FFlash

Thanks guys for helping me out on this, I really appreciate! ^ Especially the insights on Okayama places to visit by abmj-jr. The photos, however bad you might think they are, were just a nice piece of confirmation that those places should be enough to see around and not trying to stress too much on agenda by commuting too far.

FFlash

This.
Actually, the commuting time is not a sacrifice at all for us. It will be first time Japan, so train is a perfect method to see out window the sceneries! So we could sit 24hrs on train basically.

But, why I am considering after all not to take day trip from Okayama-Kyoto, are the facts like:

1) Too packed tourists everyplace (mea culpa ) making it awful
2) Need to reserve seats beforehand, since we want to flex timing and all.
3) Possibility of losing track of what ticket types we are allowed to enter which train and no language skills of Japanese and all that hassle which may end in too much worries, even if I am pretty seasoned traveller

Regarding those, after reading your comments, I interpret as follows:

1-Kyoto seems to be favored over Osaka, but IS packed. Avoid. Okayama is less touristy.
2-Standing on trains with no seats is not a problem for us, but I am not sure if I HAVE to own a reserved seat to enter a train, or can I enter any train irrespective of whether it is sold out or not?
3-If I were alone, I would not care about this matter. But I have company and I don't want to make her life too stressy

FFlash

Yes I did note CP Kobe, which was reasonably available, but this is a pure cost question, as I got CP Okayama on IHG pointbreaks which is practically free of charge. We could save that cost by commuting, so we stay in Okayama anyway.

I have studied the Wide Pass for travel and it sounds like perfect for us. First I thought to take the wider pass to cover also Hiroshima but I discarded the idea as people comment not really worth to see.

Thanks for an exact proposal for morning catch train to KIX. That was what I really needed. That timing is perfect and my remaining question is that if that timetable keeps or are there usually disruptions due to tourism or traffic jams/accidents? If smooth, then we will pick that train combo - after all it will save us a lot of dime instead of moving to KIX hotel Nikko which runs above 200$ the last night.

evergrn

Most JR limited express trains (including shinkansen and Haruka) have both reserved and non-reserved seating cars. Reserved seating means it's designated seating and you have to reserve (either on the spot or in advance) The rules for Kansai Wide Pass state that you cannot ride in reserved seating cars. Reserved seating cars can be sold out, but non-reserved cars don't sell out per se even though all the seats may be taken (in which case you stand in the aisle or take your chances on the next train). So you don't need reservation to ride shinkansen with the pass... you just need to make sure you get on the non-reserved car/compartment.

I doubt the schedule will change. Significant service delays and disruptions are always possible, but they're fairly rare. If it happens, it happens. I will say that there'll be more contingency plans available in terms of transport to KIX, if you stay at CP Kobe (eg, airport express bus from Nishinomiya). Anyways, if it were me, I generally don't let remote possibilities dictate my vacation plans.

abmj-jr

Short of a major event, such as earthquake, volcanic eruption, 50-year storm or something similar - in other words a rare occurrence - the Japanese rail system is among the most reliable anywhere. Trains operate on time to the minute. In the last 15 years, I have only experienced a delay of more than 10 minutes once. On the other hand, I have made flight connections as far as from Fukuoka, on Kyushu Island, to KIX, on the shinkansen + Haruka. The chances you would miss your flight after departing on an appropriate train are very, very slim.

In case you haven't found it, an excellent rail planning tool is HyperDia. You need to enter the correct name of each station. The stations mentioned so far are Kansai Airport, Kyoto, Shin-Osaka, Shin-Kobe, Himeji, Okayama and Kurashiki. Note that "KIX" will not be recognized and "Osaka" is a completely different station.

http://www.hyperdia.com/en/

evergrn

I agree that Jpn rail system is among the most reliable. I maintain (as I'd pointed out above) that, if I were the OP, I'd feel safe to think that the trains will run on time and therefore would plan my hotel/trip on that assumption... esp given that his transfer time at ShinOsaka is almost 20min.

