evergrn

Well, I really don't get that impression at all about Kawasaki Station area. That whole area is now incredibly vibrant and, to me, there's nothing depressing about it. There's just so much there, and Lazona is awesome. So we can agree to disagree. Of course, not all of Kawasaki has been transformed. And I'm not prepared to say Kawasaki Station area is a good place to raise a family or anything... remember, we're just talking about a place to stay on a trip. But you can definitely put lipstick on a pig (take Musashi Kosugi, for instance).

5khours

Have to admit that Kawasaki is pretty high on my prejudicial list of places not to visit.

jib71

I suspect Pickles meant that you can't change the pig by putting lipstick on it. It's still a pig. I haven't been to Musashi Kosugi in years, but I feel pretty confident that you don't need to scratch too deep to find the old Musashi Kosugi...

gnaget

Kawasaki reminds of another "different" thing to do. Go to watch Keirin and gamble if you like. There is a velodrome in Kawasaki, which is probably the closest to central Tokyo.

If you go to western Kawasaki it is no different than any other suburban area. I drove through the area and have gone to sporting events where I played and once I went to watch Kawasaki Frontale play.

The Kawasaki that you are criticizing is possibly the industrial area along the waterfront but that extends up to Ota-ku and down to Yokohama. I think it is fascinating and there is even domestic tourism to visit old factories and so forth, especially at night. You get an impression of this area driving from Tokyo to Yokohama on the 1 Haneda route. Then if you take K5 across to Yokohama you get an incredible view of this area as well as across the bay to Yokohama. The road is usually empty so you can play "Wangan speedracer" if you like. Nissan GTR is optional equipment.

evergrn

Sorry, I realize that's what he meant and I didn't express it correctly. If you haven't been to Musashi Kosugi in years, you should go check it out. That area has changed a lot. It's a great area with tons of new developments and very convenient train access to a lot of places. The station complex there is posh, and you almost get the same type of vibe there as you would from Tama Plaza, for instance.

jib71

I was about to say that Tama Plaza is hardly a place that would blow anyone away, but on reflection I have been buffeted by some awfully strong cross-winds there.

[To be honest, it's years since I have visited Tama Plaza, so the above comment is for comedy value rather than serious opinion. Perhaps it's become an interesting place. I would be surprised, but ...]

evergrn

Tama Plaza is not a place where one gets blown away. What it is is a stylish development with a sleek station/shopping complex, cafes and expensive residences. I think Musashi Kosugi is getting there, although it'll take some more time. Musashi Kosugi is part of Kawasaki, btw.

jib71

I'll take your word on the transformation - It was a place I used to visit on business and it always struck me as cookie cutter and uninteresting - but Google shows me that they've tarted the station up. I often used to find myself walking at an angle into the wind as I crossed the open spaces. Hence my attempt at a joke (with a footnote for people from Swindon).

Pickles

Ah I see where you are coming from. That's a pretty low bar. Then I see your Tama Plaza and raise you a Funabashi Lalaport. Another soulless dump, if you ask me. I rather poke my eyes out with hot sticks than willingly head to Kawasaki, Tama Plaza, Musashi Kosugi, or anywhere else in that godforsaken ring of undifferentiated crud that is most of the outer Tokyo metro area.

jib71

So which places in outer Tokyo metro are not undifferentiated crud?

Let me set some arbitrary parameters -
- Outside the Yamanote line
- Within 30km of Nihonbashi as the karasu flies

You may include places that are crud (provided they're differentiated) or undifferentiated (but not crud)

I nominate Sangenjaya, Kichijojii, Shibamata, and Disney Land ...

evergrn

Okay, to each his own. You might say Tama Plaza and Musashi Kosugi are soulless (and I'm sure you'll say the same about Aobadai and Kohoku New Town as a whole). Fact is, these are all some of the more desirable areas in Kanto for younger Japanese families, albeit expensive. I too would love to live around there if I were to move back to Tokyo permanently. There's contemporary vibe, greenery, it's safe, there's good shopping and cafes, lots of facilities catered towards families. A gaijin acquaintance of mine shares your same feelings about what he calls cookie cutter communities of Tama Hills. So I'm not surprised that some people (esp westerners) may feel that way.

Kawasaki (talking about Kawasaki Station area) is a very different animal. Somehow we got sidetracked into talking about Tama Plaza. Kawasaski Station area is not fancy, maybe not on the top list of places to live, there's a little more homeless presence there, etc, etc. But it is very convenient, very vibrant, it has it all. So I suggested that it is a great place to consider for a repeat visitor to Tokyo who's looking for value hotel rates, good shopping/dining and convenience in terms of getting to places.

jib71

You brought it up in Post 50

Pickles

Therein lies the rub. I wouldn't live in any of those places if you paid me.

Pickles

Westward, I think it's all crud until you get to Takao-san, Ome, and Okutama. I love Okutama, really a nice place. Northward, all crap until Annakaharuna or closer to Nikko. Southward, you have to go all the way past Atami, into Izu-hanto before declaring victory. And East, it doesn't lose its cruddy patina until Narita town and beyond, although the Northeast angle at Mito and Tsukuba isn't too bad.

There are pockets here and there, of course. Nokogiryama in Chiba comes to mind, very neat, and Kamakura and the Enoshima area are quite nice.

mjm

I was half way through that paragraph when i started hearing your voice saying it. Nearly choked on my lunch with the laughter.

Kinda agree wholeheartedly.