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Join Date: Apr 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieuwer2
What are "high" load factors? More than 80%?
And, below what load factor would the flight be axed? Less than 60%?
Based on the numbers released yesterday the average across the carrier is ~80% and has been - plus or minus 5 points - for a while now. Load factors are not a direct correlation to a profitable flight (100% LF at $20 fares would lose money every time), but if the average fares continue to tick up and the LF remains steady that is a good indication that JetBlue is deriving more income from the flights that they are operating.
I have defected to DL on the JFK-SEA route. I fly this route about 4-5 times a year and would stick to B6 when they were 10-20 bucks more. But when it got to be more than 100 dollars more, I made the move to DL with my wife and save over 1000 dollars a year sorry B6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playsmart
I have defected to DL on the JFK-SEA route. I fly this route about 4-5 times a year and would stick to B6 when they were 10-20 bucks more. But when it got to be more than 100 dollars more, I made the move to DL with my wife and save over 1000 dollars a year sorry B6
I respect your decision to save $1,000 a year. However, it's unfortunate that people don't remember a time not long ago when air fares on a route such as this one were WAY overpriced. Shifting 'loyalty' so quickly might lead to the discontinuation of that route, causing the DL fares to SKY ROCKET with less competition.
__________________ HAPPY JETTING! Posts by jetBlueNYFL are not representative of the official views and/or opinions of JetBlue Airways.
Moderator: Travel Technology, Travel Photography and JetBlue
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 29,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetBlueNYFL
I respect your decision to save $1,000 a year. However, it's unfortunate that people don't remember a time not long ago when air fares on a route such as this one were WAY overpriced. Shifting 'loyalty' so quickly might lead to the discontinuation of that route, causing the DL fares to SKY ROCKET with less competition.
At least they gave B6 some business when both were low instead of taking advantage of the B6 effect of lower prices while continuing to fly the legacy.
Still, the fact remains that the vast majority of the travelling public is incredibly price sensitive, despite what they say in focus groups, surveys and other marketing research. People say that they want comfort, service, food, etc. but when push comes to shove the CC will head to the lowest fare incredibly often.
And loyalty has a price, but it shouldn't be that high. There's no way I'd pay $100 more to fly a specific carrier on a transcon route. I have trouble justifying $20 extra on a run to Florida.
Still, the fact remains that the vast majority of the travelling public is incredibly price sensitive, despite what they say in focus groups, surveys and other marketing research. People say that they want comfort, service, food, etc. but when push comes to shove the CC will head to the lowest fare incredibly often.
I'm guilty of the above as well. We can all whine and complain that we want everything, as I do, but when I compare costs i'm going to choose the cheapest option 9 times out of 10.
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It looks like B6 is more willing to vary prices based on a guess at yield than other airlines... for SEA-BOS the week of 12/15, AS is 229/229/289/369/369 as you move towards Christmas, and B6 is 169/219/279/359/439... so the average fare is just about the same and B6 is even a little cheaper, unless you want to go on Friday like I do...
So it would be nice for us as passengers if B6 were always cheaper, but it appears they're smart enough to know when their product is attractive enough to sell at a premium.
It's purely anecdotal, but I had always found JetBlue to be more expensive than the legacies for the flights that I've needed. It's got to the point that I don't even check JetBlue anymore. Even if it were a few dollars cheaper, not being able to earn miles towards international awards is a major issue for me.
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New York to London via Bangkok....Is there really any other way?
Still, the fact remains that the vast majority of the travelling public is incredibly price sensitive, despite what they say in focus groups, surveys and other marketing research. People say that they want comfort, service, food, etc. but when push comes to shove the CC will head to the lowest fare incredibly often.
And loyalty has a price, but it shouldn't be that high. There's no way I'd pay $100 more to fly a specific carrier on a transcon route. I have trouble justifying $20 extra on a run to Florida.
Agreed. I cannot justify $100 extra for a business trip. I can pick a non-stop, but it has to be the cheapest. For leisure travel, I usually pick the most convenient flight, regardless of price.
I am still a huge B6 fan and I can't wait for the prices to lower again to step beck on the A320, but the fact is, the economy sucks and wherever we can save a buck we will.
My wedding was held in Seattle back in 06 and I remember about 50 of us flying out on the morning B6 flight and it was a blast. The crew was great and really welcomed the whole family. You probably would not find that on a legacy.
I have business in PIT about 5 times a year and I am thankful everyday that B6 came in to give competition to US......I ran from US as fast as possible, unfortunately the rest of those asses in PIT so the prices come down but still stuck to US.
SBM12 is right though. At the end of the day, we are a price sensitive country right now and brand loyalty takes a back seat.