However, I've encountered plenty of delays personally. I think it depends on the line. Many lines never have delays and run to the exact minute. But some lines are very delay-prone. I've only ridden that new Ueno-Tokyo Line a few times, but it's already been considerably late (>5min) for me at least twice for no good reason. The Azusa / Super Azusa from Kofu to Hachioji/Shinjuku is habitually late... I feel like it runs ~10min late at least 10% of the time. Last month I rode Nanbu line for a transfer at Tachikawa to go to a fairly important event. Things worked out as expected, but the next day Nanbu line literally shut down in the middle of the day for a few hours. And if we're including just a couple minutes' delay, then I feel like I run into a delay or two at some point on most of my trips to Jpn. But again it could be the particular trains that I tend to take. Anyways, always a good idea to build in some margin for error for train transfers, especially on critical trips like going to the airport.

abmj-jr

I understand the point evergreen made above but it should be noted that all of the critical connections in this case are on shinkansen or limited express Japan Rail lines. JR has a much better on-time record for those lines.

FFlash

So, train it is in the morning to KIX. If the night sleep becomes bad, we can always sleep during travel back home

Thanks again for your hospitality on my questions. Now the trip has taken form and we can do our search on what to see etc.

^

cruisr

I would avoid Kyoto. I was so disappointed as I had thought it would be a different experience. It was way to big, took too long to get from temple to temple, etc and was way too crowded and too much traffic

We loved Nara which would be too long a day for OP to visit from Okayama. I. would visit Osaka over Kyoto anytime, but especially during Sakura. We loved the boat ride along the river with cherry blossoms leaning over towards the river. We always include Osaka in our yearly Cherry Blossom visit. This year we are adding Hiroshima and Okayama to the mix also.

evergrn

I too find boring what most other visitors may find enchanting as it relates Kyoto. Not particularly keen on temples, museums and old things. Actually, I thought Kyoto was really cool the first one or two times, but it's no longer a place I care to spend much time in. However, that is just my outlier opinion and I try not to let that affect my recommendations to others visiting Jpn. Fact is, most visitors to Jpn love Kyoto (as does my wife). You have to be mindful of that. So I wholeheartedly tell people to visit Kyoto. You can present your opinion, but I'd be careful about making suggestions such as "avoid Kyoto."

abmj-jr

Frankly, it sounds like you are describing Osaka - big, crowded, traffic.

Well, to each his own. I suggest visiting Kyoto at some other time than the busiest, most crowded time of the year. And avoid the main tourist traps.

acregal

With the huge increase in tourism recently, most of the famous places in Kyoto are always crowded.

abmj-jr

Yep. I'm glad I visited most of those years ago. In more recent years I have been staying farther off the main tourist routes - Matsue and the San-in Coast, Tohoku, Hokkaido, Shokoku and so on. I never much cared for long lines.

There are some places that should be seen even if crowds must be endured but it is nice that there are still a few places the masses haven't yet found.

cruisr

I guess my friends and business associates are very much like me. I have three sets of friends/coworkers that have gone and come back with the same opinion I expressed. Yes, if you have time why not go and decide for yourself. If you have one day for a trip somewhere I would not choose Kyoto. My opinion is to avoid but as you say, that's just my opinion and everyone should decide for themselves.

evergrn

Fair enough. It's just curious to me that all these people you know unanimously regretted going to Kyoto. I thought I was the odd one, as most peple I know love Kyoto. As far as crowd goes, there's always a crowd at places like Kiyozimudera... but if you hate crowd, then surely you would still take Kyoto over Osaka. Central Osaka (particularly Shinsaibashi) is pure madness when it comes to crowd. With regards to the distance between temples, yes if you just plan to hit a few isolated highlights (eg, Inari Fushimi, then Kiyomizudera, then Kinkakuji), it will feel like Kyoto is difficult to negotiate but such way of touring wouldn't make sense. If you dedicate 1 day or 1/2 day to one particular area, then another 1/2 day to another particular area, then you can break Kyoto down into clusters of attractions that are all close together and then you wouldn't feel like you're traveling a long distance from one temple to the next.