Boston to Hong Kong starting today through the end of the year. What the first available date for B6 fights?
Thanks!
You already failed the test. The topic is the odds of getting a seat you want on a flight you want on a date you want with miles/points. NOT about to where you can redeem those points/miles. Stay on topic.
Fine, you name the test. You made the claim, remember. Now please back it up.
I give credit where credit is due, as much as I hate the airline I'm about to mention...It's actually a Southwest effect, if you want to call it that.
Agreed and disagreed.
Agree: The Southwest Effect is the impact on the industry in 1978 (and still today) in the markets that WN serve(s/d). But you can't tell me there's no "JetBlue Effect" in those respective markets. Southwest introduced the effect - JetBlue just expanded it to other markets/routes.
Then shouldn't it be called the "Southwest effect" since they started it?
Then shouldn't it be called the "Southwest effect" since they started it?
Since you like to be so technical, allow me to clarify with specific examples:
Southwest Effect: 1972, WN starts flying DAL-HOU (not positive if exact route/year is correct, but that's not the point). O/W fares on other airlines averaged say $300 each way. WN averages $59 O/W. Again, sample figures and all. That's the Southwest Effect.
JetBlue Effect: 2000, B6 starts service on JFK-BUF. Average O/W fares on US (again all sample figures) is $400. B6 averages $79. US drops fares, adds frequencies. JetBlue Effect!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetBlueNYFL
Since you like to be so technical, allow me to clarify with specific examples:
Southwest Effect: 1972, WN starts flying DAL-HOU (not positive if exact route/year is correct, but that's not the point). O/W fares on other airlines averaged say $300 each way. WN averages $59 O/W. Again, sample figures and all. That's the Southwest Effect.
JetBlue Effect: 2000, B6 starts service on JFK-BUF. Average O/W fares on US (again all sample figures) is $400. B6 averages $79. US drops fares, adds frequencies. JetBlue Effect!
Well, WN started flyingin June '71, not in '72. Airlines were regulated by the CAB until late '78, with the deregulation process taking a few years; prior to that the CAB set fares in most markets.
And there is no such thing as the JetBlue effect. Copying another company's methods doesn't mean you get to rename them after yourself. Your example above suggests that there also was a Midwest Express effect and a Frontier effect and a Porter's Air effect and probably a low more. The big difference is that WN has been consistently profitable with their approach, something none of the other carriers who have attempted it have done.
And thanks for making up all the numbers for your specific examples. Nothing shouts "specific" to me like numbers that are admittedly made up.
And there is no such thing as the JetBlue effect. Copying another company's methods doesn't mean you get to rename them after yourself. Your example above suggests that there also was a Midwest Express effect and a Frontier effect and a Porter's Air effect and probably a low more. The big difference is that WN has been consistently profitable with their approach, something none of the other carriers who have attempted it have done.
I'm not going to weigh in on the frequent flyer argument, because I see the merits of both sides (jetBlue's program is much more limited in scope and doesn't appeal to international or infrequent or many business travelers, but may have somewhat easier redemption for certain trips like one-ways), and I admittedly don't know enough to give a good assessment.
But, I did want to point out that the "JetBlue Effect" has been rather well documented. Yes, it is essentially the "Southwest Effect," but it has earned its own moniker because, as with Southwest, it seems to apply to almost any market that jetBlue enters* (*Given current market conditions, this may not hold true any more, but historically it has been the case). Your other examples (Midwest, Frontier, Porter) may indeed provide specific city-pair examples where this has occurred, but only Southwest and JetBlue can claim to have demonstrated this effect coast-to-coast on literally hundreds of routes, and only these two have been granted nickname status in print. The effect, in short: fares drop dramatically and passenger counts greatly increase on routes where JetBlue and Southwest introduce service. Southwest certainly deserves founder's credit here, but JetBlue has earned its title (and, in fact, has made its most dramatic impact on transcon routes that Southwest has mostly avoided).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetBlueNYFL
Since you like to be so technical, allow me to clarify with specific examples:
Southwest Effect: 1972, WN starts flying DAL-HOU (not positive if exact route/year is correct, but that's not the point). O/W fares on other airlines averaged say $300 each way. WN averages $59 O/W. Again, sample figures and all. That's the Southwest Effect.
