ChaseTheMiles

Japan is a lovely country and there are many temples to visit. However, there is a distinction between Buddhist Temples and Shinto Shrines. While Buddhism is a religion of compassion and tolerance, Shintoism worships the Emperor as the direct descendant of the Sun Goddess, and was the driving force behind Japan's WWII military aggression.

Japan has continued to whitewash its WWII history and refuse to officially apologize and recompense the victims of its war crimes, slavor labor, comfort women, germ warfare, etc. The young people of Japan are brought up on revised history books which neglect to mention any of the atrocities committed by Japan.

As an individual, there's not much that I can do but to make it a principle not to visit any Shinto Shrines when I travel to Japan.

Since there are many beautiful and serene Buddhist temples to visit, in addition to other historical landmarks, it's not a loss to avoid a Shinto Shrine.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world..._chorlton.html

afang

I completely agree...

CTANK

I also agree.

Potreroflyr

Hmmm...does that mean people should avoid the Catholic church? There were those regretful crusades.

Chiangi

Would you guys happen to know how many 'revised' history textbooks there are and possibly are in actuality used and read by junior high students?

jpatokal

At the risk of feeding a three-year-old troll...

This is ridiculous. Shinto is the religion of some 100 million people, and it's a lot more concerned with ritual purity than Emperor-worship. During WW2 even Buddhism was officially roped in as a form of Shinto... and if you think Buddhism is all peace, light and happiness, punch "sohei hiei" into your favorite search engine and read up on Japan's armies of warrior monks.

There's also the little practical point that shrines are, by and large, free to enter so boycotting them doesn't matter one jot. If you oppose the Japanese government's textbook certification process -- and note that there isn't just one textbook per course, but many approved ones that handle controversial issues differently -- then register your displeasure with the government and don't visit Japan at all.

miles4all

Fully agree with Jpatokal!

If you dont agree with government policy, dont take it out on the Shinto Shrines. What happens in Japan with the memory of WW2 is not good, but to blame this religion for it doesnt seem the solution.

ChaseTheMiles

(FT must have installed some new functions--I just saw all the notifications for new posts to the old thread.)

This topic may be an old thread, but sentiment remains the same because somethings still haven't change. Japan still has not redeemed itself by apologizing, acknowledging, or compensating for its war crimes.

I had said to avoid Shinto Shrines, not because the religion is necessarily the culprit; usually people in power are the ones who exploit and abuse the religious messages. However, the Shinto Shrines, especially the main one in Tokyo houses the names of the WWII war criminals. The Japanese PM, against the protests of all neighboring Asian countries, has visited to pay his respects to the war criminals at the Shinto Shrine.

As I said, if Japan has redeemed itself with the kind of sincerity and effort like Germany has done (e.g. Holocause Museum), I might think differently of visiting the Shinto Shrines. But, as long as there are many Japanese who think the Rape of Nanking did not even occur despite testimonials from Westerners and actual film footage, I will at least abide by my personal principle of not stepping inside a shinto shrine.

By the way, if you don't agree with my thoughts on the Shinto Shrines, you are more than welcome to go visit the Shrines yourself; but please don't tell me not to post information here that just might be important to someone who plans to visit Japan.



[This message has been edited by ChaseTheMiles (edited Mar 17, 2004).]

tide

The OP is obviously confused between the religion itself (benign) and the rhetoric of politics that used the religion during the war.

Advice for the OP: might as well not talk to any Japanese - Shinto is inseparable from their culture.

jpatokal

No, Japan has apologized, acknowledged and compensated for its crimes (comfort women and chemical weapons left buried in China, just to name two). But you can well argue that Japan hasn't a/a/c enough or admitted all its war crimes, and then I would agree with you.

"The main one"? Shinto's biggest shrines are the ones dubbed "taisha" (great shrine), the most important of which are in Ise and Izumo -- not Tokyo. These are devoted to the worship of various Japanese primordial deities and have nothing, zippo, nada to do with WW2 or even the Emperor. (Ise Taisha, for instance, is devoted to the sun goddess Amaterasu.)

