esfox

Experienced Japan travelers, I need your help quickly.

Due to procrastination, I need to book a First Class Star Alliance Saver award w/ United to Asia by Jan. 31 to avoid drastic devaluation--but really by Jan. 26 EST, practically speaking due to my schedule.

Two of us are planning two or three destinations within 14 days, incl. travel from Boston in roughly early October. Singapore is a sure thing at the end, but Kyoto is our desired first destination with a possibility of Chiang Mai in the middle. I've been to Singapore several times and Bangkok twice. My companion has never been to Asia.

Ideally, there'd be F award seats to Osaka (KIX), but they are exceptionally rare, and all require 3 legs, incl. a (poorly reviewed) C segment on Air China. None in October(!), though the very end of Sept. may be acceptable outbound. There are a few options to Narita during October.

The questions: on a date where KIX is available, my calculation says flying to NRT + train travel is actually less than KIX + train travel by roughly two hours, and awaiting an NRT-KIX connection is about the same.

Assuming we each have a rolling carry-on and sizeable suitcase, is NRT even practical? Unlike others with a similar challenge, we are not intending to visit Tokyo, which disallows sending baggage ahead.

What are the exact steps, options and timing to get to Kyoto and then a centrally located hotel from NRT and from KIX, train by train by ground, etc? I can't find commentary on this on the web, just vague notice of "there are planes and bullet trains," more or less.

Not looking for sympathy here, just advice which seem like it could prove a significant hassle upon arrival. Might it be best to do Kyoto some other time with better FF saver availability?

Thanks!

jib71

Good. I'm fed up with whingers.
Depending on what site you're using to check award availability, it might not be giving you all of the options that are actually available to you. Try checking individual legs of these itineraries -
BOS - FRA - KIX (this is your fastest route, I think)
BOS - SFO (overnight stop) - KIX
BOS - IST - KIX (I don't recommend it)

Those are the most likely one-stop routes. After that you could consider flying via NRT to ITM (Osaka's domestic airport) or even to Nagoya, which is between Kyoto and Tokyo:

KIX - Kansai International airport - about 90 minutes by train from Kyoto
ITM - Osaka (Itami) airport - about 50 minutes from Kyoto by bus
UKB - Kobe airport - about 75 minutes from Kyoto by train
NGO - Centrair International airport (Nagoya) - about 2 hours from Kyoto by train

Try searching for the individual legs of these routes, for example:
BOS - IAD - NRT - ITM
BOS - YYZ - NRT - ITM
BOS - FRA - NGO

Sometimes you'll see an itinerary with a change of airports in Tokyo. You really want to avoid that. Don't accept any flight that leaves from HND (unless you fly into HND).

Travel between NRT and Kyoto takes a little under 5 hours by train. Taking a plane won't save much time. However, the train will cost you about 16,000 yen per person, whereas there's no incremental cost for the plane on an award ticket.

Unless you have some physical constraints, you can haul a rollaboard and larger suitcase by train. Larger suitcases won't fit into the overhead storage on the train to Kyoto, so you'll have to place them behind the last row of seats in the carriage. It can be done.
You can, of course, forward luggage to your hotel in Kyoto from NRT. It won't arrive same day, so you'll need to pack enough for your first night in your rollaboards.

There are many threads on this site that describe this route in detail. I recommend searching. To look up train times, I recommend you use Hyperdia
http://www.hyperdia.com

NewbieRunner

On which airline? If LH they don't usually release F award seats to *A partners more than 2 weeks in advance.

TK? I don't think they have F any more.

LH F award availability problem again. There's also the possibility LH flights FRA-NGO may become two class.

BTW all NH and LH flights between Germany and Japan will use HND after the end of March with the exception of LH FRA-KIX-NRT and NH DUS-NRT.

If the OP flies into HND, Kyoto is more accessible by train than from NRT. Also there will be more flights to ITM from HND.

ksandness

From KIX: Find the Haruka express train. Buy a ticket and board it. Get off at Kyoto Station. There are hotels in the immediate vicinity, but if you happen to reserve elsewhere, Kyoto is compact enough that a cab shouldn't set you back too much.

From NRT: You need to know two things about Tokyo. 1) NRT is 60 km (40 miles) outside the city. 2) Tokyo has no one "center," only several business districts that are clustered around major train stations.
From NRT, take the Narita Express (N'EX) to Shinagawa. Transfer to the next Hikari or Nozomi Shinkansen, all of which stop at Kyoto. Technically, you could transfer at Tokyo Station, but that's a maze, clearly signed, but perhaps a bit challenging for the jet-lagged first-time visitor.

