Perche

I don't know the ones in Florence, but like Rome, Venice, and other big towns with lots of tourists, it's extremely hard to find gelato there.

In addition to the signs that mromalley mentioned, another obvious sign of ice cream is if the gelato is piled very high, and extends much higher than the height of the bin it is in. Gelato is much more dense than milk, and would collapse of it's own weight down to about the height of the bin, or just a few inches higher. Giant swirls of gelato extending high above the bin is a dead give away of powder flavored, artificially colored ice cream, full of artificial materials to give it the density to stand up in huge swirls.

Gelato in a bin is almost always real gelato. Gelato is colder than ice cream, but melts much easier because of the lack of chemicals. It's why it tastes so much better, because once it hits your tongue it melts right away, yielding a burst of flavor. Biting into a cold, mango gelato feels like you just bit into a great mango. Gelato would just settle if they put more in than a few inches higher than the bin. Since it must be kept colder, the most efficient way to do it is to put it in a metal bin with a cover. That keeps it fresh and cool, and keeps it from melting. If you see it stored that way, you are almost certain to be eating gelato, not ice cream.

The only caveat is places like Grom. Grom does serve gelato, not ice cream, but it is not "home made" in the store. As a huge chain, even with branches in NYC, Malibu, Tokyo, and Paris, they make their gelato in a factory, then ship it. Still, it is gelato, but mediocre gelato. It's a safe bet though.

As for the places you mentioned, such as Vivoli in Florence, I've never been there. It might be legitimate. As with Grom, I'm a little less enthusiastic because they are a chain and even sell gelato in Macy's department store in NYC. In Florence, people wheel around carts in the parks and in the street selling Vivoli gelato. That doesn't square away well with the artisan making his or her fresh gelato in the store every morning. But I'm pretty sure it's gelato, not ice cream, just factory made.

As for Carabe, if the owner of the apartment recommended it, it should be crossed off of the list, just the same as if it was recommended by a concierge. You almost never get a good recommendation from them for food, or anything to eat. You can, but it is unusual. They usually just send you to their friend's store, or to a place that they think an American would like, which is usually an ice cream shop. Also, it's very hard to find real gelato or anything good to eat at a tourist site such as near the Duomo. Finally, if it's recommended by TripAdvisor, it almost certainly has to be bad because the people writing reviews almost never have been to Italy before, and have no experience.

The first three pictures are of fake gelato. The next four are of gelato. One of them, the one being scooped out of bins, is Carapina in Florence. Always a good sign to see bins.

obscure2k

So, the tiny gelato shop in my neighborhood was the real deal. Unfortunately, it only lasted a few months, due to terrible parking situation. The gelato was in bins and looked exactly like the authentic ones you show. Each flavor was delicious and often quite creative.

senzer

What a helpful post! Can't wait to visit these on my next trip.

Does any similar list exist for food in Rome and/or Florence. Having trouble finding an organized list of authentic places...

obscure2k

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/italy...lace-rome.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/italy...er-thread.html

sinfonia

Marco Ottavio was exactly like your fourth picture. You had no idea what it looked like because it was in a large metal canister covered with a lid. But it was delicious!

As for Vivoli, it was on the list you referenced in your original post here, so I think it is the "real deal," but that is very interesting about the carts in the parks selling Vivoli gelato. I never noticed that!

I'm a little embarrassed to say that we also, though, really enjoyed the raspberry gelato at Da Nico in Venice and I'm guessing they were not the real deal since you're in Venice and said it was so difficult to get true gelato there.

Anyway, it's a great thread. I'm in the middle of planning a Spain trip, but this thread makes me long to visit Italy once again sometime soon!

ShopAround

I like Vivoli - their gelato is in metal containers and not piled sky high, always a good sign (and the banana is a pale beige-gray color, not bright yellow from food coloring). I was pretty excited when they opened here in NYC.

Also, the restaurant in Macy's next to the Vivoli counter, Stella 34 Trattoria, is pretty good. When I'm missing Italy and don't feel like battling the crowds at Eataly, that's where I go for pizza and gelato.

Perche

That sounds very good. After it was pointed out to me by Sinfonia I did see that Vivoli made the Disappore list, at around #76 or so, which is pretty good, considering that there are over 36,000 places offering gelato in Italy. I was taken aback because I had read an article about it opening in Macy's, on Herald Square in Manhattan. But it seems legitimate.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1295533

http://www.dissapore.com/piccola-not...ro-dei-gelati/
An abstract of the article, "“Offriremo la stessa qualitŕ di Firenze, producendo sul posto i nostri gelati con ingredienti sia italiani (nocciola, pistacchio, cacao) che locali – ci dice Silvana Vivoli direttamente dalla Grande Mela, dove si trova da qualche mese per organizzare l’apertura – perchč bisogna sfatare il mito che anche qui negli States non sia possibile trovare prodotti di alta qualitŕ come la frutta di stagione”.

(We offer the same quality as in our store in Florence, producing our gelato with italian type ingredients, but locally sourced, says Silvana Vivoli director of the place in the Big Apple, because we need to end the myth that in the USA it is not possible to find high quality products like seasonal fruit.)

"Una primavera di rinascita per il gelato italiano sul difficile mercato della metropoli americana, dopo la chiusura del primo, storico, negozio di Grom lo scorso autunno."
(This is a Spring of rebirth for gelato in Metropolitan America after the closure of the first, historic gelateria Grom last Autumn).

snic

Actually, the reason why people eat bad ice cream (and other sweet, fatty foods) and say it's amazing is because we are predisposed by nature and genetics to sweet, fatty foods. What's great about a really good dessert (or, for that matter, any other food) is not its fat or sugar content, but the complexity, harmony and originality of its flavors. But that's a cognitive, intellectual pleasure. On an entirely different level, our brains respond to sugar and fat with an instant, overwhelming "I like it". That's why food manufacturers have been increasing the calorie content of the foods they sell for the last few decades.

By the way, thanks for the link to the article - this will be very helpful for my family's upcoming trip to Italy!

sinfonia

I happen to be in NYC this week so Googled Vivoli to find the address and visit, but came across this Yelp page stating that Vivoli is closed. Does anyone know if it has moved or is just non-existent?

https://www.yelp.com/biz/vivoli-gelateria-new-york

Perche

It's open. It closed for a few months, but it's now open, sold inside of a restaurant in Macy's that I think is called Stella 34, or something like that. You can get it if you eat at the restaurant, but they also sell it to go, so you can buy a cup and eat it outside the restaurant.

ShopAround

The Yelp page is wrong. Perche is correct, Vivoli is still there and the restaurant is Stella 34. You can see they have Vivoli Il Gelato on their menu.

https://www.patinagroup.com/stella-34/menu

sinfonia

Thanks for the information. I'm glad to know it is still there. I admit that I was slightly deterred from visiting Vivoli NYC after reading the Yelp page which consistently reported the gelato sweeter than it should be/than at the Vivoli in Florence. I will likely try it for my own comparison, though, when I return in a few weeks.

If only I was enjoying it at the one in Florence in a few weeks . . .

kasmersensei

Our friend in Milan steered us to a better brand of gelati at the supermarket. It was more expensive, but as she pointed out, tasted a lot better. I will have to ask her the name of the brand again...

KLouis

@kasmersensei

Better than...?
More expensive than...?
Which supermarket where...?

snic

Does anyone have any favorite gelato shops in the rest of Tuscany (other than Florence)? In particular, in Pienza, Volterra, Arezzo and anywhere roughly in or near the triangle formed by them (including Siena)?