Moderator: Travel Technology, Travel Photography and JetBlue
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playsmart
SBM12 is right though. At the end of the day, we are a price sensitive country right now and brand loyalty takes a back seat.
It has always been a price sensitive country; this is nothing new. Maybe the margin that people are willing to pay for the loyalty is dropping as the base fare is rising, but I do not think that, as a society, there has ever been all that much brand loyalty in flying, especially across the bottom of the market.
For work I was never forced to buy the cheapest fare, especially if a non-stop was available over connections, but I was always expected to purchase a fare that was fair and in the best interests of the client/company. But it let me show some loyalty, especailly when I could justify a business reason for spending $10-50 extra on every flight if it meant I'd actually be able to work on the plane and get where I was going with the best chances of being on time. But I wouldn't spend a hundred dollars extra just for the miles. That is easier when it is a small company, but forcing the lowest fare without other consideration may put you on a multi-carrier, multi-stop routing taking 2x longer than a non-stop that is $50 more. That is $50 well spent.
...loyalty has a price, but it shouldn't be that high. There's no way I'd pay $100 more to fly a specific carrier on a transcon route....
Well, exactly... it's the degree of difference that counts. Everyone becomes price sensitive at some point -- not even Bill Gates will spend $100 for a cup of coffee. So, of course it's a price-sensitive country; it's a price-sensitive universe.
But not everyone is totally, completely, 100% price-influenced, which is the argument / supposition you often hear from airlines. Would I spend $25 to $50 above the lowest rate to fly B6 instead of UA? Yes. (And remember that even though I get much more inflight from B6, I also give up a lot when I fly B6: departing when I want to depart, peace of mind about a Plan B in the event of tech cancellations, meaningful FF miles, international redemption, etc. These -- admittedly minor -- factors devalue the B6 proposition.) But too often, B6 prices itself above the "consideration zone."
And it's not one sample trip where I see this, it's multiple trips. This past weekend I flew SEA-BTV on a trip for a very price-conscious (non-profit) prospect. I couldn't come up with a B6 roundtrip below $500, and I could make a UA/CO combo come in at $350, so guess where I wound up -- unhappy, uncomfortable, but stuck.
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I just want to add something about brand loyalty. Personally, I don't see any reason to be "loyal" to B6. Sure, the 100 points will give you a free flight, but if I switched to B6 based on price, then a free RT shouldn't cost me more than $300 (my limit for a transcon flight). My main reason of thinking about going to B6 is obviously to save a buck or two while flying an acceptable coach product.
Now, for legacy airlines, especially United, it's a whole new ball park. As an 1K, I receive 6 confirmable system wide upgrades per year, 2 confirmable regional (US, Canada and Mexico) and four 500 mile upgrades for every 10,000 miles flown. I also receive double redeemable miles on every flight flown. I flew more than 100,000 BIS miles last year to requalify for 1K, mostly domestic transcon/midcons and out of those 50+ flights, I've only sat in coach on 1 leg. Yep, 1 leg. I sat in First or Business for the rest for FREE thanks to my complimentary upgrades.
I also get tons of miles. For instance, a transcon i.e. LAX-JFK roundtrip, I get 2475*4 = 9900 miles. Essentially, that's fly 2.5 get 1 free!! How many time do you have to fly B6 to get a free ticket? I believe it's 16 per RT transcon, right? so you'd have to do 6.5 RTs!!!! Also, UA miles get me on Star Alliance. For instance, I just used my miles on an award ticket in Singapore F to Asia, something I wouldn't be able to do with B6.
My whole reason for wanting to switch over to B6 is to save a buck. I am willing to pay a $20-$40 premium like others to fly B6, but at $100-$200 why would I want to do that? I might as well use that premium to buy another trans ticket on UA to do MRs to reearn my status, get more redeemable miles, fly first for free and stay 1K.
I also get tons of miles. For instance, a transcon i.e. LAX-JFK roundtrip, I get 2475*4 = 9900 miles. Essentially, that's fly 2.5 get 1 free!! How many time do you have to fly B6 to get a free ticket? I believe it's 16 per RT transcon, right? so you'd have to do 6.5 RTs!!!!
If booked online, 4 transcons, plus 1 short-range trip will get you a free ticket.
If booked online, 4 transcons, plus 1 short-range trip will get you a free ticket.
And, FWIW:
1. Its really 2 free one-ways, so open jaw and/or separate trips can be done
2. Availability is generally strong, even on the transcons.
I accept that for some people, legacies might provide more benefits, but then there is some intrinsic value to flexible one-way awards with no miles premium, and overall availability of dates you actually want to fly.
