and RIO do, but, you can never really figure out what Harrahs is doing anyway.

$25 is fine for a craps rating at all strip properties, but if it is a $10 table, you do NOT need to bet $25 on the line to get rated, as long as you are place betting some numbers. Say, $10 on the line, $20 in odds and the 6 and 8 for $12 each. The odds bets are great, but they can really be a bankroll killer. If you are NEW to craps, I strongly suggest at least 10x the amount you have out for a shooter. Sometimes, it is best to lay low on the odds if you are short on cash.

I personally am basically a place better, 6 and 8 for $30 or $60 each is my standard. Vig is low on these numbers, and I am just fine with bypassing the come out roll. I always get sucked into putting too much money on the odds when I am betting on the line.... great if someone is hitting their numbers... Also, most Vegas properties only charge the vig. on winning buy bets --- so, a $25 buy on the 4 or 10 every so often is NOT a bad deal.

Also, if you are really into odds --- Casino Royale offers 100x odds.

One final thought.... don't be bashfull at questioning the crew about anything you are unsure of. You can always ask at the table how they will be rating you with respect to the odds. Also, I almost always ask at the end of a session, what my rating looks like... while they are coloring up my chips... [only exception to this is a very short 20 or 30 minute session...] though, most of the time I am at the table for at least 2-3 hours.

and... don't forget about the darkside betting is craps... but that is another topic entirely.....

Craps is a great game... probably the best in the Casino [yes, probably even better than baccarat ]
VP can be great too, but you really have to search for the right machines on the strip... and this is becoming more difficult all the time --- especially if you do NOT play $1 or $5 machines... but, it is great to have more than one game to go between when things aren't working out... also... don't forget mini-baccarat... excellent side game; and you can drink as much as you want, because you have no decisions [except which way to bet] to make.

billiam

I guess I'm not too hot on the 6/8 place bets, but I guess the occasional won't hurt too much... I'm wondering if I can get rated by with consistently betting 10 on the line and 20 in odds OR 20-30 on the line and not bet any on odds (depending on how the current streak looks, ie lots of rolls per come out or not) at the bigger strip props. It'd be great if I can get rated with that level of action for a few hours.

regarding place bets, I guess I'll try these bets a few times if I'm up a bit.

Actually, I was ALREADY thinking of betting mostly don't pass and laying odds. Although one has to be willing to switch back and forth I think based on the situation. I'm definitely not adverse to playing the don't pass line.

Yeah, thats why I'm leaning away from VP, even with VPfree lists, sometimes the good machines are taken by other gamblers, moved, etc, basically not available. Plus, I don't have enough practice down yet to max my edge, so thats why I'm leaning towards craps.

baccarat_king

IMHO, switching back and forth will DRIVE YOU NUTS !!! It is often better to determine your course of action [possibly based on the trend] and stick with it. If you lose on 3 or 4 shooters IN A ROW.... get out of there --- do NOT walk... RUN from the table... My favorite motto is to often cut my loses and live to play another day/session.

Though, a mini-martingale on the don't side is OK --- if you can control yourself...

Say.. bet $20 -- if you lose, raise it to $40 --- if you lose, raise it to $60 --- 3 in a row loses... leave.. as soon as you win, regress back to the $20 bet. You can work out your comfort level with the win progressions...

Also, odds on the DON'T are NOT a good deal [like they are on the RIGHT SIDE] it is the opposite as the odds on the right side --- yes, yes, yes... I know.. the math says.. blah blah blah... BUT, you need to lay out twice as much... the returns are just not that good.
FOR EXAMPLE, on the Don't Side
if the point is a 4 or 10 you lay $10 in odds to win $5
if the point is a 6 or 8 you lay $6 in odds to win $5

Also, my opinion with odds bets is that you are trying to DECREASE the overall house edge... but WITH THE DON'T SIDE you have the advantage after the come out roll --- the 7 is NOW your friend.... so why lay out more money to get these NOT so great returns... once again, my opinion...

bocastephen

Are there any good books or articles that go into 'dark side' strategies? I have played the don't side alot, and other than don't pass and don't come, there aren't alot of opportunities to get money working for you on the table - at least for me as a novice craps player.

One strategy I thought might work is a 'hedge'...I have money on the don't pass, and the point is made. I then put money on the come box - if the shooter 7s out at that point, I win on the don't pass to cover my come bet...if they roll a number for my come bet, I am basically worst case even at that point, right? If they 7 out later, my don't covers my come bet loss - if they roll my come point, i can win something while I wait for them to 7 out (or cover my don't pass loss if they make the original point before a 7).

Feel free to send a flame missile if my logic is totally flawed.