If you hit the JR Service Center at NRT at a non-busy time, you can buy your N'EX and Shinkansen tickets together.

abmj-jr

KIX to Kyoto is MUCH faster than NRT-Kyoto but either can work.

At KIX, you board an airport deluxe train at a station right at the airport. The total ride to Kyoto via a couple of short stops in Osaka is about 75 minutes. At Kyoto Station, there are hotels, restaurants and tourist services as well as plentiful cabs to get to any hotel in the city. The airport train (called the Japan Rail "Haruka") is set up for travelers, with luggage racks in the entry to each car and overhead racks for small bags at each seat. Signage and announcements are in English and Japanese.

At NRT, you must first get into the city before boarding a train to Kyoto. That involves getting tickets and boarding one of the airport trains or limousine buses, most likely the Narita Express train, which is also set up for travelers, with luggage racks, "trolley dolly" concession service and English signage and announcements. The ride into Tokyo is a bit over an hour to Tokyo Station and a few minutes more to Shinagawa Station. We recommend Shinagawa as it is much easier to navigate. Once at either Tokyo or Shinagawa, you board a shinkansen "bullet train" to Kyoto, which will take 2-3/4 to 3-1/4 hours. You can purchase both tickets at the NRT rail station. Total time NRT-Kyoto, including transfer +/- 4-1/2 to 5 hours.

esfox

Quick update and a question:

I have found no alternative saver premium class availability (preferably FC since that's the award I cashed) from BOS to KIX or to ITM since my original reservation in January.

Lately, I've also been trying Nagoya--will try Kobe.

Flight lands at 3 PM. The question is, do we bother with one night in Tokyo? Our gut says no, but... Our elapsed time is also about 4 hours longer than usual due to an IAD layover:

[http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...-merged-3.html - posts #91-95, if interested]

Pros

• Only exposure to Tokyo on this 5-day trip. From what I hear, that may well be more of a tease than fun, esp. since it may a laggy night after travel.
• Doesn't require 2nd train trip to Kyoto after long traveling day and the train to Tokyo.

Cons

• Requires extra check in/out of hotel.
• Shinagawa hotel seems to make the most sense; decent location for one evening?
• If the point was to avoid post-flight train tix purchase and travel, taking the Express into Tokyo already violates that, even if only 1/4 of the trip duration to Kyoto.
• Jet lag may dampen the first night anyway.
  

We're leaning towards powering through it to Kyoto, but we're open to advice.

Thoughts? Perhaps other Star Alliance seats/routes may open up ~2 weeks before our October travel. Thanks!

Pureboy

To me the one night in Tokyo question depends on if you intend to return to Tokyo. It is obviously the most accessible Japanese city from the US, and thus as easy as most any city in Asia to get to from the East Coast. If you'd return at some point in, say, the next 5 years (arbitrary, I know), I would probably tack on a night somewhere else- Kobe, or Osaka?

In terms of where to stay, for one night I'd pick the best location to see as much nearby and minimize travel time.

Shinagawa is easier to get in-out of from the shinkansen (bullet train), but I would consider the Tokyo Station area because it has a decent shopping center built in and is within walking distance to Imperial Palace, Hibiya Park, Ginza, and even Tsukiji fish market if jet lag is hitting you hard (but I would take a cab there). Also lots of convenient metro access if you are more ambitious. I don't know about night life though, if that is important to you. On the con side, Tokyo Station is huge and not so simple to navigate, and while that area of Tokyo isn't that hard to negotiate, you'd at least need a good map and a plan. Other areas to consider with lots of things to do nearby would be Shinjuku, Shibuya, or Ueno. Do some googling and see what appeals to you.

evergrn

Your flight arrives early enough in the day to allow you to get to Kyoto at a decent time (should get there by ~8pm). Plus you said Kyoto is your place of interest and you now state that your gut says no Tokyo. So I'd just plow on ahead to Kyoto that same day.

Part of the equation is how many nights will you have in Jpn. If you only have, say 4 nights, and Kyoto is a big highlight for you, then all the more important to maximize your precious time in Kyoto by going straight on to Kyoto... this allows one additional full day in Kyoto and reduces the trouble of an extra hotel check in/out.

I used to do BOS-(layover)->NRT, then via train that same evening onto Kofu. Kofu and Kyoto are not too different time-wise from NRT. And, for me, BOS-NRT was always in Y. I think you'll be fine.

I'd suggest transferring from NEx to bullet train in Shinagawa instead of Tokyo Sta. Also, you should try to request the rearmost seat on the bullet train, so that you can tuck your suitcases in the space behind the seat. NEx has a dedicated rack area for suitcases.

beep88

why not use luggage delivery and save the trouble of hauling all those huge bags around train stations and trains? They will arrive the next morning. Costs under 20USD per piece.