What you are probably referring to is Yasukuni Shrine, which is the shrine to all of Japan's war dead. In Shinto theory, everybody who died in or because of any of Japan's wars (not just WW2) has his soul resting there. Some people find it distasteful that prisoners executed by the occupation forces for war crimes are included; me, I mostly just wonder what else they're supposed to do? It's not like Yasukuni is full of Tojo statues or something. Buddhists pray for the salvation of all beings, should we boycott them because this includes Hitler?

I don't see anybody trying to censor you here... but we will set your facts straight, and frankly, if you have a beef with Japan then you should take a more radical step and not go at all, preferably dropping a note to JNTO to explain why.

FWIW, the most infuriating place I've been to in Japan is Hiroshima's "Peace Memorial Museum" (read: atom bomb museum). The basic storyline is "there we were, happily sniffig daisies and wishing peace and happiness for everybody, when the eeeeeeeeeeeeeevil Americans dropped a nasty nuke on us for no reason at all!". Howls of protest eventually made them modify the first room of the exhibit a little to mention the tiny irrelevant detail that Japan started the war and raped most of Asia, but I believe eg. the Nanjing "Incident" (as the J. like to call it) is still not covered. If you want to boycott something, boycott this.

ChaseTheMiles

jpatokal, thanks for your reply. However, Japan has never officially apologized, acknowledged, nor compensated for its war crimes. Private expression of sorrow from government officials doesn't count. Offering money to Comfort Women surivors through a private foundation in exchange for their silence doesn't count. Admitting the existance and compensating for chemical weapons left behind only because construction workers found something recently and got hurt doesn't count. Allowing war criminals whose crimes were as vile as Hitler's inside a place or worship doesn't cut it either. The fact that the young Japanese I've met don't seem to know much about this dirty chapter of their history is the proof that not enough was mentioned in their schools.

As I've said, if there had been official acknowledgement and redeeming actions, then it's easier to the rest of us to be more forgiving. Japan needs to take the first step. If you read the news, you would know that time and again the Tokyo courts have struck down suits filed by atrocity survivors for technicality reasons. It's going to take private citizens such as ourselves to continue to spread the word, because the Japanese government is obviously determined to hide its ugly history for pride, shame, or whatever reason.

Why do I want to visit Japan? As I've stated already, Japan is a country of natural beauty, and it's also a place where a lot of cultural achievements and artifacts are preserved well. You might thank the American occupation forces under General McArthur who had an appreciation for the Oriental culture to have helped preserve the Japanese monarchy and cultural heritage, whereas Japan's legacy in the Asian countries it invaded is that of murder, looting, raping, and pillage.

I am glad we agree on the Hiroshima memorial. Again, it's quite a hypocrisy to make the atomic bombs the criminal and not Japan itself.




[This message has been edited by ChaseTheMiles (edited Mar 19, 2004).]

luxury

Deleted on 8 May 2004

tgitbd

If you are going to make such harsh statements and stands...you should at least do your research!

"During World War II, Japanese Buddhist literature from that time, as part of its support of the Japanese war effort, stated "In order to establish eternal peace in East Asia, arousing the great benevolence and compassion of Buddhism, we are sometimes accepting and sometimes forceful. We now have no choice but to exercise the benevolent forcefulness of 'killing one in order that many may live' (issatsu tashō). This is something which Mahayana Buddhism approves of only with the greatest of seriousness..."[162] Almost all Japanese Buddhists temples strongly supported Japan's militarization"

And let's not forget the monks who lit themselves on fire because their religion told them to. Don't be so ignorant next time you wish to infect the world with your opinions. EVERY RELIGION ON THE PLANET HAS DONE BAD THINGS! That doesn't mean the entire faith is to blame.

Pickles

Let's countdown to the lock! All together now... 3!...2!...1!...

5khours

To say nothing of September 1931 incident when thousands of Japanese Jehovah Witnesses marched in Yokohama in support of the invasion of China.