JetBlue Effect: 2000, B6 starts service on JFK-BUF. Average O/W fares on US (again all sample figures) is $400. B6 averages $79. US drops fares, adds frequencies. JetBlue Effect!
So basically any airline that goes into a new market with a lower price than the competition is the "X Airline Effect," yes? If that's the case then there is also the AA Effect, the DL Effect, the UA Effect, etc.
You already failed the test. The topic is the odds of getting a seat you want on a flight you want on a date you want with miles/points. NOT about to where you can redeem those points/miles. Stay on topic.
Places I've redeemed my frequent flyer points, +/- 1 day of when I or someone on my points/miles wanted to go. All tickets were at the "discounted" saver rate.
As far as calculating the true odds, I donno. But I can say that on my NW miles, I've gotten where I wanted to go in the class of service I wanted to travel in (only exception being the SIN-NRT) and always at the lowest advertised reward level.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieuwer2
Looking at Thanksgiving flights to MSY. $600+ right now.
Thanksgiving is the single busiest travel weekend of the year, IIRC. ~ $600 r/t for a NYC-MSY ticket over that weekend is not so unusual. People are willing to pay those fares, like it or not, hence the high LFs. What's the competition averaging?
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Thanksgiving is the single busiest travel weekend of the year, IIRC. ~ $600 r/t for a NYC-MSY ticket over that weekend is not so unusual. People are willing to pay those fares, like it or not, hence the high LFs. What's the competition averaging?
I was planning to depart on thursday, back on sunday. Thursday is TG day so should be cheaper, which it is. Competition is about $500. Flight maps show plenty of empty seats.
B6 has been selling about 2 seats a week so a full plane would take one year to fill. Besides, a hurricane may come and crush MSY.
B6 has been selling about 2 seats a week so a full plane would take one year to fill. Besides, a hurricane may come and crush MSY.
Keep in mind that not everyone books more than 4 months out. A lot of times people will wait until the date gets a little closer to tie up travel details dispite actual knowing for a while where they will be for a holiday (i.e. Do we go Wednesday night or Thursday morning? What able work/vacation time?).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieuwer2
I was planning to depart on thursday, back on sunday. Thursday is TG day so should be cheaper, which it is. Competition is about $500. Flight maps show plenty of empty seats.
B6 has been selling about 2 seats a week so a full plane would take one year to fill. Besides, a hurricane may come and crush MSY.
You should've booked at the $600 fare. It is $339+ going down and $409+ coming back for those dates right now for a whopping total of $769 all in.
CO will get you there non-stop for $369 total, as long as you're willing to fly at 6:20am on the return with either Wednesday or Thursday on the outbound.
You should've booked at the $600 fare. It is $339+ going down and $409+ coming back for those dates right now for a whopping total of $769 all in.
CO will get you there non-stop for $369 total, as long as you're willing to fly at 6:20am on the return with either Wednesday or Thursday on the outbound.
Sorry, but you are misinformed. Flight is still $639. I just checked. Besides, this trip is DISCRETIONARY. I do not have to go to MSY.
I can also save the $600 and buy oil futures to speculate on oil going to $200...
That said, I just got my stimulus check in the mail today. Hmmm...
Moderator: Travel Technology, Travel Photography and JetBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieuwer2
Sorry, but you are misinformed. Flight is still $639. I just checked. Besides, this trip is DISCRETIONARY. I do not have to go to MSY.
I can also save the $600 and buy oil futures to speculate on oil going to $200...
I messed up on the Wednesday/Thursday bit; you are correct that there are still some cheap flights available on Thursday. But all the flights on that Sunday are pricing at $409 right now, which is full Y. There are no discounted/non-refundable seats available. Waiting until Monday will drop you down to $199++ each way, which is still more than CO has on your desired dates.
I get that it is discretionary travel. All the more reason to be price sensitive and go with the least expensive option, right? Or is there some additional value that you'd be willing to quantify in the form of a higher fare to fly B6 on that weekend?
